The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph

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Post by Rach on Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:41 pm

Hey Guys,

So last night in my state of insomnia I got to thinking about all of the above and how it fits in with the hoax and here are my thoughts on this.

The Chidren's Birth Certificates:

If you haven't already done so I would suggest reading the following thread which was submitted by Bec via mjkit.

http://mjkit.forumotion.net/michael-jackson-hoax-death-theories-f2/i-know-why-the-kids-ids-were-revealed-just-weeks-before-6-25-t294.htm

It explains how the children were revealed to us weeks bfore June 25th because Michael was protecting them. I 100% agree with this theory but I wanted to look at it a little bit more indepth. If Michael was going to hoax his death, he would have needed to know that his children were well looked after and that no crazies would be able to go to court and question the parentage. However, he would need further documents to back this up.

As we all know Michael is a notoriously private person because he gets so little of it from fans and the media. Now it struck me as odd that in a hoax he would allow the children's BC's to be leaked, given how much he adores and protects them. Then it hit me - they are fake. There is no way that Michael would allow the real ones to be leaked, however he needed them in order to back up that the children were his, when they were born and that no-one could question the parentage. Check out the BC's below and see what stands out to you.

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph 68666205

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Parisjacksonbirthcertif

Now the copies aren't the greatest but you should be able to see that Debbie's middle name is spelt differently on both Prince's and Paris' BCs. On Prince's BC it is spelt "Jeanne" and on Paris' it is spelt "Jean". I looked up Debbie on Wikipedia and the correct spelling is Jeanne.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debbie_Rowe

Now I remember when my sister had her baby and she toook her to get registered she had to take her own BC with her as proof of who she was (which states her full LEGAL name), so there should be no reason why Debbie's name is seplt incorrectly. A birth certificate is a legal documents as well as an I.D and all names need to spelt correctly for such reasons. There is no way an official would make a mistake like that. However, if it was a mock up it doesn't matter. Perhaps if it was done in haste this is the reason for that? Also make a note of Michael's name becuae I will be coming to that next.

Michael's will and Joe -vs- Joseph.

Ok now here is where things get fun! Have a look at the copy of the 2002 will I found online and make a note of Michael's name.

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Michaeljacksonwillw

It states Michael's middle name as Joseph, the same as the BC's. Now have a look at the following pictures that have recently been leaked. They are Michael's old passport photos.

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Mjpassport

Now the same as a BC, a passport is a legal document and ID. I'm not sure what happens in the US but when you apply for a passport in the UK for the first time, you need to provide your BC as proof of who you are and where you were born and your personal details are taken from that. Now Michael's BC MUST have stated Joe if it was on his passport. I have looked high and low for Michael's BC but cannot find it anywhere. Yet his childrens were leaked? Please!

As we already know Michael's will would be invalid if the incorrect name is on there. However, what if it was never intended to be real but a mock up to fool us and the press? DreamsComeTrue advised me that there was an article in a magazine which stated that the will was NOT signed in the presence of a notary which is a must for it to be valid. There were also comments from TMZ in a live feed which stated that michael did indeed have a 2009 Will, but this was never followed up? Why not? That would invalidate a 2002 Will. If Michael really was dead this would need to be investigated.

Now have a look at the death certificate.

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph 5996michaeljacksondeath

Once again it states that Michael's middle name is Joseph. However, if we go on the basis of the passport photos we can come to the conclusion that Michael's real middle name is Joe. See what I'm getting at? Michael Joseph may be dead but Michael Joe isn't and no crime has been commited. Either the DC is either a fake or a person called Michael Joseph Jackson really did die.

The Pepsi Footage.

Now I have been thinking about this one for a long time and have come up with the following conclusion. This footage was NEVER meant to be seen. Michael was deeply embarrased about it and that's why he went to great lengths to buy all the copies and make sure that for 25 years it wasn't revealed to anyone. Now almost as soon as Michael "died" reports started to surface that Michael died of a drugf overdoe. This was even before an autopsy was done and results released to us.

Now Michael knew this was going to happen but he was unable to stop it, so he played the best hand available to him. He HAD to release that footage in order to save his image. Before that was released how many people do you think called him a "junkie" and a "drug abuser". I know a lot of people who did. However, after that was shown their perceptions of Michael changed. Many people felt sorry for him and they could see why he was "on drugs". Now Michael never wanted people to think he was a drug user, but he couldn't change what was been said. IMO releasing that tape had the desired effect that he wanted it to.

