THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

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THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:24 pm

@Everybody,

As you all know, I'm having a hard time believing that it is actually Michael in every frame of the THIS IS IT footage.

I don't have solid "proof", not even a hint of it, like when we discuss ears, hands, etc. but it is a gut feeling. I keep watching and watching the trailer and at certain moments I feel like screaming "That's not Michael!!!".

From all the "That's not Michael!!!" moments, there's one that screams louder at around 0:50/0:51. Check it out in the trailer:



Or check it out in this print screen I took of the trailer:



CONTINUED BELOW...


Last edited by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:26 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:25 pm

If I'm not mistaken, they seem to be rehearsing "They don't care about us" when "MJ" approaches the guitar player. Now, if you really feel like researching and comparing, also watch the first rehearsal video released in June (rehearsing the same song) from 0:15 to 0:22 aprox.



Now tell me these 2 are the same person. Suspect

PS: More food for thought: Notice "Wally" (the guy in the picture) has a weird ear similar to an ear that was discussed a few weeks ago? Wink
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by nlb on Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:46 pm

WOW-that really does scream out THAT'S NOT MICHAEL!

Is it a fact or rumor or rumored fact that doubles were goint o be used during the O2 concerts?

I've read so many different things that I have trouble keeping them straight, but I thought that somewhere along the line there was something about using doubles for part of the O2 concerts
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:51 pm

nlb wrote:WOW-that really does scream out THAT'S NOT MICHAEL!

Is it a fact or rumor or rumored fact that doubles were goint o be used during the O2 concerts?

I've read so many different things that I have trouble keeping them straight, but I thought that somewhere along the line there was something about using doubles for part of the O2 concerts

*Sigh of relief* I guess I'm not crazy after all! lol!

I'm not sure if the knowledge of doubles being used for TII is just rumour or fact. I guess we should do some research on that as well... I need a 42 hour day, 24 is no way enough!
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by GirlSaturday on Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:51 pm

After looking at the TDRCAU rehearsal, that MJ looks real and caused me to question the MJ's within the TII trailer....yet again.

The primary trailer MJ image that I sense to be real is blue shirt MJ who asks them to "do it one more time". The others look "funny" especially the one wearing red. The one wearing black could be MJ as well.

Plus the MJ's that I feel are real are those that are actually dancing or giving us MJ body movements. The fake ones seem to be giving generic "dancer glides" and other movements that any body double could provide.

For all we know, every single MJ in TII could be fake.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:02 pm

it IS Michael

Guest
Guest


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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Rach on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:03 pm

You all know where I stand on this so I don't even need to comment!
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by nlb on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:05 pm

Here's something that mentions doubles in print. This was written prior to June 25th when everyone was taking bets as to whether the concerts would even take place.

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily

Rumors say the show might also feature MJ in a duet with his oldest son
Prince Michael, a bunch of Michael look-alikes and monkeys and
elephants, although Phillips insists to the LAT that there are no monkeys involved.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:07 pm

GirlSaturday wrote:
For all we know, every single MJ in TII could be fake.

Sometimes, late at night, I'm haunted with that thought. lol!

But, seriously, what worries me the most is not the use of fakes but the reason for using fakes...

- Are they ripping the public by releasing a movie made with fakes after MJ's dissappearance because they have not enough footage from the real rehearsals?
- Was MJ too lazy / ill / whatever to attend rehearsals, so the footage was recorded with fakes before MJ's dissappearance?
- Was MJ plotting this hoax far far in advance and trained a very credible lookalike to take his place in rehearsals?

....

I don't know anymore...
I have to get back to the lab and concoct more theories!!
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:10 pm

nlb wrote:Here's something that mentions doubles in print. This was written prior to June 25th when everyone was taking bets as to whether the concerts would even take place.

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily

Rumors say the show might also feature MJ in a duet with his oldest son
Prince Michael, a bunch of Michael look-alikes and monkeys and
elephants, although Phillips insists to the LAT that there are no monkeys involved.

Although in print it reads "Rumors say", so we're still 50/50 on this. Suspect
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Banessa on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:12 pm

annieisnotokey wrote:
nlb wrote:WOW-that really does scream out THAT'S NOT MICHAEL!

Is it a fact or rumor or rumored fact that doubles were goint o be used during the O2 concerts?

