the atmosphere here....

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the atmosphere here....

Post by ballongiraf on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:21 am

OK, for the sake of my sanity i have to ask this question. Im not asking this to point fingers or place guilt, but rather in the hope of a constructive discussion.

How many of you have given up on the hoax?
How many of you still firmly believe in the hoax?

I, myself, have never been more convinced that MJ is alive than i am right now. IMO, more and more are pointing in that direction, the postponed tribute being the latest one. But at the same time i get the vibe from a lot of people here that they've given up deep down, but stay around in the hope that we'll get another amazing clue soon that'll restore their faith.
If i look at the posts and threads made before sept 3rd, and the posts and threads made after sept 3rd, i see a huge difference. Am i the only one?
The vibe i get from the board these days is a very defeatist attitude. Instead of starting or answering to threads pertaining to the hoax, we have people talking about virtually everything else. When interesting things show up (like the picture myself and swet1) posted a few days ago (a pic of a man that kinda looked like MJ), all the responses were like "nah.. he's too young" ,or "nah, he'd never go to his own burial - too risky". Now, im not mad that people didnt think it was MJ, but im AM stunned that we couldn't at least entertain the idea long enough to research, study the burial video to see if the person was present before we decided that it wasnt him. Had that pic been posted before the burial, im 100% sure we would've investigated the pic. Also, how come it was in NO way possible that the man in the pic could be MJ, yet people still entertain the idea that hat man, the woman at the memorial or dave dave is MJ? How come people think it's plausible that MJ would turn up at his own memorial, but that it'd be too risky to show up at his own burial? Again, the defeatist attitude im talking about.
To be perfectly honest, im at point where i dont post my findings, theories and thoughts here because i feel like they wont be taken seriously. Again, i didnt say that to offend anyone - but that's truly how i feel.

Can we please just talk and say what's on our minds? If people think he's gone, then fine. Im not here to persuade people to believe what i believe - but cant we at least agree to be honest about our feelings?

What DO you think? Have you, or have you not given up? You dont have to justify yourself, - just be honest when answering the question.


Last edited by ballongiraf on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by Smelly on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:24 am

I believe 100% that he IS alive!!!!!!!

I ain't gonna give up! Thanks for posting this Ballon, it will be interesting to see what other people think.
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by phoenix on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:24 am

i do believe more than EVER right now
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by WanaBstartnSthn on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:27 am

I will be honest. My feelings change day to day. All day I will be telling ppl "Michael is alive! Dont believe what the media is telling/showing u!" Then later on or may be the next day I'll feel really sad like maybe we are chasing after something that may not be real. I want to believe he is still alive and truthfully there are a lot more events and facts pointing towards him being alive than not. Only time will tell....
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by DreamChild on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:33 am

~I Believe In Four Things Very Strongly :

1.) God

2.) Michael

3.) Magic

4.) LOVE


~Michael Is Alive!~

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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by phoenix on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:34 am

and i want to add something- 2,5 month have passed now since 25 June and i think its just locigal that at the beginning people acted like high searching for evidence and discussing everything- i guess now most of us calmed a bit down and we are stressed- thats why i think ppl are not going all crazy about new things coming up like they did month ago...maybe because most of us understand that Michael would not come back that soon- i am sure it will take time till we see him again
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by ballongiraf on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:35 am

another thing that baffles me is when i see people, who say they believe MJ is alive, having pics of MJ with angel wings, halos and the 1958-2009 written in their signature.

Im sorry, but why put that in your sig if you're convinced he's alive?

Again, not out to offend anyone, just posting a thought...
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by just_friend on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:38 am

My believe is STRONG!!! He is alive! And I have never changed my mind!!! I believe my heart!!!
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:48 am

Here's how I feel. I LOVE the investigation. I love the fact that he IS ALIVE somewhere. I love trying to figure things out.

But the fact is, for me....Im tired. It seems that even with ALL the flippin research and discoveries we've made...we've gotten no where. We still dont know WTF is going on. Its getting pointless sometimes....we all thought that he may have popped up by now....but I think the "burial" was kind of a finality for alot of people. We're running out of clues ya know?

Im still gonna come here, even thoguh I was giving up 10 mins ago...I just dont know what to think anymore. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back?

Its NOT KNOWING that is draining me. If we knew he wasnt coming back and we had hard facts of this, then I would give it up and accept it...MJ "died" for reasons we'll never know... BUT nothing adds up, SO for me he IS ALIVE and MAY come back....but when? It could be 10 yrs from now. It could be tomorrow...who knows....

It just gets to be alot sometimes.

You guys are all super cool chicks and I will keep coming here, but I dont know how I'll feel from one day to the next....
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by Another.Part.Of.Me on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:50 am

I agree with Ballon 100% and all the people who know me on this site know and have remarked that I don't post on here any more. The defeatist attitude is pathetic [You know I don't mince my words either].

WAKE UP!!

From what I have seen, I'd say that 80-90% or more of the members here have given up deep deep down. They'll come out and say 'I believe 100%' but their actions don't back up their words and it's plain for all to see. I don't mean to insult anyone but it's just how I feel from observing the forum over the past 2 weeks.

There's little to no research, there are threads about all sorts of random crap which have nothing to do with anything.
If we review the board over the past few weeks, this is what has been on here:
- Pointless arguments,
- unbelievable gullibility,
- dark clouds,
- depression,
- BS,
- timewasting,
- trolling etc.
The list could go on.