Anyway, I have rambled for far too long and I hope I haven't bored you!

Let me know what you think The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_smile

Rach xoxo
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Post by mjssoulmate on Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:09 pm

What do you mean by "leaked". Birthcertificate are public. You can look them up.

And the passports are the confusing part, because they are considered official ID and should have his complete name, not Joe. His middle name is Joseph.
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Post by juliet on Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:15 pm

Since MJ's supposed death, the children's identity were exposed through the media numerously. Deep in my heart, I don't think that they are his children because MJ has been concealing their identity from the day they were born to keep them safe. So, why in the world would he in any instance let the world in, especially the media, when in the first place he is trying to expose how the media works badly.

So, I feel good now that the birth certificates are being talked about and speculated.
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Post by Rach on Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:22 pm

mjssoulmate wrote:What do you mean by "leaked". Birthcertificate are public. You can look them up.

And the passports are the confusing part, because they are considered official ID and should have his complete name, not Joe. His middle name is Joseph.

You don't have to agree with me, you're free to believe what you like. This is all speculation on my part and could of course all be BS. That's why I added it to the "theories" section Smile
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Post by mjssoulmate on Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:29 pm

Didn't mean to offend! Just wondered what you meant.
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Post by Rach on Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:34 pm

mjssoulmate wrote:Didn't mean to offend! Just wondered what you meant.

You didn't offend me!

I will try and explain a bit better. I just find it odd that after many years of people speculating that Michael was NOT the Father to the 3 children that the BCs were shown to us after the "death". Why was this not done at the 2005 trial when it came up in court if Michael was the paternal Father?

What I meant by the passport was that your full legal name needs to be on there. It's not valid and cannot be given out to you if your full name is not on there. If Michael's middle name was Joseph it should have shown on his passport but it didn't. You need to show your BC when you get a passport and they take your details from that, so in order for it say Joe on the passport the BC must have said the same.
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Post by mjssoulmate on Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:41 pm

I agree about the passports. It's just very confusing, because every time there is a clip of Michael being asked what his full name he says Michael Joseph Jackson.
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Post by Rach on Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:43 pm

mjssoulmate wrote:I agree about the passports. It's just very confusing, because every time there is a clip of Michael being asked what his full name he says Michael Joseph Jackson.

I know that's where I start The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_scratch as well!

The only other possibility I can think of is that those passport pictures are fake. However, I cannot understand why someone would want to fake them? Hmmm, another thing to ponder.
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Post by DreamsComeTrue on Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:53 pm

Great theory Rachel, thanks!

About Joe/Joseph,

In a video posted by The Jacksonologist, it's the 2007 deposition! Here, the lawyer says MJ's full name...Michael JOE Jackson at 0:13 (please don't watch the rest, it's BS) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35vOt2znla8&feature=related

The name Michael JOE Jackson was also used on the 2005 trial!

I don't know about you guys, but I think JOE is his real middle name, and JOSEPH is just a ¨stage name¨...maybe? And I this confusion with the names will save Michael from legal issues when he comes back!
Personally, I rather believe The BCs of the children are false (I don't think Michel would reveal that to the public), The will is fake and the passaports are the real ones!

And I think the JOE/JOSEPH middle name (one is false) was made up by Michael to create confusion...

Think about! How many times, in the past 3 months we where confused by something? From the O2 Michael's behaviour to the, to the false statments and ambulance photo and video...and now his middle name? This is like a SF movie, not reality!

What do we know so far? Are we sure about something related to the ¨death¨? We all are confused...by Michael (Joe) Jackson...

I think this middle name is another trick of Michael...and we know how he likes to play... The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_lol

Just a thought...

About children's name...

I always knew that the children's name are:
1. Prince Michael Jackson I
2. Paris Katherine Michael Jackson
3. Prince Michael Jackson II (Blanket)
This is what I read before 25th of June! Only this names...but after 25th...all started to be...again...CONFUSING!

About the Pespsi footage (and the van video and Doc Murray's speech video)...all were leaked by Michael! For a HUGE purpose!
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Post by Rach on Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:05 pm

DreamsComeTrue - We are so on the same page with this because I agree with everything you said!