I've read so many different things that I have trouble keeping them straight, but I thought that somewhere along the line there was something about using doubles for part of the O2 concerts

*Sigh of relief* I guess I'm not crazy after all! lol!

I'm not sure if the knowledge of doubles being used for TII is just rumour or fact. I guess we should do some research on that as well... I need a 42 hour day, 24 is no way enough!

If you guys are crazy so am I! lol Because I can clearly see what you are talking about Annie! I have seen the TII trailer so many times I have confused myself 100% geek But One thing I am sure of is that there is a double or doubles in the TII. Just my crazy thought! Lol
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by GirlSaturday on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:16 pm

If fans go through the effort to...

1)scramble online to purchase tickets
2)spend more than the normal movie price to get tickets for this "special" movie
3) wait in long movies lines to get good seats

...and detect fake Michael's thoughout the movie, there will RIOTS from angry fans worldwide. Plus the movie people will not be blamed. It will be viewed as an evil twisted MJ plot as people will wonder if/how he agreed to this.

annieisnotokey wrote:
GirlSaturday wrote:
For all we know, every single MJ in TII could be fake.

Sometimes, late at night, I'm haunted with that thought.

But, seriously, what worries me the most is not the use of fakes but the reason for using fakes...

- Are they ripping the public by releasing a movie made with fakes after MJ's dissappearance because they have not enough footage from the real rehearsals?
- Was MJ too lazy / ill / whatever to attend rehearsals, so the footage was recorded with fakes before MJ's dissappearance?
- Was MJ plotting this hoax far far in advance and trained a very credible lookalike to take his place in rehearsals?

....

I don't know anymore...
I have to get back to the lab and concoct more theories!!
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by nlb on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:18 pm

annieisnotokey wrote:
nlb wrote:Here's something that mentions doubles in print. This was written prior to June 25th when everyone was taking bets as to whether the concerts would even take place.

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily

Rumors say the show might also feature MJ in a duet with his oldest son
Prince Michael, a bunch of Michael look-alikes and monkeys and
elephants, although Phillips insists to the LAT that there are no monkeys involved.



Although in print it reads "Rumors say", so we're still 50/50 on this.

Very true the word rumor is used, I liked the quote because the writer implies that Phillips is only dismissing the monkeys. I do get what you mean and implying isn't fact.

I am still looking for something else that mentions doubles or something that deny the use of double from AEG, Phillips, Kenny O., or any of the others. With this running in Rolling Stone one might think Kenny and company would deny the use of doubles if nothing else. I'll keep digging.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:20 pm

Banessa wrote:
If you guys are crazy so am I! lol Because I can clearly see what you are talking about Annie! I have seen the TII trailer so many times I have confused myself 100% geek But One thing I am sure of is that there is a double or doubles in the TII. Just my crazy thought! Lol

More sighs of relief...
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Rach on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:20 pm

Annie, to address your question above I personally feel it could have been a mixture of all three scenarios.

I read somewhere that Michael only started commiting himself to TII a few weeks before June 25th as he knew there was no way he was going to get out of it. I don't know how true this is but it would explain why AEG felt they had to use a double.


Last edited by Rach on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:22 pm

GirlSaturday wrote:If fans go through the effort to...

1)scramble online to purchase tickets
2)spend more than the normal movie price to get tickets for this "special" movie
3) wait in long movies lines to get good seats

...and detect fake Michael's thoughout the movie, there will RIOTS from angry fans worldwide. Plus the movie people will not be blamed. It will be viewed as an evil twisted MJ plot as people will wonder if/how he agreed to this.

IMHO, 99.99% of fans will be too emotional to notice if doubles were used in parts of the movie, assuming the editing job will be done properly.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Banessa on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:27 pm

I Have to agree with Annie! A lot of the fans who will be seeing this movie will be too emotional and besides IMHO they won't even be looking for clues or to find doubles either.

Now, for us the ones who have spent time going over all the clues we have gotten and the videos, we will be the ones to notice the difference. But will it really matter? IMO sadly it won't. No
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:28 pm

Rach wrote:Annie, to address your question above I personally feel it could have been a mixture of all three scenarios.

I read somewhere that Michael only started commiting himself to TII a few weeks before June 25th as he knew there was no way he was going to get out of it. I don't know how true this is but it would explain why AEG felt they had to use a double.

Yeah, I read that too which brings up another question: DID MICHAEL KNOW HE WAS NEVER GONNA DO THE CONCERTS?