I - and this is my personal opinion only - think that all those who have given up should go to Memorial sites and weep there with the rest of the mainstream fans because the atmosphere on here has turned this once productive serious board into a farce and it's a crappy place to be. The vibes on here, the hysteria, the complete and utter lack of response is disheartening.

It's like the forum has committed intellectual-suicide. You guys don't believe he died but any little thing from TMZ et al that happens turns this place into chaos and hysteria?
Does anyone see the contradiction in that?

It's just so frustrating and stifling being on here. It's like people have given up any and all serious research or finding out things.

Something else that has angered me beyond anything is that one of the best researchers on here and one of the smartest people I have met and a good friend of mine has left because of things said about her for giving her opinion.
I don't post my findings on here anymore, I don't see why I should. It doesn't lead to debate or intelligent conversation. And I'm probably going to be lynched for giving my opinion here too.

This is all my personal opinion, it is said in the best of faith and I don't mean to offend anyone but I can only say what I see and that is what I have seen and felt over the past weeks on here.
xoxo
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by ballongiraf on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:54 am

phoenix wrote:and i want to add something- 2,5 month have passed now since 25 June and i think its just locigal that at the beginning people acted like high searching for evidence and discussing everything- i guess now most of us calmed a bit down and we are stressed- thats why i think ppl are not going all crazy about new things coming up like they did month ago...maybe because most of us understand that Michael would not come back that soon- i am sure it will take time till we see him again

i understand your point.
I think we're in a vicious circle right now. We dont discuss things, we get stressed, we have all the "what if"thoughs, then we get more stressed etc....
Now i, for one, think that going back to what we're here for - researching the hoax and focusing on the hoax and the inconsistencies, rather than all the other stuff we talk about here would actually HELP the mood. Once you see the inconsistencies, the lies, the wtf moments, it really becomes clear that it is a hoax - but you gotta go back to work to see this. You cant just sit around doing nothing and expect the truth to fall into your lap...
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by phoenix on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:55 am

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Here's how I feel. I LOVE the investigation. I love the fact that he IS ALIVE somewhere. I love trying to figure things out.

But the fact is, for me....Im tired. It seems that even with ALL the flippin research and discoveries we've made...we've gotten no where. We still dont know WTF is going on. Its getting pointless sometimes....we all thought that he may have popped up by now....but I think the "burial" was kind of a finality for alot of people. We're running out of clues ya know?

Im still gonna come here, even thoguh I was giving up 10 mins ago...I just dont know what to think anymore. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back?

Its NOT KNOWING that is draining me. If we knew he wasnt coming back and we had hard facts of this, then I would give it up and accept it...MJ "died" for reasons we'll never know... BUT nothing adds up, SO for me he IS ALIVE and MAY come back....but when? It could be 10 yrs from now. It could be tomorrow...who knows....

It just gets to be alot sometimes.

You guys are all super cool chicks and I will keep coming here, but I dont know how I'll feel from one day to the next....


this is what i mean- we have gotten nowhere...and i think its clear that i am not coming on this forum as often as i did 1 month ago because i need to live my own life too- i neglected a lot things over past weeks and months and i dont want to wake up one day after years and say to myself- we still do not know anything- as i said i believe he is alive but maybe he never comes back...should i never live my life the way it was before? of course not- i have only one life to live and i want enjoy it and not spend 24h a day investigating and being stressed, not know whats actually going on

this is my opinion on that

i love ppl i talk to on this forum and this is what keeps me coming on here
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by Harleyblonde on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:56 am

I will be VERY surprised if Michael is really dead, it is a possibility but I think he is alive as there are not one or two inconsistencies but many. I think we will probably never find out for sure. Maybe the solution and answer is so simple we cannot see it-we have to keep on looking for clues. Of all the people I know and speak to every day the number of people who think he is alive greatly outnumber those who think he is dead, even the Tesco delivery guy who came while I had an MJ DVD on, the first words he said on entering was "he isnt dead" Took me by surprise. I asked him what he meant he said it was flipping obvious. Makes you think eh?
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:59 am

Farah,

I TOTALLY understand you girlfriend!!!

It does seem though that ever since "another" website started going down the crapper, this is when all the negativity started too.

I told Rachel this and I dont mind telling. I said to her that she needs to shut the site down "for maintenance" or whatever for a day or two and let people get some rest and rejuvinate. She didnt say wether she will or not, but it was just a thought.
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by phoenix on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:02 am

yes Farah, we have to deal with trolls and drama and insuling more than ever and thats what stops me from posting very very often because i always think "why the hell should i post something and then ppl gonna start circus again" so why?
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by ilprincipe on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:02 am

I believe he's still alive...
but it's getting more difficult day by day....
some proofs really convince me...some ciircumstances confusing me....

If I make a comparison, than there are still more "proofs" for me, that he's still
alive and not dead....-only to mention one thing: "If murray admitted to gave MJ
too much propofol...and if you believe the media, he admitted that-
why hasn't he been charged yet? Why isn't he at least remanded in custody?
To explore the Jackson Clan...that's too complex...we'll never read their minds...
Some posts from some users are encouraging me....
on MJHD souza's posts...and here mostly the posts of human_nature.....


==dead=============confused=======I======alive
here I am right now
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by DreamChild on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:04 am

~I Love the Picture of Michael with Angel Wings!~

~I Believe that he is an Angel~

~With a Special Job to do~

~Sent by God~

~I don't Believe for one Moment that he is "d--d"

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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by ballongiraf on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:05 am

phoenix wrote:
THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Here's how I feel. I LOVE the investigation. I love the fact that he IS ALIVE somewhere. I love trying to figure things out.

