Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

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Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by Rach on Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:42 am

Hey Guys,

I had a thought last night/this morning about the leaked autopsy reports that we have been shown and I wanted to have a closer look at them both. So this afternoon I started to compile a list of information from what "The Sun" reported back on 29th June and what the "Associated Press" have given us over the last few days and I came up with some interesting findings. While they are both quite similar in their findings, there are also some major differences which I noticed. Below are the links to the findings I was working from so you can have a look for yourself and add to this thread if there is anything I have missed!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/oc ... on-autopsy

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... topsy.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... Popup=true

Hair and face

"The Sun" report suggests that Michael was virtually bald with "peach fuzz" on his head. The "Associated press" report states that Michael had short, tightly curled hair. They both contradict the other.

"The Sun" reports suggests that Michael's face was awash with plastic surgery scars. The "AP" states the same, but goes into more details about how scars were evident on the nostrils and behind the ears. However, "The Sun" states that Michael's nose was caved in on the right side. This is not evident on the ambulance photo. In fact, Michael's nose in the ambulance photo looks in great condition. I have added a picture for you to have a look at.



Ribs and Chest

"The Sun" report states that Michael's ribs were broken in an attempt to revive him. The "AP" also reported the same. "The Sun" states that Michael's heart had four injection sites where attempts were made to revive him. The "AP" report also says the same thing. Again, they agree on this but differ on major parts regarding Michael's face.

Michael's stomach

"The Sun" reported that Michael only had pills in his stomach at the time of his "death". However, this wasn't followed up in the "AP" report and IMO is a big part of an autopsy. In fact, I don't believe that the "AP" report stated anything about Michael's stomach and whether or not food or pills were found in it. I remember when Heath Ledger passed away and I am almost positive this information was shown on the autopsy report, because it is a great indicater of how a drug abuser was living before they died.

Weight and height

"The Sun" first reported that Michael weighed 8st 1oz when he died which is 112lbs. The "AP" report says that Michael weighed 9 stone 6lbs which is 136lbs. I have never heard of a case where a dead person has put ON weight!

"The Sun" also reported that Michael was 5'10 in height, while the "AP" said that he was 5'9. While it's not a massive difference, it's still an inconsistency.

Skin and scars

There was no mention of Michael having vitiligo in "The Sun" report, which you would think would be a massive thing to mention in an autopsy report. People have been questioning this for as long as Michael had the disease so this would be the perfect time to clear it up. The "AP" reported that Michael DID have vitiligo, "around his face, chest, abdomen and arms".

"The Sun" also followed up on the skin cancer reports by stating that Michael had a scar on his chest from from where the cancer had been removed and the wound was infection free. Again no mention of this in the "AP" report and IMO, this is a huge deal.

Legs and body

"The Sun" reported that Michael had unexplained bruising on his knees and both shins. There was no reports of this during the "AP" report, which again could have given more indicatation as to how Michael "died".

"The Sun" stated Michael's body was riddled in injection marks and this doesn't appear in the autopsy report from the "AP". It does however state that Michael had scars on his knee from a possible cosmetic procedure.

Neither autopsy mentions the spider bite which Michael got in 2002.

Lungs and tattoos

The "AP" report leads by stating that Michael had lung damage, which caused him to be short of breath but would not have been resposible for his "death". Again, no mention of this in "The Sun" reports, but this ties in with what Ian Halperin said back in January about how Michael had 6 months left to live.

The "AP" report also states that Michael had tattooed eyebrows, lips and a large dark tattoo across "his balding head". There was no mention of this in "The Sun", but they did pick up on the fact that Michael's left ear was virtually burnt following the Pepsi incident. Why did they not state Michael was tattoed if this was the case? They could open his stomach and see that he had no food, just pills, but not pick up on the fact Michael had a large tattoo on his head?