Maybe the movie was the only project all along. The concert announcements were only marketing for the movie.
This would explain him not bothering to show up until the last minute and the high definttion recording of rehearsals.
Doubles could actually be stand-ins that somehow ended up scrambled with the real footage or carefully trained doubles used by Michael and somehow related to his hoax...

My mind is going to incredible places now and I'm not on Kenny's crack!

PS: A stand-in in film and television is a person who substitutes for the actor before filming, for technical purposes such as lighting.
Stand-ins are helpful in the initial processes of production. Lighting setup can be a slow and tedious process; during this time the actor will often be somewhere else. Stand-ins allow the director of photography to light the set, the camera department to light and focus scenes. The director will often ask stand-ins to deliver the scene dialogue ("lines") and walk through ("blocking") the scenes to be filmed. In this way, a good stand-in can help speed up the day's production and is a necessary and valuable cast member on a film.
Stand-ins are distinguished from body doubles, who replace actors on camera from behind, in makeup, or during dangerous stunts. Stand-ins do not appear on camera. However, on some productions the jobs of stand-in and double may be done by the same person.
Stand-ins do not necessarily look like the actor, but they must have the same skin tone, hair color, height and build as the actor so that the lighting in a scene will be set up correctly. For example, if the lighting is set up with a stand-in shorter than an actor, the actor might end up having his or her head in relative darkness.


Last edited by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by GirlSaturday on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:29 pm

We noticed...and we're emotional.

Scenerio: You, Annie, are sitting in the theater and watching up-close... all fake Michael's. Are you going to just continue eating your popcorn and singing along? Or... will you turn to your neighbor and say "This SH** is FAKE".

annieisnotokey wrote:
GirlSaturday wrote:If fans go through the effort to...

1)scramble online to purchase tickets
2)spend more than the normal movie price to get tickets for this "special" movie
3) wait in long movies lines to get good seats

...and detect fake Michael's thoughout the movie, there will RIOTS from angry fans worldwide. Plus the movie people will not be blamed. It will be viewed as an evil twisted MJ plot as people will wonder if/how he agreed to this.

IMHO, 99.99% of fans will be too emotional to notice if doubles were used in parts of the movie, assuming the editing job will be done properly.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:30 pm

Banessa wrote:Now, for us the ones who have spent time going over all the clues we have gotten and the videos, we will be the ones to notice the difference. But will it really matter? IMO sadly it won't. No

No, it won't.
They won't believe us.
Notice that not even within the boundaries of the hoax forum we can agree on the use of doubles.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Rach on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:31 pm

@ Annie - Don't lie, you have been chilling with Uncle Kenny again haven't you?!

@ GirlSaturday - Knowing me I would make an annoucment to the whole cinema and tell them it was a fake Smile
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by kdkennedy74 on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:32 pm

@Annie

You are exactly right in your first post when you say at :50 it is not him. If you pause quickly you can see that that is not his body in those leather pants and again the headset is on the left. Also, I posted in another thread that when they show the clip of Smooth Criminal, it starts with headset on the left but after the guy flips and it goes back to showing Michael with his arm outstretched, the headset is on the right. IMHO there is no way on earth that we are going to see the real Michael in this movie very much. I think our views of the real man are going to be minimal at best. If you will remember, there was an interview posted at one time where Kenny O says that he hired look-alikes to fill-in because he never knew for sure when Michael was going to show. I wish I could find the link but I can't seem to locate it right now.

As I have said before, I can't wait to see this film for the simple fact of analyzing, but even more so can't wait for the DVD so that I can start and pause at my own pace.


Last edited by kdkennedy74 on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : had stated right when meaning left about the original post from Annie)
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:35 pm

GirlSaturday wrote:We noticed...and we're emotional.

Scenerio: You, Annie, are sitting in the theater and watching up-close... all fake Michael's. Are you going to just continue eating your popcorn and singing along? Or... will you turn to your neighbor and say "This SH** is FAKE".


I'll probably scream for anybody who can hear me "This SH** is FAKE" and I'll be promptly scorted out the theater wearing this:



So... are you saying that the movie won't include doubles because it would be too risky?
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Banessa on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:35 pm

Rach wrote:@ Annie - Don't lie, you have been chilling with Uncle Kenny again haven't you?!