But the fact is, for me....Im tired. It seems that even with ALL the flippin research and discoveries we've made...we've gotten no where. We still dont know WTF is going on. Its getting pointless sometimes....we all thought that he may have popped up by now....but I think the "burial" was kind of a finality for alot of people. We're running out of clues ya know?

Im still gonna come here, even thoguh I was giving up 10 mins ago...I just dont know what to think anymore. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back?

Its NOT KNOWING that is draining me. If we knew he wasnt coming back and we had hard facts of this, then I would give it up and accept it...MJ "died" for reasons we'll never know... BUT nothing adds up, SO for me he IS ALIVE and MAY come back....but when? It could be 10 yrs from now. It could be tomorrow...who knows....

It just gets to be alot sometimes.

You guys are all super cool chicks and I will keep coming here, but I dont know how I'll feel from one day to the next....


this is what i mean- we have gotten nowhere...and i think its clear that i am not coming on this forum as often as i did 1 month ago because i need to live my own life too- i neglected a lot things over past weeks and months and i dont want to wake up one day after years and say to myself- we still do not know anything- as i said i believe he is alive but maybe he never comes back...should i never live my life the way it was before? of course not- i have only one life to live and i want enjoy it and not spend 24h a day investigating and being stressed, not know whats actually going on

this is my opinion on that

i love ppl i talk to on this forum and this is what keeps me coming on here

sweetheart, what had you expected? (and i mean that in the kindest possible way). The man hoaxed his death for a reason. He didnt hoax it so that fans on this board could have the case solved within 2½ months. If that were his goal, then he'd chosen a less complicated path, i think - like being really sick or something. But when you choose to hoax your death, you have a very solid reason. You can be sure that we won't solve this case before he wants us to. Why investigate, then? Because there ARE inconsistencies, because his family and friends ARE acting weird, because investigating keeps hope going. I personally think that all the inconsistencies are there to show us - those who really takes time to research - that he's alive. For those, who dont pay attention, it'll look like he's gone = he wins.
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by dunno_it on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:05 am

Pointless arguments,
- unbelievable gullibility,
- dark clouds,
- depression,
- BS,
- timewasting,
- trolling etc.
The list could go on.
Couldn't agree more. can we somehow fix it?
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by StenniZ on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:09 am

ballongiraf wrote:another thing that baffles me is when i see people, who say they believe MJ is alive, having pics of MJ with angel wings, halos and the 1958-2009 written in their signature.

Im sorry, but why put that in your sig if you're convinced he's alive?

Again, not out to offend anyone, just posting a thought...

I've noticed this too and think it's a bit weird. But on the other hand, this is a very good example of why MJ could have started the hoax. It's all about looking past the obvious, not taking everything we hear and read for granted as the truth. I think the majority worldwide will assume MJ really died. Not because they are ignorant, but because they only hear and read mainstream news and reports. For instance: someone without an internet-connection, will most likely believe he's dead. They don't KNOW he is, but merely accept this as a fact, since it was on the news. So we can't blame them. This situation has been the way it is, ever since the media exist. (so thank God for the Internet!).

I'm having a little trouble, making my point here, but what I'm trying to say is that we are so acustomed to 'believing' the media, that even hoax-believers still use pics of MJ with wings, like you said. In my opinion this would be a big part of why MJ would pull this hoax. Hope you get what I'm tryin' to say. Smile

I myself had huge doubts and questionmarks regarding the Tribute. To me it seemed impossible to organize it on such short notice. But still in a way I believed it was going to happen.....against my own better judgment and common sense.

It's a bit like Neo in The Matrix. After Morpheus and his crew free him from the Matrix, they show him the real world, he sees the plugs on his body, he is trained in several types of martial arts and performs some incredible (in reality inmpossible) moves.....he still can't get his own mind to believe the truth.

So I can very well understand how some members use pics of MJ with wings. Wink (no offence!!!!)

Oh and by the way.........I STILL BELIEVE! Probably even more than before!
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by phoenix on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:09 am

ballongiraf wrote:
phoenix wrote:
THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Here's how I feel. I LOVE the investigation. I love the fact that he IS ALIVE somewhere. I love trying to figure things out.

But the fact is, for me....Im tired. It seems that even with ALL the flippin research and discoveries we've made...we've gotten no where. We still dont know WTF is going on. Its getting pointless sometimes....we all thought that he may have popped up by now....but I think the "burial" was kind of a finality for alot of people. We're running out of clues ya know?

Im still gonna come here, even thoguh I was giving up 10 mins ago...I just dont know what to think anymore. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back?

Its NOT KNOWING that is draining me. If we knew he wasnt coming back and we had hard facts of this, then I would give it up and accept it...MJ "died" for reasons we'll never know... BUT nothing adds up, SO for me he IS ALIVE and MAY come back....but when? It could be 10 yrs from now. It could be tomorrow...who knows....

It just gets to be alot sometimes.

