Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

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Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Souza81 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:51 am

OK, allow me to end all confusion. Here is a standard unfilled US Death Certificate, Directly from the government's website:
———-
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/DEATH11-03final-acc.pdf
———-
Death Certificate MUST state: LEGAL NAME + AKA'S. So in this case,
BOTH names should have been on the DC, and as you can see, also
definately the LEGAL name (Joe in this case).

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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:56 am

Thanks for posting that.. Interesting.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by J.J_loves_MJ on Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:56 am

Souza81 wrote:OK, allow me to end all confusion. Here is a standard unfilled US Death Certificate, Directly from the government's website:
———-
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/DEATH11-03final-acc.pdf
———-
Death Certificate MUST state: LEGAL NAME + AKA'S. So in this case,
BOTH names should have been on the DC, and as you can see, also
definately the LEGAL name (Joe in this case).

Can I say what I noticed? Maybe I am wrong but the fake DC was looking like a BC not like a real DC. I mean the paper was like the one used for BC.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:58 am

J.J_loves_MJ wrote:
Souza81 wrote:OK, allow me to end all confusion. Here is a standard unfilled US Death Certificate, Directly from the government's website:
———-
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/DEATH11-03final-acc.pdf
———-
Death Certificate MUST state: LEGAL NAME + AKA'S. So in this case,
BOTH names should have been on the DC, and as you can see, also
definately the LEGAL name (Joe in this case).

Can I say what I noticed? Maybe I am wrong but the fake DC was looking like a BC not like a real DC. I mean the paper was like the one used for BC.
You mean with the colors and everything?
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by EarthAngel90 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:04 am

Wait a Minute .... so the Colorful Death Certifcate is Fake ?!?! the Original Document is white ?!?! .... I though the colorful ones are official certs ... I am confused yet intrigued .... yet wondering is this true ?!?! ....
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:14 am

Pffff.
Isn´t that screaming "hoax" again..?
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by amber on Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:58 am

sorry im abit confused here does this mean the certificate we've been seeing on web is fake? what about the ones media have had so called info from? ive not come across a white one, if this is right then that must mean no-one could of seen the real one....unless im wrong please let me no im intrigued ive been chasing certificate again today
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:55 am

I hate posting this, but this is the DC of Patrick Swayze....

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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:58 am

Human_nature wrote:I hate posting this, but this is the DC of Patrick Swayze....


where is it?
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by MJSmile4Us on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:00 am

thank u for posting the file this, to me, kind of proves that the DC that was released is not real bcoz this DC posted on the government's site states that

ITEMS 24-28 MUST BE COMPLETED BY PERSON WHO PRONOUNCES OR CERTIFIES DEATH

but in Michael's DC, it was filled out by LaToya (it'd been more correct for the doctor to do it and although it's not rght Jermaine would have also been the one to fill this part out as he was the one who announced Michael's 'death')? plz correct me if I am wrong on this - there are so many contradicting stories that I don't know what to think anymore, lol.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by WanaBstartnSthn on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:03 am

i used to work for the Registry of Motor vehicles (or DMV as some may know it) and we often received death certificates from various states in the USA, both copies and originals. The originals were always colorful.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:04 am

Where is Patrick Swayze´s DC? I dont see it...
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:05 am

@GirlInTheMirror

Link for Patrick DC

http://www.starmagazine.com/patrick_swayze_cremated/news/16061
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:06 am

or here :

http://www.starmagazine.com/media/originals/Swayze_Death_Cert2.jpg
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:09 am

Back in 1993... Los Angeles DC was like this one (River Phoenix) :


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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:16 am

Human_nature wrote:or here :

http://www.starmagazine.com/media/originals/Swayze_Death_Cert2.jpg

Thanks Human_nature!
However, both links don´t open ("not found"), but I think it will be a colorfull one?
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:19 am

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:
Human_nature wrote:or here :

http://www.starmagazine.com/media/originals/Swayze_Death_Cert2.jpg

Thanks Human_nature!
However, both links don´t open ("not found"), but I think it will be a colorfull one?

I don't know why links and image won't work....