@ GirlSaturday - Knowing me I would make an annoucment to the whole cinema and tell them it was a fake Smile


Knowing you I believe you would! Smile but like Annie said the people in the theater won't believe a word and the ones getting thrown out would be us! Annie is right even here in the forum we can't agree that MJ used doubles and this coming from people who believe he is alive.(NO offense) Now how much harder would it be to convince those who think of him as being "dead".


@ Annie lol! lol!
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:38 pm

Rach wrote:@ Annie - Don't lie, you have been chilling with Uncle Kenny again haven't you?!



Uncle Kenny sworn me to secrecy!
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Rach on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:39 pm

Oooooops sorry! My lips are sealed Smile

Ok guys I'm outta here. Much love and speak to you all in a few hours.

xoxoxoxoxoxo
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by GirlSaturday on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:40 pm

Aninie and Banessa...both right.

Besides, movies cost $10. TII is bound to cost probably double that amount with online fees and the fact that it will be dubbed as a "special engagement". I am not trying to lose $20 or so just to make a statement and prove a point. Forget them...they are non-believers anyway. Let them find out on the own...afterwards.

Banessa wrote:
Rach wrote:@ Annie - Don't lie, you have been chilling with Uncle Kenny again haven't you?!

@ GirlSaturday - Knowing me I would make an annoucment to the whole cinema and tell them it was a fake


Knowing you I believe you would! but like Annie said the people in the theater won't believe a word and the ones getting thrown out would be us! Annie is right even here in the forum we can't agree that MJ used doubles and this coming from people who believe he is alive.(NO offense) Now how much harder would it be to convince those who think of him as being "dead".


@ Annie
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by jade jackson on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:11 pm

All I can say is WOW. That guy's moves are nothing like Michael's. When I first saw that clip shortly after June 25th, I had an immediate gut reaction...I just KNEW that wasn't Michael Jackson, or at least not the Michael Jackson I know. I thought it was all Michael in the trailer until I looked at your first video link. I am totally amazed at your (and others) ability to find and isolate these things. Good job!
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:21 pm

jade jackson wrote:I am totally amazed at your (and others) ability to find and isolate these things. Good job!

Thank you! cheers

Together will find da troot.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by nlb on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:21 pm

http://bimchat.wordpress.com/2009/06/26/michael-jacksons-doctor-missing-after-stars-death/

Brian Oxman, a spokesman for the Jackson family, said the singer’s relatives had been concerned about his health for some time.
Michael appeared at rehearsals a couple of times, he was very seriously trying to be able to do those rehearsals,” he said.

Not proof, but I don't remember this at all
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:25 pm

nlb wrote:http://bimchat.wordpress.com/2009/06/26/michael-jacksons-doctor-missing-after-stars-death/

Brian Oxman, a spokesman for the Jackson family, said the singer’s relatives had been concerned about his health for some time.
Michael appeared at rehearsals a couple of times, he was very seriously trying to be able to do those rehearsals,” he said.

Not proof, but I don't remember this at all

Neither do I. scratch

And very strange indeed. So... according to this, they are going to release a movie with footage from the couple of times MJ was strong enough to show up for rehearsals? Shocked
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by nlb on Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:33 pm

annieisnotokey wrote:
nlb wrote:http://bimchat.wordpress.com/2009/06/26/michael-jacksons-doctor-missing-after-stars-death/

Brian Oxman, a spokesman for the Jackson family, said the singer’s relatives had been concerned about his health for some time.
Michael appeared at rehearsals a couple of times, he was very seriously trying to be able to do those rehearsals,” he said.

Not proof, but I don't remember this at all

Neither do I.

And very strange indeed. So... according to this, they are going to release a movie with footage from the couple of times MJ was strong enough to show up for rehearsals?

That is what it sounds like to me if this statement is true. This continues to get stranger and the more we dig the more questions we raise
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by nlb on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:02 am

I posted this the other day and it is very odd as well.

AEG despite their previous statements does not have so many footages, but most of them are from the June 23 - 24 rehearsals.

AEG furthermore owns over 1.000 color, digital photos taken on May 6 and June 22 - 23.

http://mjkit.forumotion.net/news-and-odd-things-f8/this-is-it-tour-rehearsals-details-t1692.htm

The more we keep seeing and reading the more I am convinced that there are doubles used. It also makes me wonder how much of this footage was shot AFTER June 25th.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Banessa on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:28 am

nlb wrote:I posted this the other day and it is very odd as well.