You guys are all super cool chicks and I will keep coming here, but I dont know how I'll feel from one day to the next....


this is what i mean- we have gotten nowhere...and i think its clear that i am not coming on this forum as often as i did 1 month ago because i need to live my own life too- i neglected a lot things over past weeks and months and i dont want to wake up one day after years and say to myself- we still do not know anything- as i said i believe he is alive but maybe he never comes back...should i never live my life the way it was before? of course not- i have only one life to live and i want enjoy it and not spend 24h a day investigating and being stressed, not know whats actually going on

this is my opinion on that

i love ppl i talk to on this forum and this is what keeps me coming on here

sweetheart, what had you expected? (and i mean that in the kindest possible way). The man hoaxed his death for a reason. He didnt hoax it so that fans on this board could have the case solved within 2½ months. If that were his goal, then he'd chosen a less complicated path, i think - like being really sick or something. But when you choose to hoax your death, you have a very solid reason. You can be sure that we won't solve this case before he wants us to. Why investigate, then? Because there ARE inconsistencies, because his family and friends ARE acting weird, because investigating keeps hope going. I personally think that all the inconsistencies are there to show us - those who really takes time to research - that he's alive. For those, who dont pay attention, it'll look like he's gone = he wins.

i am not sure if i explained myself really well- i did not said that i expect him to show up somewhere in the next minute and i posted often enough that i think he has some good reason to do what he did and i would love to know one day the whys and hows
BUT
i dont want to forget my own life over this hoax and i think the reason why i dont want is quite clear lol


Last edited by phoenix on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by jpresley on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:11 am

ballongiraf wrote:another thing that baffles me is when i see people, who say they believe MJ is alive, having pics of MJ with angel wings, halos and the 1958-2009 written in their signature.

Im sorry, but why put that in your sig if you're convinced he's alive?

Again, not out to offend anyone, just posting a thought...

Exactly Ballon! I have been wanting to get an MJ t-shirt, but absolutely refuse to buy anything depicting 1958-2009.

While I admit that I do get sad at times because we don't know exactly what is happening or when MJ will return, I ABSOLUTELY, UNEQUIVOCABLY BELIEVE THAT MICHAEL IS ALIVE!!!
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:12 am

dunno_it wrote: Pointless arguments,
- unbelievable gullibility,
- dark clouds,
- depression,
- BS,
- timewasting,
- trolling etc.
The list could go on.
Couldn't agree more. can we somehow fix it?


I think we CAN fix it. EAT CHOCOLATE!!!!

Seriously...I think we all need to take a break...all of us together. Dont even LOG in here over the weekend....and promise not to go to MJHD cus that would do you no good.

WE ALL NEED A BREAK!!!....Im serious. We'll come back on Monday , fresh and new.

As for the trolls. Ignore them. What theyre to upset people ARE JUST WORDS....words can hurt ALOT, but just ignore them. If you feed intot heir hatred then they will just get worse. Get my drift? LOL
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by flory24 on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:12 am

until I see a dead body , to me Michael is alive
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by ballongiraf on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:14 am

phoenix wrote:
ballongiraf wrote:
phoenix wrote:
THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Here's how I feel. I LOVE the investigation. I love the fact that he IS ALIVE somewhere. I love trying to figure things out.

But the fact is, for me....Im tired. It seems that even with ALL the flippin research and discoveries we've made...we've gotten no where. We still dont know WTF is going on. Its getting pointless sometimes....we all thought that he may have popped up by now....but I think the "burial" was kind of a finality for alot of people. We're running out of clues ya know?

Im still gonna come here, even thoguh I was giving up 10 mins ago...I just dont know what to think anymore. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back?

Its NOT KNOWING that is draining me. If we knew he wasnt coming back and we had hard facts of this, then I would give it up and accept it...MJ "died" for reasons we'll never know... BUT nothing adds up, SO for me he IS ALIVE and MAY come back....but when? It could be 10 yrs from now. It could be tomorrow...who knows....

It just gets to be alot sometimes.

You guys are all super cool chicks and I will keep coming here, but I dont know how I'll feel from one day to the next....


this is what i mean- we have gotten nowhere...and i think its clear that i am not coming on this forum as often as i did 1 month ago because i need to live my own life too- i neglected a lot things over past weeks and months and i dont want to wake up one day after years and say to myself- we still do not know anything- as i said i believe he is alive but maybe he never comes back...should i never live my life the way it was before? of course not- i have only one life to live and i want enjoy it and not spend 24h a day investigating and being stressed, not know whats actually going on

this is my opinion on that

i love ppl i talk to on this forum and this is what keeps me coming on here

sweetheart, what had you expected? (and i mean that in the kindest possible way). The man hoaxed his death for a reason. He didnt hoax it so that fans on this board could have the case solved within 2½ months. If that were his goal, then he'd chosen a less complicated path, i think - like being really sick or something. But when you choose to hoax your death, you have a very solid reason. You can be sure that we won't solve this case before he wants us to. Why investigate, then? Because there ARE inconsistencies, because his family and friends ARE acting weird, because investigating keeps hope going. I personally think that all the inconsistencies are there to show us - those who really takes time to research - that he's alive. For those, who dont pay attention, it'll look like he's gone = he wins.

i am not sure if i explained myself really well- i did not said that i expect him to show up somewhere in the next minute and i posted often enough that i think he has some good reason to do what he did and i would love to know one day the whys and hows
BUT
i dont want to forget my own life over this hoax and i think the reason why i dont want is quite clear lol

LOL, it's ok. Im not expecting anyone to devote all their time here. Not at all. I wanna live my life too. I perfectly understand you. I guess what im saying is that i'd wish people would spend the time they do spend here on the hoax, and not on the gold pants thread, for instance.

you know?
It's not about how much time you spend here, it's how you spend it, IMO
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by phoenix on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:16 am

ballongiraf wrote:
phoenix wrote:
ballongiraf wrote:
phoenix wrote:
THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Here's how I feel. I LOVE the investigation. I love the fact that he IS ALIVE somewhere. I love trying to figure things out.