I said in my op there is NO WAY Michael would allow the real BC's to be shown so mock ups were created. Also the real ones wouldn't have a spelling mistake on them.
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Post by ForeverAutumn65 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:13 pm

~never mind~

It was already mentioned above..sorry.
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Post by Rach on Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:15 pm

ForeverAutumn65 wrote:I've never gotten a passport, but wouldn't you have to present your BC to get one? If that's the case and the passports are for real then his middle name would have to be JOE. Just thinking.

B-I-N-G-O!!!!

That's the point I am getting at. You need to present a BC to get a passport because it's your form of ID and is the only thing you can show to prove who you are.

Now, either the passport pictures are real and the rest of the stuff we have been shown is fake, or the passport pictures are fake.

I personally think the passport pictures are real, which means the BC's and the will are all fake, along with the DC - which would mean no crime has been commited! Very Happy
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Post by ForeverAutumn65 on Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:34 pm

Rach wrote:
ForeverAutumn65 wrote:I've never gotten a passport, but wouldn't you have to present your BC to get one? If that's the case and the passports are for real then his middle name would have to be JOE. Just thinking.





I personally think the passport pictures are real, which means the BC's and the will are all fake, along with the DC - which would mean no crime has been commited! The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_biggrin

Can we say "loop-hole"?!
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Post by Loree on Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:27 pm

SOO his real name is Michael JOE Jackson!! The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_cheers The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_cheers The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_cheers
Thanks Rachel!
this really helped Very Happy
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Post by Rach on Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:39 pm

Loree wrote:SOO his real name is Michael JOE Jackson!! The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_cheers The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_cheers The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_cheers
Thanks Rachel!
this really helped The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_biggrin

I don't know that for sure but if the passport pictures are real then it would seem that way Smile

I am still looking for more solid evidence to back it up so I will post if/when I find some!
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Post by shirley-grace on Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:50 pm

I think the pic are real. I mean look at the signature, that's the real one.
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:04 am

mjssoulmate wrote:I agree about the passports. It's just very confusing, because every time there is a clip of Michael being asked what his full name he says Michael Joseph Jackson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8hzaYNdNM
Have a look at that link (esp. 2.10 min). I know there are confusions about the name.
Here is also a thread including that link, but it´s faster this way.
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:13 am

I´m more into the Joe-thing, of course, but another thing... if Michael´s parents gave him a second name, I suppose they wanted it to be his father´s name. And isn´t the father´s legal name Joseph? Why call the son Joe then?

I found Jo Vonnie´s BC, Joseph Jackson´s daughter (MJs half-sister), where his name is Joseph. (Don´t know if this is of any importance, but it made me wonder).

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Johvonnie-jackson-pic-wes-hargrave-image-3-427074446
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Post by amy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:47 am

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Fresse
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Post by See on Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:03 am

Would this explain Prince the second???

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/prince-michael-malachi-jet-jackson-mjs-24-year-old-son

<BLOCKQUOTE class=np-quote-detail cite=http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-michael-malachi-jet-jackson-biological/>
A birth certificate was submitted with the claim -- one which lists a "Michael Joseph Jackson" of Indiana as the father and Zerline LaVette Dixon as the mother.

According to the claim, MJ's family pressured Prince Michael Malachi's family to keep quiet.




Yeah I know.... The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_rolleyes </BLOCKQUOTE>
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Post by shirley-grace on Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:14 am

See wrote:Would this explain Prince the second???

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/prince-michael-malachi-jet-jackson-mjs-24-year-old-son

<blockquote class="np-quote-detail" cite="http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/26/michael-jackson-son-prince-michael-malachi-jet-jackson-biological/">
A birth certificate was submitted with the claim -- one which lists a "Michael Joseph Jackson" of Indiana as the father and Zerline LaVette Dixon as the mother.

According to the claim, MJ's family pressured Prince Michael Malachi's family to keep quiet.




Yeah I know.... The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_rolleyes </blockquote>

Source: tmz.com The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Lol
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Post by See on Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:24 am

Yeah I know...tmz The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_rolleyes ....LOL
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:35 am

Does someone have opinions on the father/son name (which I mentioned above)?
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Post by ValeNova on Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:43 am

I just want to ask this: is a person's social security number listed in US passports? In my country they are in fact listed right next to the other identification information...
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Post by See on Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:52 am

ValeNova wrote:I just want to ask this: is a person's social security number listed in US passports? In my country they are in fact listed right next to the other identification information...