AEG despite their previous statements does not have so many footages, but most of them are from the June 23 - 24 rehearsals.

AEG furthermore owns over 1.000 color, digital photos taken on May 6 and June 22 - 23.

http://mjkit.forumotion.net/news-and-odd-things-f8/this-is-it-tour-rehearsals-details-t1692.htm

The more we keep seeing and reading the more I am convinced that there are doubles used. It also makes me wonder how much of this footage was shot AFTER June 25th.


Humm!!! Correct me if Im wrong but if most of the footage they have is from 2 days only...yet they claim there are more than 100hours worth of footage to be seen in the TII movie? That would mean that they had to have shot more than half of the 100 hours during the 23rd and the 24th and being that the day only has 24hours???? I highly doubt they worked 24hours straight!!! And if they did is no wonder MJ was tired! Smile Im not sure if I am making myself clear with this! Or even where I am going with it lol I tend to ramble on, once 11pm hits the corner lol So if you understand where I'm going with this I give you Props! Lol Please do explain it to me! Lol
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:44 am

Not to ruin anything. But it IS Michael in every singel rehearsel footage, I will give you the keys to my house if Im wrong. It`s a very nice house Smile

But I know Im not wrong.

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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Red Velvet on Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:40 am

*sigh*

no,

annie, you're not alone - here's another one *slowly raises hand*

Watching it during the VMAs I sat up and went, "OMgoodnesss!!! that is not Michael in some of these frames" in fact, it almost seemed to be just about every other frame and that really bothered me and it was a pain in the u-know-what to watch because of lack of continuity.

But then I came back here and slowed down the bit of footage I had and it was all him so I was fine.

When I saw it on the VMAs though, I burst out laughing when I first noticed because I was feeling like he was (somehow) pulling a fast one on the world.

This is starting to worry me because its the first discussion since I joined this board that is making me think for the first time that maybe ...


Mostly because of you all talking about what Ortega said because I noticed that the only part that Ortega corrected was about the monkeys

Plus, annie you're making me think maybe they used stand ins (not even sure there's not more than one "fake") to fill in for tech purposes and ended up having to go with those stand ins (or that stand in)... ya know ... "after".

I've got to get myself out of this slump because its so late and I have GOT to get a good night's rest.

*thinking to self through fingers flapping*

I was gonna say maybe they used a stand-in for tech rehearsals and got stuck with having to use a lot of the footage but I'm pretty sure that it would be a first for MJ to even miss tech rehearsals if I'm not mistaken.

I think he's 'hands on' to a nearly OCD degree on everything without exception, and I don't believe for a minute that he was so lazy he would train a stand-in to make the stand in performance-ready like that guy is, and besides, for stand-in purposes (like tech rehearsals) its not necessary that the stand-in also be a "nearly dead-ringer" look-a-like.

and I really can't see them coming up with somebody who looks "almost exactly" like MJ, at the very last minute afterall, this stand-in is seems pretty well rehearsed and "ready" and is working with the cast MJ worked with...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm dang

ok, I have to get some sleep and I can't sleep until something feels plausible right now so ...

*sigh*

OK, please tell me if this makes a hair of a modicum of sense:

MJ is using this "body double" (loosely speaking) intentionally as part of the story (like to prove "they don't even care about us" enough to know whether its "us" or someone else (I know its a stretch but like I said, I have to sleep somehow)

ok, OR

AEG is doing this because MJ actually never came to peace with the contract as annie mentioned and was not going to make any of their deadlines, not the concert, not the film (sorry 999 fans) NOTHING, because those contract issues he asked his dad and Frank Dileo to help him to understand turned out to be patently unacceptable ...

soooo ....

ok...

(here's another stretch BUT ..)

.. for my peace of mind (for now) I'm going to believe that MJ was giving AEG a boatload of "pushback" and AEG was already committed, nammely Randy Phillips, the CEO, the one who had to impress the owner that he'd made the correct decision, and the owner was at the time the one he needed desperately to fool, and not being remotely a die-hard fan, would never tell the difference

but the CEO knew that AEG had ended up losing money on the concerts and is therefore trying to make up for it as best as posssible with this film,

MEANWHILE,

it only has Michael in it for a few frames because after all of the contract dispute, Michael ducked out of the contract on a technicality ... like because it wasn't properly signed or notorized,

BUT

MJ shows up in a few frames because he did have a contractual agreement with the Screen Actors Guild and American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA) unions which MJ had already signed agreements with for a limited time on a pending basis (I'm making this up but I have to sleep!!) ..