Summary

I want to come back to BOTH reports for a moment, because the one thing that they agree on is the fact that Michael had bruised and cracked ribs following frantic attempts to revive him. The also both state that Michael had very little hair, even though they differ on what condition that hair was in. Now look back again at the ambulance picture. Michael has long hair. You can clearly see it around his shoulders. This leads me to the assumption he was wearing a wig. Now if this is the case, how could he have gained brusied and cracked ribs from frantic resuscitation attempts, but yet the wig stayed in place?

Also The Jackson's stated that they didn't want an open casket at the memorial because Michael's face was damaged from the attempts to revive him. Again, in the above picture Michael's face looks fine to me. Also, the day before the memorial the family were given a private viewing of Michael in the casket, and the children were reported to have seen him just after he "died". Again conflicting statements. You wouldn't show a child their dead Father if they were so badly injured. La Toya and several other family members have been quoted as saying "Michael looked peaceful, just like he was sleeping" and there is no mention of any facial injuries in either report. So that leads me to one conclusion. There was simply no body in the casket and the Jackson's had to come up with a lie as to why an open casket could not happen, and it's not showing on either autopsy because it's simply not true.

Anyway, thanks for reading and I hope I haven't bored you all too much! I would love to know what you all think and please feel free to add to this thread as you see fit

Rach.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:03 am

You didnt bore me Rach!!

Also, didnt the EMT's when they arrived at the house state that they didnt recognize MJ and said he looked like a frail old man? and that he WAS bald, yet the ambie photo shows him with hair. did they put the wig on him before taking him to the hospital?

And whats the deal with the left ear? Im so confused about this. Weve all seen pics of MJ (or so we think its him) with a messed up ear, but then in other photos his ear looks fine.


AP also did not mention the left ear in their report....
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by Stillalive on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:07 am

A clear and concise summary which confirms that the newspapers are lying (or do not know what they are writing about).
Maybe newspapers should require their sources to be more accurate?


And not yet official statement.

BTW I keep wondering what happened at Dr.Murray...

Patrizia.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by lovelidae on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:11 am

Great work Rach, excellent observations my friend.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by juliet on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:12 am

Thanks for the compilation and your hard work is always appreciated.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:14 am

This is comming from Michael.

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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by See on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:19 am

Great post Rach.. you really gave us a good insight on the reports.
That really puts things in perspective, thank you!
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by Rach on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:25 am

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:You didnt bore me Rach!!

Also, didnt the EMT's when they arrived at the house state that they didnt recognize MJ and said he looked like a frail old man? and that he WAS bald, yet the ambie photo shows him with hair. did they put the wig on him before taking him to the hospital?

And whats the deal with the left ear? Im so confused about this. Weve all seen pics of MJ (or so we think its him) with a messed up ear, but then in other photos his ear looks fine.


AP also did not mention the left ear in their report....

LOL I was thinking the same thing about a wig! Maybe Murray put it on Michael before he left because he is a secret hair stylist?!

Ok seriously, it's so odd. How can two autopsy reports that have supposed to have been leaked from the same place/person and done on the same body be so different? How come there are vital things, like the vitiligo and the ear missing from one or both reports?

It makes no sense to me
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by jade jackson on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:35 am

Very good post. I agree with you. I don't think there ever was a body. I think the ambulance photo was either not Michael or else it was photoshopped, which is the more likely conclusion since it would be virtually impossible to get that shot through a small tinted window. I think it was probably photoshopped from a picture of him when he was younger. But this does nothing to contradict your theory. I agree completely with your conclusion.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by city.gal1 on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:38 am

The original news that I saw on the AP report was on TMZ, where it stated that there were no pills found in Michael's stomach. http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0Shsn9TGw

Subsequently, I didn't see mention of this in any of the news coverage and I made note of this in one of the other threads a couple of days ago.