Good question, in my country it is listed in your passport... the nr. 034643028 on the passport of Michael, is usually the place were they put your SSN here...Don't know about the US.
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Post by See on Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:02 am

See wrote:
ValeNova wrote:I just want to ask this: is a person's social security number listed in US passports? In my country they are in fact listed right next to the other identification information...

Good question, in my country it is listed in your passport... the nr. 034643028 on the passport of Michael, is usually the place were they put your SSN here...Don't know about the US.

Wenn I google this number all I get are somethings in Spanish (I think LOL) could some Spanish speaking person see if there is something interesting about this beeing said???
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Post by shirley-grace on Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:13 am

Nope, no SSN on U.S. Pasports
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Post by DreamsComeTrue on Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:20 am

See wrote:
See wrote:
ValeNova wrote:I just want to ask this: is a person's social security number listed in US passports? In my country they are in fact listed right next to the other identification information...

Good question, in my country it is listed in your passport... the nr. 034643028 on the passport of Michael, is usually the place were they put your SSN here...Don't know about the US.

Wenn I google this number all I get are somethings in Spanish (I think LOL) could some Spanish speaking person see if there is something interesting about this beeing said???

http://www.vegateve.com/portal//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=919

In this article they are talking about MJ's marriage to LMP! And they show the number from each passport! And that's Michael's passport! Interesting is that they mention JOSEPH instead JOE! I mean, if the number is from the passport Rachel posted, with Joe as middle name, why are they calling him JOSEPH???

República Dominicana, a los 26 días del mes de mayo del año 1994: ante el Licenciado Hugo Francisco Álvarez Pérez contrajeron matrimonio civil los señores Michael Joseph Jackson, de 35 años de edad, ciudadano estadounidense, cantante, pasaporte Nº 034643028, hijo de Joseph Jackson y de Katherine Jackson; y Lisa Marie Presley Keough, de 26 años, ciudadana estadounidense, actriz, pasaporte No 032734072, hija de Elvis Aaron Presley y de Priscila Presley. Dicha ceremonia se efectuó en presencia de los testigos Eve Darling y Thomas Keosch".
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Post by ValeNova on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:05 am

DreamsComeTrue wrote:
See wrote:
See wrote:
ValeNova wrote:I just want to ask this: is a person's social security number listed in US passports? In my country they are in fact listed right next to the other identification information...

Good question, in my country it is listed in your passport... the nr. 034643028 on the passport of Michael, is usually the place were they put your SSN here...Don't know about the US.

Wenn I google this number all I get are somethings in Spanish (I think LOL) could some Spanish speaking person see if there is something interesting about this beeing said???

http://www.vegateve.com/portal//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=919

In this article they are talking about MJ's marriage to LMP! And they show the number from each passport! And that's Michael's passport! Interesting is that they mention JOSEPH instead JOE! I mean, if the number is from the passport Rachel posted, with Joe as middle name, why are they calling him JOSEPH???


República Dominicana, a los 26 días del mes de mayo del año 1994: ante el Licenciado Hugo Francisco Álvarez Pérez contrajeron matrimonio civil los señores Michael Joseph Jackson, de 35 años de edad, ciudadano estadounidense, cantante, pasaporte Nº 034643028, hijo de Joseph Jackson y de Katherine Jackson; y Lisa Marie Presley Keough, de 26 años, ciudadana estadounidense, actriz, pasaporte No 032734072, hija de Elvis Aaron Presley y de Priscila Presley. Dicha ceremonia se efectuó en presencia de los testigos Eve Darling y Thomas Keosch".

Hmmm... Questions just keep popping up in my head... When people from my country decide to marry in a different country, they still have to make that marriage formal in our country. Otherwise they are NOT married. Can anybody tell if that is also the case with US citizens who marry in a different country...
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:08 am

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:I´m more into the Joe-thing, of course, but another thing... if Michael´s parents gave him a second name, I suppose they wanted it to be his father´s name. And isn´t the father´s legal name Joseph? Why call the son Joe then?

I found Jo Vonnie´s BC, Joseph Jackson´s daughter (MJs half-sister), where his name is Joseph. (Don´t know if this is of any importance, but it made me wonder).