So, by heaven's grace, MJ got out of the AEG deal on a technicality (contracts not notorized) BUT he also was bound to the movie by a technicality (he signed union contracts when he first knew the concert was scheduled to come out on DVD) which is the only reason the movie will have him in it at all,

andit turned out to be the saving grace for AEG because after MJ ducked on them, the movie was the only way they were going to recoup anything and the movie is coming out for 2 weeks as a test marketing ploy and if it hits like they are hoping it will (as they also hope nobody notices its not all MJ)
they will recop on the losses from the concert cancellations

.. rendering Michael still only contractually bound to the artists unions for the limited number of days (2) because after he signed the union's pending contracts he had neglected to sign the full contract because of everything being up in the air (major contract disputes with AEG) which is why he shows up in the movie at all - its only union rules that give AEG the right to show him at all!

ah! ok. that makes sense, at least in my dreams now at least I can sleep

waitin' on you annie!! (please) I know you will have something for us. . .

maybe this is the beginning of a new masterpiece

I sure hope so.

All you guys may have come up with all kinds of bullet holes in this by the time I wake up but at least it will help me to sleep because at first I was

but now at least I'm

All Power to the Imagination!!!

?


Last edited by Red Velvet on Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by nlb on Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:02 am

Banessa wrote:
nlb wrote:I posted this the other day and it is very odd as well.

AEG despite their previous statements does not have so many footages, but most of them are from the June 23 - 24 rehearsals.

AEG furthermore owns over 1.000 color, digital photos taken on May 6 and June 22 - 23.

http://mjkit.forumotion.net/news-and-odd-things-f8/this-is-it-tour-rehearsals-details-t1692.htm

The more we keep seeing and reading the more I am convinced that there are doubles used. It also makes me wonder how much of this footage was shot AFTER June 25th.


Humm!!! Correct me if Im wrong but if most of the footage they have is from 2 days only...yet they claim there are more than 100hours worth of footage to be seen in the TII movie? That would mean that they had to have shot more than half of the 100 hours during the 23rd and the 24th and being that the day only has 24hours???? I highly doubt they worked 24hours straight!!! And if they did is no wonder MJ was tired! Im not sure if I am making myself clear with this! Or even where I am going with it lol I tend to ramble on, once 11pm hits the corner lol So if you understand where I'm going with this I give you Props! Lol Please do explain it to me! Lol

HAHA..sad thing is I think I do understand what you are saying . Your right there is not 100 hours in 2 days, so where is all the footage from?

To add to the confusion I found this:

Others began to press Jackson to rehearse more. "I had my concerns if he was ready, and I questioned him," says Ortega. "There were days when I was like, 'Are you going to show up? Are you really going to be here? You need to do this.' '' Citing the need for more set-up time in London, Ortega asked for the opening show to be pushed back five days, to July 13.

In early June, Dr Murray mediated a meeting at Michael's home between Jackson and Ortega, who felt the star needed to come to rehearsals more often. Jackson listened quietly to the tour director, but he didn't seem alarmed. "I know my schedule," he said calmly. "Just trust me."

But after that, Jackson started coming to rehearsals all day, every day. To those around him, he seemed focused and attentive to every detail. "I like to refer to Michael as a gamer," says DiLeo. "He's the quarterback. He's the star of the team, and in practice, quarterbacks are easygoing. But game day, he's turning it on."

The article is very long and covers a lot of things. This quote is towards the bottom. I'm not sure if the author is quoting Kenny from another source or not. I don't recall the author saying anything about interviewing Kenny personally. Still looking to see if I can find something directly from K.O.'s mouth.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/the-last-days-of-michael-jackson-1867400.html
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Red Velvet on Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:35 am

nlb wrote:
Banessa wrote:
nlb wrote:I posted this the other day and it is very odd as well.

AEG despite their previous statements does not have so many footages, but most of them are from the June 23 - 24 rehearsals.

AEG furthermore owns over 1.000 color, digital photos taken on May 6 and June 22 - 23.

http://mjkit.forumotion.net/news-and-odd-things-f8/this-is-it-tour-rehearsals-details-t1692.htm

The more we keep seeing and reading the more I am convinced that there are doubles used. It also makes me wonder how much of this footage was shot AFTER June 25th.