But the fact is, for me....Im tired. It seems that even with ALL the flippin research and discoveries we've made...we've gotten no where. We still dont know WTF is going on. Its getting pointless sometimes....we all thought that he may have popped up by now....but I think the "burial" was kind of a finality for alot of people. We're running out of clues ya know?

Im still gonna come here, even thoguh I was giving up 10 mins ago...I just dont know what to think anymore. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back?

Its NOT KNOWING that is draining me. If we knew he wasnt coming back and we had hard facts of this, then I would give it up and accept it...MJ "died" for reasons we'll never know... BUT nothing adds up, SO for me he IS ALIVE and MAY come back....but when? It could be 10 yrs from now. It could be tomorrow...who knows....

It just gets to be alot sometimes.

You guys are all super cool chicks and I will keep coming here, but I dont know how I'll feel from one day to the next....


this is what i mean- we have gotten nowhere...and i think its clear that i am not coming on this forum as often as i did 1 month ago because i need to live my own life too- i neglected a lot things over past weeks and months and i dont want to wake up one day after years and say to myself- we still do not know anything- as i said i believe he is alive but maybe he never comes back...should i never live my life the way it was before? of course not- i have only one life to live and i want enjoy it and not spend 24h a day investigating and being stressed, not know whats actually going on

this is my opinion on that

i love ppl i talk to on this forum and this is what keeps me coming on here

sweetheart, what had you expected? (and i mean that in the kindest possible way). The man hoaxed his death for a reason. He didnt hoax it so that fans on this board could have the case solved within 2½ months. If that were his goal, then he'd chosen a less complicated path, i think - like being really sick or something. But when you choose to hoax your death, you have a very solid reason. You can be sure that we won't solve this case before he wants us to. Why investigate, then? Because there ARE inconsistencies, because his family and friends ARE acting weird, because investigating keeps hope going. I personally think that all the inconsistencies are there to show us - those who really takes time to research - that he's alive. For those, who dont pay attention, it'll look like he's gone = he wins.

i am not sure if i explained myself really well- i did not said that i expect him to show up somewhere in the next minute and i posted often enough that i think he has some good reason to do what he did and i would love to know one day the whys and hows
BUT
i dont want to forget my own life over this hoax and i think the reason why i dont want is quite clear lol

LOL, it's ok. Im not expecting anyone to devote all their time here. Not at all. I wanna live my life too. I perfectly understand you. I guess what im saying is that i'd wish people would spend the time they do spend here on the hoax, and not on the gold pants thread, for instance.

you know?
It's not about how much time you spend here, it's how you spend it, IMO

lol actually is GP thead the only thread where no one causes drama and trolls around- strange, no? hahaha
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by StenniZ on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:17 am

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Here's how I feel. I LOVE the investigation. I love the fact that he IS ALIVE somewhere. I love trying to figure things out.

But the fact is, for me....Im tired. It seems that even with ALL the flippin research and discoveries we've made...we've gotten no where. We still dont know WTF is going on. Its getting pointless sometimes....we all thought that he may have popped up by now....but I think the "burial" was kind of a finality for alot of people. We're running out of clues ya know?

Im still gonna come here, even thoguh I was giving up 10 mins ago...I just dont know what to think anymore. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back?

Its NOT KNOWING that is draining me. If we knew he wasnt coming back and we had hard facts of this, then I would give it up and accept it...MJ "died" for reasons we'll never know... BUT nothing adds up, SO for me he IS ALIVE and MAY come back....but when? It could be 10 yrs from now. It could be tomorrow...who knows....

It just gets to be alot sometimes.

You guys are all super cool chicks and I will keep coming here, but I dont know how I'll feel from one day to the next....

I don't mean to crush any hope, and I do think we should keep on investigating, but in my opinion, the only reason we did not yet solve the hoax or prove anything, is because MJ would not have wanted us to do so. What would be the point of creating this hoax, if a group of people would solve it in a couple of months. As much as I would like him to return tomorrow, I do believe that the hoax is aimed a a very important goal, which will have implications on the entire world (exposing the corrupt, lying media). Right now for instance the tabloids are making fools of themselves, just like many socalled friends, familymembers, corrupt/drugsprescribing doctors and all those other posers. But in order for MJ to 'catch the really big fish'....I reckon he needs more time for all of them to bite, so he can later scoop them up in one swift move......aka HIS RETURN!

Just my two cents on the matter. Smile

Keep the Faith!
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by Rach on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:22 am

Ok, I know I'm not supposed to be online right now but I feel like I have to add my own two cents about this topic.

I will be the first person to admit that the atmosphere on the board has gone downhill. I notice this because I have a lot of "cleaning up" to do, so to speak after everything explodes. However, not everyone who has posted on this topic is 100% innocent and even people with the best intentions can drive others away and make the believers not want to be here anymore. I know because I have had conversations with members about this.

I think EVERYONE gets overheated at times, whether this be the original members or new people who believe Michael to be dead and sometimes when we don't mean to be we can say things that are nasty or not very pleasant. I am taking more time out to think about things before I post them and how they may be perceived and I think others should as well.
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by phoenix on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:25 am

Rach wrote:Ok, I know I'm not supposed to be online right now but I feel like I have to add my own two cents about this topic.