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Johvonnie-jackson-pic-wes-hargrave-image-3-427074446

Again...does someone have an answer??
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Post by ValeNova on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:22 am

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:
GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:I´m more into the Joe-thing, of course, but another thing... if Michael´s parents gave him a second name, I suppose they wanted it to be his father´s name. And isn´t the father´s legal name Joseph? Why call the son Joe then?

I found Jo Vonnie´s BC, Joseph Jackson´s daughter (MJs half-sister), where his name is Joseph. (Don´t know if this is of any importance, but it made me wonder).

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Johvonnie-jackson-pic-wes-hargrave-image-3-427074446

Again...does someone have an answer??

I don't find that strange at all. I'm named after my aunt, but my aunt told my parent not to use it like that. She insisted that my parents would alter it a bit, because she didn't like that name herself (it was kind of a male name). And I know about a lot of other people where the same happened... So perhaps that happened here as well...

BTW: this BC is very interesting... It says 'Amended' on it. Does that mean that it has been altered?
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Post by See on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:25 am

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:
GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:I´m more into the Joe-thing, of course, but another thing... if Michael´s parents gave him a second name, I suppose they wanted it to be his father´s name. And isn´t the father´s legal name Joseph? Why call the son Joe then?

I found Jo Vonnie´s BC, Joseph Jackson´s daughter (MJs half-sister), where his name is Joseph. (Don´t know if this is of any importance, but it made me wonder).

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Johvonnie-jackson-pic-wes-hargrave-image-3-427074446

Again...does someone have an answer??


I would like to give you an answer LOL... but I don't know...
I could however tell you what I think... And what I think is that you are right, it would be only logical to give his fathers name... But I thought Michael was named after his grandfather JOE!
I'm not shure tho, but there are alot more things I'm not shure about...

Maybe ppl assumed that Joe was a short for Joshep and ppl got to know him by that name... so Michael just addopted the name Joseph..
OR
Michael beeing a perfectionist and all, he just did not like to have Joe as his middle name...Joseph sounded better for him maybe, and he thought Joe was a Hillbilly name LOL (don't know how to discribe it)...
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Post by See on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:26 am

What does amended mean???
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Post by ValeNova on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:32 am

See wrote:What does amended mean???

a·mend (-mnd)
v. a·mend·ed, a·mend·ing, a·mends
v.tr.
1. To change for the better; improve: amended the earlier proposal so as to make it more comprehensive.
2. To remove the faults or errors in; correct. See Synonyms at correct.
3. To alter (a legislative measure, for example) formally by adding, deleting, or rephrasing.
4. To enrich (soil), especially by mixing in organic matter or sand.

So this BC must have been altered, right?
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:36 am

ValeNova wrote:
GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:
GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:I´m more into the Joe-thing, of course, but another thing... if Michael´s parents gave him a second name, I suppose they wanted it to be his father´s name. And isn´t the father´s legal name Joseph? Why call the son Joe then?

I found Jo Vonnie´s BC, Joseph Jackson´s daughter (MJs half-sister), where his name is Joseph. (Don´t know if this is of any importance, but it made me wonder).

The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Johvonnie-jackson-pic-wes-hargrave-image-3-427074446

Again...does someone have an answer??

I don't find that strange at all. I'm named after my aunt, but my aunt told my parent not to use it like that. She insisted that my parents would alter it a bit, because she didn't like that name herself (it was kind of a male name). And I know about a lot of other people where the same happened... So perhaps that happened here as well...

BTW: this BC is very interesting... It says 'Amended' on it. Does that mean that it has been altered?

Hm, you´re right..."amended" would make you think it was somehow corrected or so... I don´t know. Weird stuff. (Maybe not important for hoax-investigation, the BC at all, but I thought...weird. The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_smile
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Post by See on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:39 am

ValeNova wrote:
See wrote:What does amended mean???

a·mend (-mnd)
v. a·mend·ed, a·mend·ing, a·mends
v.tr.
1. To change for the better; improve: amended the earlier proposal so as to make it more comprehensive.
2. To remove the faults or errors in; correct. See Synonyms at correct.
3. To alter (a legislative measure, for example) formally by adding, deleting, or rephrasing.
4. To enrich (soil), especially by mixing in organic matter or sand.

So this BC must have been altered, right?


Thanks for that The children's BCs, Will, Pepsi Footage and Joe -vs- Joseph Icon_biggrin .....