Humm!!! Correct me if Im wrong but if most of the footage they have is from 2 days only...yet they claim there are more than 100hours worth of footage to be seen in the TII movie? That would mean that they had to have shot more than half of the 100 hours during the 23rd and the 24th and being that the day only has 24hours???? I highly doubt they worked 24hours straight!!! And if they did is no wonder MJ was tired! Im not sure if I am making myself clear with this! Or even where I am going with it lol I tend to ramble on, once 11pm hits the corner lol So if you understand where I'm going with this I give you Props! Lol Please do explain it to me! Lol

HAHA..sad thing is I think I do understand what you are saying . Your right there is not 100 hours in 2 days, so where is all the footage from?

To add to the confusion I found this:

Others began to press Jackson to rehearse more. "I had my concerns if he was ready, and I questioned him," says Ortega. "There were days when I was like, 'Are you going to show up? Are you really going to be here? You need to do this.' '' Citing the need for more set-up time in London, Ortega asked for the opening show to be pushed back five days, to July 13.

In early June, Dr Murray mediated a meeting at Michael's home between Jackson and Ortega, who felt the star needed to come to rehearsals more often. Jackson listened quietly to the tour director, but he didn't seem alarmed. "I know my schedule," he said calmly. "Just trust me."

But after that, Jackson started coming to rehearsals all day, every day. To those around him, he seemed focused and attentive to every detail. "I like to refer to Michael as a gamer," says DiLeo. "He's the quarterback. He's the star of the team, and in practice, quarterbacks are easygoing. But game day, he's turning it on."

The article is very long and covers a lot of things. This quote is towards the bottom. I'm not sure if the author is quoting Kenny from another source or not. I don't recall the author saying anything about interviewing Kenny personally. Still looking to see if I can find something directly from K.O.'s mouth.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/the-last-days-of-michael-jackson-1867400.html

Thanks for this bit you provided though. Anything to get our minds around this.

If there really are doubles being used it changes the color of things entirely ...and will remix a whole lot of different theories
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:49 am

MyBelovedMJ wrote:Not to ruin anything. But it IS Michael in every singel rehearsel footage, I will give you the keys to my house if Im wrong. It`s a very nice house

But I know Im not wrong.

Okey, thank you for your input.
You made your point TWICE in the same thread.
Let's agree to disagree because there's a lot of interesting discussion going on this thread and I don't want it getting sidetracked.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:03 pm

@nlb, Banessa & Red Velvet (in no particular order and sorry if I forget to mention somebody else who contributed with info/theories in this thread).

All I can say is WOW! My mind is racing right now. There's so much stuff to come up with new theories and maybe (just maybe) get a step closer to the truth.

I'm putting my thinking cap on now and I will probably come up with new theories and ideas soon.

Another thing I'd like to keep digging our curious little fingers in is the Sony / Beatles Catalogue issue.

I made a thread about it last weekend:
http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jackson-hoax-death-theories-f2/sony-the-beatles-catalogue-vs-michael-jackson-important-question-t1756.htm
and I'm still doing my research about this.

I think, somehow, everything ties in together... Or maybe I just need to get some more sleep!!

Together we'll find out DA TROOT! I promise!
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by Harleyblonde on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:06 pm

MyBelovedMJ wrote:Not to ruin anything. But it IS Michael in every singel rehearsel footage, I will give you the keys to my house if Im wrong. It`s a very nice house

But I know Im not wrong.

Fair enough but how do you prove it?? Do you have any proof? Thats why we are all here- to settle our minds that MJ is ok.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by ishealive on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:06 pm

Haven't seen this posted already, apologies if it was - please don't do an MJHD and attack!

At the start of the trailer it says in writing:

"His dreams inspired the world but there was still one dream he wanted to share with everyone"

Are we to presume this is TII concerts or something else? I'm going for something else because he's already done the whole concert thing so how can that be a new dream???
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by annieisnotokey on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:18 pm

ishealive wrote:Haven't seen this posted already, apologies if it was - please don't do an MJHD and attack!

At the start of the trailer it says in writing:

"His dreams inspired the world but there was still one dream he wanted to share with everyone"

Are we to presume this is TII concerts or something else? I'm going for something else because he's already done the whole concert thing so how can that be a new dream???