Yes it's a colorful DC
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:21 am

Human_nature wrote:
GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:
Human_nature wrote:or here :

http://www.starmagazine.com/media/originals/Swayze_Death_Cert2.jpg

Thanks Human_nature!
However, both links don´t open ("not found"), but I think it will be a colorfull one?

I don't know why links and image won't work....

Yes it's a colorful DC
Well, nothing to add then. Smile
Then it´s just about the name, if it´s Joe or Joseph. I hope we´ll know soon.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:21 am

Here a PDF but they blanked many infos....
The other one is clearer...

http://www.etonline.com/documents/swayzedeath_et.pdf
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:29 am

Human_nature wrote:Here a PDF but they blanked many infos....
The other one is clearer...

http://www.etonline.com/documents/swayzedeath_et.pdf

Thank you!
I have a question to this: what does "Informational, not a valid document to establish identity" mean?
Does this mean, the name stated on it could be wrong?
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:36 am

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:
Human_nature wrote:Here a PDF but they blanked many infos....
The other one is clearer...

http://www.etonline.com/documents/swayzedeath_et.pdf

Thank you!
I have a question to this: what does "Informational, not a valid document to establish identity" mean?
Does this mean, the name stated on it could be wrong?

This is only as information yes, a copy of the real DC.
So, we can't be sure.

For Patrick, I know it's his true informations.

And for River it's an original copy ..but it's from 1993, so things have changed ...
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by ilprincipe on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:39 am

I have no knowledge about all that...
I also work for german resp. bavarian government...

our official forms change very often.
I see birth certificates daily...when I worked in another section I had to work more
with death certificates...and also this form often changes in some years...
so we have the dc of River Phoenix who died 16 years ago...
I was unfortunately not able to open the links from human_nature..

Is there or on MJHD really no member who works for a municipality in California and has to deal with dc's daily? Nobody out there?
The opinion of such a person would be really helpful.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:43 am

ilprincipe wrote:I have no knowledge about all that...
I also work for german resp. bavarian government...

our official forms change very often.
I see birth certificates daily...when I worked in another section I had to work more
with death certificates...and also this form often changes in some years...
so we have the dc of River Phoenix who died 16 years ago...
I was unfortunately not able to open the links from human_nature..

Is there or on MJHD really no member who works for a municipality in California and has to deal with dc's daily? Nobody out there?
The opinion of such a person would be really helpful.

here the PDF file for P.Swayze DC :

http://www.etonline.com/documents/swayzedeath_et.pdf
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by WanaBstartnSthn on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:43 am

I've never seen a dc for a regular person with those words behind it "Informational, not a valid document to establish identity" I wonder if that is something that's only for celebrity death certs? Because a lot of celebs don't use their real names, ie; Charlie Sheen's real name is Carlos Estevez, Clay Aiken's real name is Clayton Grissom, Demi Moore's name is Demetria Guynes, etc.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:45 am

ilprincipe wrote:I have no knowledge about all that...
I also work for german resp. bavarian government...

our official forms change very often.
I see birth certificates daily...when I worked in another section I had to work more
with death certificates...and also this form often changes in some years...
so we have the dc of River Phoenix who died 16 years ago...
I was unfortunately not able to open the links from human_nature..

Is there or on MJHD really no member who works for a municipality in California and has to deal with dc's daily? Nobody out there?
The opinion of such a person would be really helpful.
Yes!!!
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by ilprincipe on Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:51 am

thank you human Smile

I didn't compare the details...but if I compare it from a distance...
the dc's look very similar...

@wanabstartnsthn (your old nick was really easier to write;)
I tried google pic search 2 mins. ago....
there are many pics of MJs dc.
they all have this "informational...not a valid document" ...
So it's not a real one?
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:02 am

Here a link ...many celebrities death certificates, but WARNING, don't click everywhere, read carefully before ok.

http://www.findadeath.com/
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:04 am

ilprincipe wrote:thank you human

I didn't compare the details...but if I compare it from a distance...
the dc's look very similar...

@wanabstartnsthn (your old nick was really easier to write;)
I tried google pic search 2 mins. ago....
there are many pics of MJs dc.
they all have this "informational...not a valid document" ...
So it's not a real one?
That´s what I thought and why I asked. ... Weird. Again!
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:06 am

Here an example of an exact copy : James brown (2006) but it was not in California...