So maybe Joe Jackson changed his name into Joseph after Michael changed it... could that be???
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:39 am

But isn´t Prince´s legal name Michael Joseph Jackson Jr.? Why "Joseph" then - if his, MJs- name is Joe? Urgh, this is too confusing...
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Post by See on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:42 am

Is august 27th 1982 the date of amendment???
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Post by See on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:46 am

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:But isn´t Prince´s legal name Michael Joseph Jackson Jr.? Why "Joseph" then - if his, MJs- name is Joe? Urgh, this is too confusing...

I know what you mean I wonderd the same thing... I don't think Michael would name his son after his dad Joe.
And like dave dave said, I took this name cuz I did wanted to be my own person... My father is a criminal...
Wouldn't Michael have done the same???
And Joe then changed his name in to Joseph too!!! Since he is the father
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Post by ValeNova on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:49 am

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:But isn´t Prince´s legal name Michael Joseph Jackson Jr.? Why "Joseph" then - if his, MJs- name is Joe? Urgh, this is too confusing...

Perhaps I can explain that. I have done a lot of research into my family tree, and I've seen a lot of other's family trees as well. Common thing is this: parents name their MALE child after the father of the father (the grandfather of the baby), a daughter would be named after the mother of the mother (grandmother). So the male name will be continued into the male branch, whereas the female name will continue into the female branch. Another aspect of this is that a name will always skip a generation.

Just to stick to my own family tree: person named Jacob names is son Peter after his own father. This Peter then calls his son Jacob again after his father. If you continue this, you'll end up with Peter - Jacob - Peter - Jacob...

So if MJ's grandfather would be a Joe, it is very likely that Joseph Jackson (MJ dad) would use Joe for his son's name. And it would also be a logic thing for MJ to use his fathers name again for his son (being Joseph).

I hope I have explained this in a way you can understand... It's a very, very, very common thing within families. Really!
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:53 am

ValeNova wrote:
GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:But isn´t Prince´s legal name Michael Joseph Jackson Jr.? Why "Joseph" then - if his, MJs- name is Joe? Urgh, this is too confusing...

Perhaps I can explain that. I have done a lot of research into my family tree, and I've seen a lot of other's family trees as well. Common thing is this: parents name their MALE child after the father of the father (the grandfather of the baby), a daughter would be named after the mother of the mother (grandmother). So the male name will be continued into the male branch, whereas the female name will continue into the female branch. Another aspect of this is that a name will always skip a generation.

Just to stick to my own family tree: person named Jacob names is son Peter after his own father. This Peter then calls his son Jacob again after his father. If you continue this, you'll end up with Peter - Jacob - Peter - Jacob...

So if MJ's grandfather would be a Joe, it is very likely that Joseph Jackson (MJ dad) would use Joe for his son's name. And it would also be a logic thing for MJ to use his fathers name again for his son (being Joseph).

I hope I have explained this in a way you can understand... It's a very, very, very common thing within families. Really!
Yeah, I understand what you mean. This could be right.
But I wondered about the whole name, not only the Joseph in it.
Michael Joseph Jackson Jr. - wouldn´t that mean his father´s (MJ) name is the same, just without the "Jr." attached?
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Post by ValeNova on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:56 am

Perhaps he used the Jr, because MJ decided to also use his own name?
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:58 am

ValeNova wrote:Perhaps he used the Jr, because MJ decided to also use his own name?
Huh? Jeez, my brain lost track, haha. Wasn´t his name Joe? Sorry for asking again...
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Post by WanaBstartnSthn on Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:23 am

I agree with you Rach about ur theory but the part where u say the name must be spelled correctly on you bc is not true. My middle name is Rachel but they spelled it Racheal on my bc. Also my first name on my bc is spelled "Betheny" but it's really "Bethany" wow they really screwed up my bc! Lol
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:37 am

WanaBstartnSthn wrote:I agree with you Rach about ur theory but the part where u say the name must be spelled correctly on you bc is not true. My middle name is Rachel but they spelled it Racheal on my bc. Also my first name on my bc is spelled "Betheny" but it's really "Bethany" wow they really screwed up my bc! Lol
Lol, yeah, haha.
But Joe and Joseph is like two different names, not like writing "Joseph" or "Josef"...that would still be the same name. (Like "Bethany" or "Betheny").
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Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:04 am

Ok, this is VERY important. I need everyones help with this one.