I agree.

Although it could be just a silly marketing line, it kind of makes me think... Did MJ know all along the concerts were never gonna happen?

PS: For the record, I don't believe in the movie theory as it was presented by Souza (sorry!) but I'm open to believe that maybe the concerts were never gonna happen and they were just the way to hype up the movie and give MJ a way out (or something of that sort... I'm still thinking how everything ties in together).
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by neverlandprincess on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:20 pm

The thing with the doubles is driving me batty-the people working with Michael said he was very well and danced better than they did-also they said it was lie when Ian Halprin said that he had passed out at rehearsals-or wasnt showing up for them becaus ehe was not required to "show up" until the full stage etc was ready. I don't think it looks like him though (and I really hate the pointy shoulders). But I get frusterated because like at the end of "they dont care about us" rehearsal I think it looks very much like him-but near the beginning of it it doesnt-I also couldnt see the differance in the one released in June and the one on the post-maybe I got the wrong one. @ishealive-I have really been trying to figure out that little message about the still one dream he wanted to share with everyone-what the? We know he wanted to make movies but they have never ever said that this is the reason they are putting this out!
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by ishealive on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:28 pm

@annie I agree with you, I don't know exactly how it all fits together but I do believe MJ knew all along about the TII movie and knew he wouldn't be doing the concerts. I also feel if MJ retires from concerts and goes into directing then he will have to come back, if he wants to start a new chapter in his life as a director then I think he'll comeback.
As far as singing and dancing are concerned I think he may do the odd appearance here and there but MJ that's been around for the past 45 years as we know him is gone but maybe the new director MJ will be around.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by nlb on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:47 pm

neverlandprincess wrote:The thing with the doubles is driving me batty-the people working with Michael said he was very well and danced better than they did-also they said it was lie when Ian Halprin said that he had passed out at rehearsals-or wasnt showing up for them becaus ehe was not required to "show up" until the full stage etc was ready. I don't think it looks like him though (and I really hate the pointy shoulders). But I get frusterated because like at the end of "they dont care about us" rehearsal I think it looks very much like him-but near the beginning of it it doesnt-I also couldnt see the differance in the one released in June and the one on the post-maybe I got the wrong one. @ishealive-I have really been trying to figure out that little message about the still one dream he wanted to share with everyone-what the? We know he wanted to make movies but they have never ever said that this is the reason they are putting this out!

I gotta say this drivng us all batty . At least you are not alone in it. I do think that MJ is some of the footage, but not all of it. I'm not sure what the percentage is because we have only been given little clips here and there.

There is an interview that was posted last week with MJ talking about using disguises and he mentioned about using the sunglasses, but that the woman fans started to look behind the glasses to see if it was him. I think of this everytime we get a new clip with sunglasses being worn. The very first clip released back in June was without, but since then we have seen sunglasses.
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Re: THIS IS IT - A hoax within a hoax? Where's Wally (a.k.a. MJ's double)?

Post by neverlandprincess on Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:13 pm

nlb wrote:
neverlandprincess wrote:The thing with the doubles is driving me batty-the people working with Michael said he was very well and danced better than they did-also they said it was lie when Ian Halprin said that he had passed out at rehearsals-or wasnt showing up for them becaus ehe was not required to "show up" until the full stage etc was ready. I don't think it looks like him though (and I really hate the pointy shoulders). But I get frusterated because like at the end of "they dont care about us" rehearsal I think it looks very much like him-but near the beginning of it it doesnt-I also couldnt see the differance in the one released in June and the one on the post-maybe I got the wrong one. @ishealive-I have really been trying to figure out that little message about the still one dream he wanted to share with everyone-what the? We know he wanted to make movies but they have never ever said that this is the reason they are putting this out!

I gotta say this drivng us all batty . At least you are not alone in it. I do think that MJ is some of the footage, but not all of it. I'm not sure what the percentage is because we have only been given little clips here and there.

There is an interview that was posted last week with MJ talking about using disguises and he mentioned about using the sunglasses, but that the woman fans started to look behind the glasses to see if it was him. I think of this everytime we get a new clip with sunglasses being worn. The very first clip released back in June was without, but since then we have seen sunglasses.

Yeah-I think of it every time I see the o2 anouncement-lol-and those clips with them he looks odd-but like at the end of the "they dont care about us" clip-thats what looks familiar is his eyes..hmmm.
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