I will be the first person to admit that the atmosphere on the board has gone downhill. I notice this because I have a lot of "cleaning up" to do, so to speak after everything explodes. However, not everyone who has posted on this topic is 100% innocent and even people with the best intentions can drive others away and make the believers not want to be here anymore. I know because I have had conversations with members about this.

I think EVERYONE gets overheated at times, whether this be the original members or new people who believe Michael to be dead and sometimes when we don't mean to be we can say things that are nasty or not very pleasant. I am taking more time out to think about things before I post them and how they may be perceived and I think others should as well.

i know it has nothing to do with the topic at all...does your signature mean- as long as i live i hope or something like that?

xoxo
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by Rach on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:26 am

Sorry, I forgot to add this to my first post. R-E-S-P-E-C-T goes a long way and whether or not we think someone deserves it we should give it to them, and this includes NOT calling a member a troll in a thread. How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot?
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by Rach on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:27 am

@ Phoenix, yes Honey it does Smile
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by StenniZ on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:29 am

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:
dunno_it wrote: Pointless arguments,
- unbelievable gullibility,
- dark clouds,
- depression,
- BS,
- timewasting,
- trolling etc.
The list could go on.
Couldn't agree more. can we somehow fix it?


I think we CAN fix it. EAT CHOCOLATE!!!!

Seriously...I think we all need to take a break...all of us together. Dont even LOG in here over the weekend....and promise not to go to MJHD cus that would do you no good.

WE ALL NEED A BREAK!!!....Im serious. We'll come back on Monday , fresh and new.

As for the trolls. Ignore them. What theyre to upset people ARE JUST WORDS....words can hurt ALOT, but just ignore them. If you feed intot heir hatred then they will just get worse. Get my drift? LOL

I've been telling myself to take a break from this forum and the hoax in general for a couple of weeks. I know it's not healthy to come here everyday, but , I'm afraid it's easier said than done. But again, I totally agree with you. No matter what I do during the day, the hoax is on my mind 24/7 since June 25th! Looking back i never would have expected it to affect me this much. I'm going to try to follow your advise and skip this forum for the weekend. ......but I'm making any guarantees! Wink
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by phoenix on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:30 am

Rach wrote:@ Phoenix, yes Honey it does Smile

thank you Babes, i am good :-) lol
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by StenniZ on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:33 am

Rach wrote:Ok, I know I'm not supposed to be online right now but I feel like I have to add my own two cents about this topic.

I will be the first person to admit that the atmosphere on the board has gone downhill. I notice this because I have a lot of "cleaning up" to do, so to speak after everything explodes. However, not everyone who has posted on this topic is 100% innocent and even people with the best intentions can drive others away and make the believers not want to be here anymore. I know because I have had conversations with members about this.

I think EVERYONE gets overheated at times, whether this be the original members or new people who believe Michael to be dead and sometimes when we don't mean to be we can say things that are nasty or not very pleasant. I am taking more time out to think about things before I post them and how they may be perceived and I think others should as well.

Well said! I can't imagine what it must be like for you. Off course you're doing your work here voluntarily, but still. If I look at the influence this hoax has on my everyday life, I can't imagine how it must affect yours, since you also have the responsibility of being a moderator as well. I have great respect for you and the way you keep everything going Rachel!!!
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by Smelly on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:34 am

StenniZ wrote:Well said! I can't imagine what it must be like for you. Off course you're doing your work here voluntarily, but still. If I look at the influence this hoax has on my everyday life, I can't imagine how it must affect yours, since you also have the responsibility of being a moderator as well. I have great respect for you and the way you keep everything going Rachel!!!

Ditto! I have nothing but MAJOR respect for you Rach!
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by MiaPaparazzi on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:35 am

flory24 wrote:until I see a dead body , to me Michael is alive

I agree. We have not been shown anything to prove that he IS gone. Things are TOO WEIRD and there is no denying that. And I am all for investigating and debunking and trying to find more clues, but for me personally, I have a 7 year old, 5 year old and 1 1/2 year old that take a lot of my time so I jump in when I can and do what I can. I still BELIEVE and until I am proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt... that won't change.

As for the atmosphere, I agree its gotten worse. And it is sad that people feel they should not post their findings and theories, for fear of being attacked for it. EVERY ONE OF US- let me repeat that- EVERY ONE OF US - is entitled to our own opinions and beliefs and if you disagree with someone, that is fine, you are entitled to that as well. However, to belittle people and make them feel bad for trying to put their two cents in on something we are all trying to accomplish in the end, as we are all seeking the same common goal out of all this or we would not be spending the time we spend on the site, is something that can and will make people back away. I think we all need to step back to our "kindergarten rules" and remember, "if you can't say something nice (or productively nice) then don't say anything at all"...

...that is all my personal opinion and view on all of this and is not meant to offend anyone. Everyone I have met on here is really nice, intelligent and contributes something special to the site and I think if we just get back to basics, we will be ok. KEEP DA FAIT! DA TROOT WILL PREVAIL!!!!!!!
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by GirlSaturday on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:35 am

I remain a steadfast believer that Michael Jackson pulled a hoax and faked his death.

Despite doubt of an MJ return, I still keep the door open for the possibilities...especially the element of surprise. I would be fooling myself to think that MJ would do anything that even hinted of being ...predictable.