Now I've gone back to see what else I could find and here is the AP release on the NY Times site: (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/10/01/arts/AP-US-Michael-Jackson-Autopsy.html?_r=1&sq=michael jackson autopsy&st=cse&scp=2&pagewanted=print)
October 1, 2009


AP Exclusive: Autopsy Shocker: Jackson Was Healthy

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 10:45 p.m. ET
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Michael Jackson's outward appearance was marred when he died with puncture marks to his arms, surgical scars around his body and cosmetic tattoos on his lips and scalp.
But internally, the pop star was in mostly fine physical shape for a 50-year-old man, according to his autopsy report obtained by The Associated Press.
The Los Angeles County coroner's report shows Jackson's weight of 136 pounds was in the acceptable range for a 5-foot-9 man. His heart was strong with no sign of plaque buildup. His kidneys and most other major organs were normal.
The singer did have health issues, however, including arthritis in the lower spine and some fingers, and mild plaque buildup in his leg arteries. Most serious was the condition of his lungs, which the autopsy report said were chronically inflamed and had reduced capacity that might have left him short of breath.
But the lung condition was not serious enough to be a direct or contributing cause of death, according to the document.
''His overall health was fine,'' said Dr. Zeev Kain, chairman of the anesthesiology department at the University of California, Irvine, who reviewed a copy of the autopsy report for the AP. ''The results are within normal limits.''
Kain, who was not involved in the autopsy, said most of the scars appeared to be from plastic surgery though others, like a scar on the knee, could have been from a medical procedure.
The medical examiner found numerous punctures on both arms and on a knee and ankle. The leg punctures could have been from intravenous therapies not described in the autopsy report, Kain said.
Jackson had several tattoos, all of them cosmetic, including dark tattoos in the areas of both eyebrows and under his eyes, and a pink tattoo around his lips.
The singer died at his rented Los Angeles mansion June 25 after his personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, administered the anesthetic propofol and two other sedatives to get the chronic insomniac to sleep, court documents state. Propofol, normally a surgical anesthetic used in operating rooms, acts as a respiratory depressant and requires constant monitoring.
Murray told police he left the room to use the bathroom and phone records show he also made calls for 47 minutes around the time Jackson encountered problems. When Murray realized Jackson was unresponsive, he began frantic efforts to revive him, but Jackson never regained consciousness and was declared dead at the University of California, Los Angeles Medical Center.
The coroner's office announced last month that Jackson's death was a homicide caused by ''acute propofol intoxication,'' with the other sedatives listed as a contributing factor. They said the standard of care for administering propofol was not met and the recommended equipment for patient monitoring, precision dosing and resuscitation was missing.
Murray is the target of what Los Angeles police term a manslaughter investigation. The decision on criminal charges will come from the Los Angeles County district attorney's office. Murray has been interviewed twice by police.
Except for a brief video posted to YouTube, Murray has not spoken publicly since Jackson's death. In the video, Murray said: ''I told the truth and I have faith the truth will prevail.''
Murray's attorney, Edward Chernoff, said he was anxious to see the full autopsy results and would not comment until he had done so. He added that he stood by his original statement that Murray did not administer anything that ''should have'' killed Jackson.
Jackson was declared dead a little more than two hours after paramedics were called. Evidence of the desperate struggle to save the star were evident on his body. He had chest bruising and cracked ribs from CPR, and a mechanical device known as a balloon pump was inserted into his heart to try to restart it, according to the autopsy report.
Jackson's body was taken by helicopter to the coroner's office where the following morning Chief Medical Examiner Lakshmanan Sathyavagiswaran and Dr. Christopher Rogers carried out an extensive review and ordered a toxicology screening to look for drugs in his system.
Aside from propofol and the sedatives, the only substances found in his system were the local anesthetic, Lidocaine, sometimes used to numb injection sites and ephedrine, a commonly used resuscitation stimulant.
No other drugs -- legal or otherwise -- were detected, nor was any alcohol.
Kain said he was surprised that three other sedatives, known as benzodiazepines, were present with propofol. Anesthesiologists sometimes mix one ''benzo'' with propofol to help put a patient under, but using three increases the danger for the patient.
''People don't mix the benzodiazepines together because they interact with each other and increase the risk of respiratory arrest,'' Kain said, adding it was likely Jackson first stopped breathing and then suffered cardiac arrest.
Court records state Murray told police he administered 25 milligrams of propofol to Jackson. But that's a very small dose that would not have kept the star under for long, raising questions about whether Murray misspoke or police misinterpreted what he told them.
The autopsy report says the drug was detected in several samples taken from Jackson's system but does not provide an estimate of the dosage. Kain said it's difficult to calculate the dose based on the report's data because, among other things, the precise time Jackson died and stopped processing the drug is not known.
The autopsy findings cut off a potential defense for Murray -- that Jackson hid serious pre-existing conditions that increased the risk of death from the drugs he willingly took. Even if he did hide a condition such as his weakened lungs, a prosecutor could argue Murray should have detected the condition before administering drugs, said Michael Brennan, a clinical law professor at the University of Southern California who specializes in criminal defense.
''A doctor has some obligation to know what his patient's physical condition is,'' Brennan said. ''The doctor is going to try to substantiate whatever the patient told him ... and not simply rely on a patient's descriptions of his physical condition.''
At the time of his death Jackson was preparing for a series of comeback concerts in London. Rehearsals were rigorous and there were questions about whether Jackson would be physically able to hold up.
But aside from his lungs, the autopsy report did not identify any serious physical problems that might have limited Jackson's ability to perform. It also said he was actively producing sperm.
The report provided details about Jackson's state from head to toes.
He had a 3/4-inch scar behind his left ear and another apparent scar behind his right ear. He had a scar beside each of his nostrils and another, 4-inch scar on his right shoulder. He had a pair of additional scars about 3-inches long at the base of his neck and smaller scars on his arms and wrist. He also had a small scar near his navel and a 2-inch scar on the right-hand side of his abdomen.
He was going bald at the front of his head, with his remaining hair described as short and tightly curled. The bald part of his scalp was darkened with what appeared to be a tattoo stretching across the top of his head from ear to ear.
The coroner found depigmentation of his skin around his chest, abdomen, face and arms.
Los Angeles Police Department spokeswoman April Harding said the investigation was ongoing and she couldn't comment further.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by Ilovemjstill on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:40 am