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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:10 am

Human_nature wrote:Here an example of an exact copy : James brown (2006) but it was not in California...


As seen on this one, and, as I read, also stated in Patrick Swayze´s one, the cause leading to the cardiac arrest is stated. Right? What was it in Michael´s case? Injection?
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:16 am

hmm well...

Michael here :

http://www2.tbo.com/exposure/full/2009/07/07/5996_michael-jackson-death-certificate.jpg

signed by : Cheryl Macwillie deputy coroner

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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by juliet on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:17 am

Please check the signature of the Director of Health Services and Registrar.

In Patrick Swayze's Dc, it was signed with Jona Man E Fielding Mo and underneath
is VD
In Michael's DC, it was signed with Jona Man E Fielding Mo and underneath
is VE on July 7

It's not the same


Last edited by juliet on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:18 am

Human_nature wrote:hmm well...

Michael here :

http://www2.tbo.com/exposure/full/2009/07/07/5996_michael-jackson-death-certificate.jpg

signed by : Cheryl Macwillie deputy coroner


Isn´t there a new one?
The one which doesn´t say "deferred", but actually states a cause? Urgh..
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:21 am

Is it this one?

Btw, on this one it says VD. Does this mean valid? I really don´t know. Also I´m not from the US.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by ilprincipe on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:26 am

the link from souza shows a totally different form...
it looks like there's a form of the dc for the whole US...
and the dc's we saw look like "Californian" forms...

this is what's still confusing me
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:26 am

that´s from the telegraph (http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01473/jackoCert_1473218c.jpg), but well...
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Human_nature on Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:41 am

I really don't know
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by infinitylady on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:21 pm

Michael's Middle name is Joseph.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Thetruth on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:34 pm


http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/ans_dc_5.pdf
Here on the above pitchure there is Anna Nicole death certificate, and her real name was Vickie Lynn Marshall and it is stated on the document. I dont see why there was not JOE in Michael document, it is either a fake or a hoax...
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by lou on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:42 pm

I see what you mean. Legally both names should have been filled in the DC but actually it shows only one of the names (Joseph)! affraid
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by infinitylady on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:43 pm

Because Joseph is his birth middle name. The Joe one may be a hoax. Why would Joseph and Joe be on both?
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by mj's badest B!-tch on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:51 pm

Ok...so, are we now saying that his (MJ) dc is real??? because the popular opinion was that "Joe" was/is his real name now I see the last poster on here who says it's "Joseph" Can anybody explain to me what the jist of the topic is a about because I'm having a hard time understanding where all of this is going. Thanks


GOD Bless.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by infinitylady on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:58 pm

From what I have read in the past, he has always gone by Michael Joseph Jackson.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:12 pm

Human_nature wrote:Here an example of an exact copy : James brown (2006) but it was not in California...


I thought all of the Elvis parallels were suspicious, but there are just as many James Brown parallels which makes this whole thing even more suspicious...

But anyway, back to the DC, I think it is the info that is filled in will be of more help than the color of the DC since it varies by each state and throughout the years

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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by dunno_it on Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:14 pm

no, it has been JOE!!!!
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by infinitylady on Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:15 pm

Ok, I am going to look at something. For some reason in one of his biographies, his name is mentioned.

The Joe may be the hoax.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by infinitylady on Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:27 pm

Michael Joseph Jackson (August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009), known as the "King of Pop", was an American musician and one of the most commercially successful and influential entertainers of all time. His unique contributions to music and dance, along with a highly publicized personal life, made him a prominent figure in popular culture for four decades.

I am sure Katherine didn't make a mistake.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by icy55 on Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:32 pm

I always hear MJ himself declaring himself as Joseph Jackson.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by infinitylady on Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:36 pm

I believe his middle name is Joseph. I have heard this been said in the past.

If Joe has been used anywhere, even being declared as Joseph Jackson, maybe he was doing this for a reason.

But no doubt it is Michael Joseph Jackson.

Joe is a nickname for Joseph.
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

Post by icy55 on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:14 pm

oh no! But maybe....? I dont know what to say. Sorry, I dont live in the US. So is this death cert valid or legitimate?
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Re: Here is what MUST be stated on a Death Certificate! No more confussion Joe or Joseph, but BOTH

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