Michael is notoriously known for implementing the element of surprise in practically everything that he does. He is also known to be notoriously late. To me that translates to mean that he does what he wants and when he wants to do it. On HIS terms. He will not appear because GirlSaturday or anyone else is sitting with her arms folded and tapping her foot.

IF he decides to return, then it makes sense to have the public wait and wait and wait some more. It is expected that people will divert their attention when forced to wait. That would then be the opportune time to strike and to do so with such a punch that gets their undivided attention.

Think of how a big surprise party works. The guest of honor is caught offguard and surprised by the sheer planning and strategy by the party planner(s). Michael could indeed be planning a huge surprise party.

The downer to all of this is that the "MJ Returns" believers want him to do so sooner than later. Face it... MJ could be doing what MJ does so masterfully..making people wait. He did it throughout his career. Did his concerts start on time? How long between new releases? For all we know, his due date at birth may have been mid August instead of August 29th. LOl...I popped out two weeks late for my own birth so I could relate if he did that.

In the meantime, I just want to try and enjoy the ride without sweating too much of the small stuff.



ballongiraf wrote:OK, for the sake of my sanity i have to ask this question. Im not asking this to point fingers or place guilt, but rather in the hope of a constructive discussion.

How many of you have given up on the hoax?
How many of you still firmly believe in the hoax?

I, myself, have never been more convinced that MJ is alive than i am right now. IMO, more and more are pointing in that direction, the postponed tribute being the latest one. But at the same time i get the vibe from a lot of people here that they've given up deep down, but stay around in the hope that we'll get another amazing clue soon that'll restore their faith.
If i look at the posts and threads made before sept 3rd, and the posts and threads made after sept 3rd, i see a huge difference. Am i the only one?
The vibe i get from the board these days is a very defeatist attitude. Instead of starting or answering to threads pertaining to the hoax, we have people talking about virtually everything else. When interesting things show up (like the picture myself and swet1) posted a few days ago (a pic of a man that kinda looked like MJ), all the responses were like "nah.. he's too young" ,or "nah, he'd never go to his own burial - too risky". Now, im not mad that people didnt think it was MJ, but im AM stunned that we couldn't at least entertain the idea long enough to research, study the burial video to see if the person was present before we decided that it wasnt him. Had that pic been posted before the burial, im 100% sure we would've investigated the pic. Also, how come it was in NO way possible that the man in the pic could be MJ, yet people still entertain the idea that hat man, the woman at the memorial or dave dave is MJ? How come people think it's plausible that MJ would turn up at his own memorial, but that it'd be too risky to show up at his own burial? Again, the defeatist attitude im talking about.
To be perfectly honest, im at point where i dont post my findings, theories and thoughts here because i feel like they wont be taken seriously. Again, i didnt say that to offend anyone - but that's truly how i feel.

Can we please just talk and say what's on our minds? If people think he's gone, then fine. Im not here to persuade people to believe what i believe - but cant we at least agree to be honest about our feelings?

What DO you think? Have you, or have you not given up? You dont have to justify yourself, - just be honest when answering the question.
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by jpresley on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Farah and Ballon:

I would love, love, love to see your theories and findings. PLEASE do not stop posting. If nothing else, PM me and we can discuss things that way. I have been getting a LOT of flack from my husband regarding the amount of time I spend on the internet and also have several things going on with my parents (they have health issues), so it is difficult for me to put in the time needed for my own personal research away from the office (hehe). However, I have very good analytical skills and can assimilate information and expand on any theory presented. I 100% believe Michael is alive and coming back. I don't know when, of course, but we wouldn't have all of the clues, inconsistencies, discrepancies, etc. if there wasn't something bigger at hand.


I mean no disrespect to anyone, but, please, guys, if you don't believe, if you truly think Michael is gone from this earth, then visit all of the memorial websites dedicated to Michael's memory. Otherwise, everyone that is left, LET'S GET BACK TO WORK!!!!!

cheers
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by Give.In.To.Me on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:41 am

I have NEVER changed my view on this hoax ever..In fact by believe has increased by more than 100% that he is alive!!!
Yoo Hoo..MJ..come out come out where ever you are!!
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by kdkennedy74 on Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:06 am

From the time I was very young I have always been taught that a woman's instincts are never wrong. I am living with that notion now because I remember that on June 25th I had just barely walked into my front door when the local news broke in with the story that TMZ was reporting that MJ was dead. I looked at my husband and said "BS". I went into my home office and turned on my computer but could find no information on any of the major sites for about an hour and then it started coming through as MJ in a coma...well that is a far cry from dead so I chalked it up to TMZ not having a good reputation. Furthermore I checked michaeljackson.com and it was still the original website with the concert dates and information.

Like I said, this went on for about an hour and then the major channels started announcing his "death". I watched the TV for the next several days nonstop and became more and more confused as each day brought on a new scenario as to the events of 6/25/09. Then the original reports of Michael was addicted to pain meds and they were all crying Demerol and a few days later the propofol was found and pain meds were never mentioned again. Low and behold, 2 months later, we get a confirmation that his death was propofol induced. Which I find it very odd that someone is going to be addicted to anesthesia.

Then of course we have the so called memorial and 2.5 months later the burial which both done nothing more than fill me with more questions. I have never seen anything this bizarre related to a death. So many holes in the stories, so many inconsistencies.