Good job Rach, Thanks for putting this on here.



''They key to change......is to let go fear.''
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by city.gal1 on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:49 am

Forgot to thank you for your comparitive post --excellent recap.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by Grace on Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:01 am

Rach wrote:
[...]
"The Sun" reported that Michael only had pills in his stomach at the time of his "death".
[...]
I have never heard of a case where a dead person has put ON weight!
[...]
Neither autopsy mentions the spider bite which Michael got in 2002.
[...]
Now if this is the case, how could he have gained brusied and cracked ribs from frantic resuscitation attempts, but yet the wig stayed in place?
[...]
because Michael's face was damaged from the attempts to revive him.
[...]
"Michael looked peaceful, just like he was sleeping"
[...]
because it's simply not true.

because the people having their vivid phantasies on "damn why did I get that job - what could I write about Michael Jackson and I don't even know anything about him" did in fact not know anything about him and because both reports are pure fiction.

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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by jpresley on Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:19 am

Great post, Rach! I concur completely.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by mjj29081958 on Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:20 am

No, it makes no sense at all!!

Analyzing the two reports together, you can clearly see (lot of) differences!!

Who's lying? both, if you ask me!

Good job!!!
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by See on Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:48 am

So the old report is fake and this is real then????
If they were giving false information then, why give true ones now???
Is there anything real about this whole thing???

LOL are we in the Twilight Zone???
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by mjthelegendlives on Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:48 am

good job Rach. Thanks for putting this up all together. I agree the reports aren't consistent. About the wig... I was wondering why they would put a wig on if it was an emergency? I mean thats the last thing I would think about lol.

I think MJ did wear a straight hair wig in occassions, but his hair in rehearsals seemed so natural...it was messy and with soft curls like in "Dangerous" era.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by yitsy on Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:04 am

Correct me if I'm wrong here. But I thought I read that all the previous autopsy reports prior to this one in October were all BS? Wasn't that established a while back in July?