I saw on Entertainment Tonight (I know...) about a month ago maybe an unreleased vid of MJ. The vid was MJ UNDER OATH about a breach of contract lawsuit back in 2005 ( I think). the lawyer, judge or whoever it was that was questioing him had him raise his right hand and state and spell his full name. Mj .....out of his own mouth, said "MICHEAL JOSEPH JACKSON" and then he spelled it.
Now for the life of me I cannot find a copy of this vid. Its not on ETonline.com....I have looked at youtube for it, but it could be listed under a million different titles.......SO...if any of you can help me find this vid I think it would be very interesting concerning Joe vs. Joseph.

In the vid MJ is wearing a red shirt and he is sitting in a court room or some sort of room in a legal building...PLEASE HELP ME FIND THIS!!!! Thanks
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Post by yaya on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:10 am

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Ok, this is VERY important. I need everyones help with this one.

I saw on Entertainment Tonight (I know...) about a month ago maybe an unreleased vid of MJ. The vid was MJ UNDER OATH about a breach of contract lawsuit back in 2005 ( I think). the lawyer, judge or whoever it was that was questioing him had him raise his right hand and state and spell his full name. Mj .....out of his own mouth, said "MICHEAL JOSEPH JACKSON" and then he spelled it.
Now for the life of me I cannot find a copy of this vid. Its not on ETonline.com....I have looked at youtube for it, but it could be listed under a million different titles.......SO...if any of you can help me find this vid I think it would be very interesting concerning Joe vs. Joseph.

In the vid MJ is wearing a red shirt and he is sitting in a court room or some sort of room in a legal building...PLEASE HELP ME FIND THIS!!!! Thanks

i remember seeing that! but i can't find the vid anywhere either...
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Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:15 am

yaya wrote:
THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Ok, this is VERY important. I need everyones help with this one.

I saw on Entertainment Tonight (I know...) about a month ago maybe an unreleased vid of MJ. The vid was MJ UNDER OATH about a breach of contract lawsuit back in 2005 ( I think). the lawyer, judge or whoever it was that was questioing him had him raise his right hand and state and spell his full name. Mj .....out of his own mouth, said "MICHEAL JOSEPH JACKSON" and then he spelled it.
Now for the life of me I cannot find a copy of this vid. Its not on ETonline.com....I have looked at youtube for it, but it could be listed under a million different titles.......SO...if any of you can help me find this vid I think it would be very interesting concerning Joe vs. Joseph.

In the vid MJ is wearing a red shirt and he is sitting in a court room or some sort of room in a legal building...PLEASE HELP ME FIND THIS!!!! Thanks

i remember seeing that! but i can't find the vid anywhere either...

you saw it on TV as well? Thank God!!! At least I have someone to back me up in this. MJ said himself under oath that his name was Michael JOSEPH Jackson.....the first thing I thought of was "uhhhh....then who is Joe?" LOL!!

We need to find this video. Seriously.
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Post by ValeNova on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:20 am

I saw that as well, but I have also seen statement where MJ himself states his middlename as 'Joe'. So I really don't know what to believe!

I'll try find them.
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:25 am

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:
yaya wrote:
THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Ok, this is VERY important. I need everyones help with this one.

I saw on Entertainment Tonight (I know...) about a month ago maybe an unreleased vid of MJ. The vid was MJ UNDER OATH about a breach of contract lawsuit back in 2005 ( I think). the lawyer, judge or whoever it was that was questioing him had him raise his right hand and state and spell his full name. Mj .....out of his own mouth, said "MICHEAL JOSEPH JACKSON" and then he spelled it.
Now for the life of me I cannot find a copy of this vid. Its not on ETonline.com....I have looked at youtube for it, but it could be listed under a million different titles.......SO...if any of you can help me find this vid I think it would be very interesting concerning Joe vs. Joseph.

In the vid MJ is wearing a red shirt and he is sitting in a court room or some sort of room in a legal building...PLEASE HELP ME FIND THIS!!!! Thanks

i remember seeing that! but i can't find the vid anywhere either...

you saw it on TV as well? Thank God!!! At least I have someone to back me up in this. MJ said himself under oath that his name was Michael JOSEPH Jackson.....the first thing I thought of was "uhhhh....then who is Joe?" LOL!!

We need to find this video. Seriously.
i think i saw it too, but i´m not sure as i saw sooo many videos over the past few months...
but why is the jury then saying "joe"..?
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