Like I said at the beginning of this post, a woman's instincts are never wrong, and mine are still screaming that Michael Jackson is ALIVE!!!!
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by dunno_it on Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:19 am

exactly, ballongiraf, if the gold pants is the mainsteram thread here, I'd say this site is turning into a regular MJ fan site rather than a hoax site...
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by CantlivewithoutMJ on Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:45 am

He is alive,no doubt 10000000...%
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by rowdyangel on Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:47 am

To me there is far more proof that he is still alive than proof that he is dead and until that changes I am not going anywhere.

I am not giving up.

So much still does not add up. Yes I get downhearted and frustrated and feel that it is 3 steps forward and 2 steps back a lot of the time.

I am quite a spiritual person and I do not feel that Michael is in the spirit world at all.
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by MJbeliever on Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:47 am

i've never stopped believing he was still alive. about the forum , those of u who were here from the beginning know i've never really posted a lot (nor do i normally post a lot on any of the boards i visit) , though i come here daily and read the new topics ; i am more of a chatter . though lately i haven't really been there either because everytime i log in , there's few to none people in there . Neutral
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by dontmakeitfactual on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:18 am

In my case, I've been 50/50 all along, until, perhaps surprisingly to some of you, after the burial.
I never thought I'd say this (due to my personal nature -I tend to keep an open mind as regards everything, which means I'm a sort of a permanent agnostic, lol), but I do believe he is alive. Yessss! I've reached a point where there is hardly anything that could convince me otherwise.
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by yaya on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:28 am

for the first time since june 25th, i'm 100% convinced that he is alive. and i'm NOT giving up hope. something pretty huge would have to fall on me like a big pile of bricks for me to give up hope and be convinced he's dead! meanwhile, i have believed, still believe and will always believe he's alive.

i don't think anyone should give up hope just cuz the tribute concert has been delayed. how many times did the burial get delayed? and the toxicology results? the OFFICIAL report of them have been delayed indefinitely. the more things get delayed, whether they are some type of results or a tribute concert, the more that should renew our faith
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by PinkLizard on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:28 am

Ballon - thanks for starting this thread.

Firstly, I am so saddened that every time anyone posts their opinion they now feel like they have to 'apologise in advance' or add a disclaimer about 'not wanting to offend anyone'. This site did not used to be like this.

Do we now have too many members?

Are there too many people coming over from MJHD with the preconceived idea that we are the same and have a negative vibe?

I really don't know what is going on. I will say that I have noticed new members becoming gold members very quickly but without actually saying very much. We used to know who the loyal, hoax believers were and now it's becoming hard to tell. All I will say is please don't ruin our MJ family. We really did used to feel like a family, we were a great support for the members here and anytime anyone was going through a tough time, we all pulled together and helped them through it.
Many of us have developed 'friendships' on here that go beyond this site and that is a really lovely thing that we have to thank Michael for.

Is Michael alive? Do I still believe in this hoax. Without a doubt! I am here for the long run! On the night of the 'burial' in chat I saw so many of you starting to doubt and I hope I helped you hold on and continue to believe.

Sending love and hugs to everyone on here who wants to embrace this MJ family and who wants to carry on searching for the truth. xoxoxoxox
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by GirlSaturday on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:30 am

An open mind is a good thing to have.

That's fascinating to hear a 50/50 person say that the burial turned the tables to make you a believer. Quite a few 50/50 people that I have spoken to went in the other direction following the burial.

dontmakeitfactual wrote:In my case, I've been 50/50 all along, until, perhaps surprisingly to some of you, after the burial.
I never thought I'd say this (due to my personal nature -I tend to keep an open mind as regards everything, which means I'm a sort of a permanent agnostic, lol), but I do believe he is alive. Yessss! I've reached a point where there is hardly anything that could convince me otherwise.
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by dunno_it on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:35 am

PinkLizard wrote:Ballon - thanks for starting this thread.

Firstly, I am so saddened that every time anyone posts their opinion they now feel like they have to 'apologise in advance' or add a disclaimer about 'not wanting to offend anyone'. This site did not used to be like this.

Do we now have too many members?

Are there too many people coming over from MJHD with the preconceived idea that we are the same and have a negative vibe?

I really don't know what is going on. I will say that I have noticed new members becoming gold members very quickly but without actually saying very much. We used to know who the loyal, hoax believers were and now it's becoming hard to tell. All I will say is please don't ruin our MJ family. We really did used to feel like a family, we were a great support for the members here and anytime anyone was going through a tough time, we all pulled together and helped them through it.
Many of us have developed 'friendships' on here that go beyond this site and that is a really lovely thing that we have to thank Michael for.

Is Michael alive? Do I still believe in this hoax. Without a doubt! I am here for the long run! On the night of the 'burial' in chat I saw so many of you starting to doubt and I hope I helped you hold on and continue to believe.

Sending love and hugs to everyone on here who wants to embrace this MJ family and who wants to carry on searching for the truth. xoxoxoxox
Totally agree. I do not post much. But I do come here several times a day to read and digest things you guys have written, all I have to say is that:
Guys, of course MJ and the hoax is the most important issue here, but
it seems some seem to underesteimate the importance of the very
community we have created. it hurts me a lot when the members give up
and quit. In this forum I have met the most interesting people and
caring people and the very community is a good reason to stay here.
People, please don't quit, the community should survive no matter what.
This issome phenomenon that should not be wasted...


Last edited by dunno_it on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: the atmosphere here....

Post by emanviam on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:35 am

In all honesty....I strongly believe HE IS ALIVE!!
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Re: the atmosphere here....

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