Has anyone here ever read an actual autopsy report? I have. And believe me its not something I would want to read again. Very, very technical, with words I never new existed. I needed a actual doctor to transcribe my husbands for me.
Use of words like "unremarkable" are very common when describing organs and such.
If his lungs were chronically inflammed and his air capacity limited, I would think that would make it very hard to sing and dance around a stage.

Just thinking out loud.........
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by kdkennedy74 on Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:15 am

What I find most amazing is that the tabloids and media have basically called him a junkie and questioned his biology to his children yet the AP autopsy report states that he had "NO DRUGS IN HIS SYSTEM, LEGAL OR OTHERWISE" and that he was "ACTIVELY PRODUCING SPERM".

Michael just cleared up the two most important things to him when he had this report released. Once again showing that the media is only in it for the ratings and the money!!!!
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by yitsy on Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:28 am

"Kain said he was surprised that three other sedatives, known as benzodiazepines, were present with propofol. Anesthesiologists sometimes mix one ''benzo'' with propofol to help put a patient under, but using three increases the danger for the patient.
''People don't mix the benzodiazepines together because they interact with each other and increase the risk of respiratory arrest,'' Kain said, adding it was likely Jackson first stopped breathing and then suffered cardiac arrest."

Weren't these drugs found in his system???

I just don't get what that sperm producing part has to do with anything.....stupid to even report that.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by Harleyblonde on Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:30 am

kdkennedy74 wrote:What I find most amazing is that the tabloids and media have basically called him a junkie and questioned his biology to his children yet the AP autopsy report states that he had "NO DRUGS IN HIS SYSTEM, LEGAL OR OTHERWISE" and that he was "ACTIVELY PRODUCING SPERM".

Michael just cleared up the two most important things to him when he had this report released. Once again showing that the media is only in it for the ratings and the money!!!!

These were most definately fake documents and I think it is not likely that MJ released them, he was a perfectionist-he said so himself and these autopsy reports are not real, if he had released them they would be much better than that. Also he would not want the world to know he was bald or had plastic surgery scars behind the ears. Who the hell would? He was never seen out without a wig even with his head covered and he told many he had just had 2 plastic surgery procedures!! It was nothing to do with them anyway and it is private and he shouldn't have been asked that question but he was clearly not happy discussing this and lied and good for him. No this was not the work of Michael-they were shoddy and unbelievable.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by yitsy on Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:14 am

Fake because you want them to be? Will any autopsy report not be considered fake?....I doubt it.
I'm sorry....IMHO, the worse thing MJ did for his career was to NOT admit on national television that he had more than TWO plastic surgeries. Anyone with half a brain cell could see that he had lots and lots of surgeries over the years. Why not admit it? And so what if he did? Look at Joan Rivers....she looks like a manican. If he had told the truth about that in the first place, I believe the media would have gone easier on him afterwards....
He lied....plain and simple.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by applesaucers on Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:28 am

We all should know the dude had more than 2 surgeries... he even said so in his autobiography: Moonwalker and that was released in the late 1980s. Plus the Bashir interview was DRASTICALLY edited for dramatic effect and lies. There is proof of that and Batsh*t, oops! I mean, Bashir, apologized for it AFTER MJ's 'death'.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by infinitylady on Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:30 am

Whether he lied or not. Why should he be obligated to share his entire personal life on screen?
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by yitsy on Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:39 am

Because he did agree to the interviews in the first place, so he was open for "wabbit season"....lol
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:42 am

I heard maybe the first one is real and the 2nd one is fake...the second one is a PAID leak from someone. But that wouldnt make sense because if he WAS murdered then why would the killers wanna change the report and leak the second one making him look good, when the first one makes him look "bad"...ya know? Youd think they would keep the first one.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by April-R on Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:43 am

"AP Exclusive: Autopsy Shocker: Jackson Was Healthy"
This report is just..terrifiying. I want to cry reading it.
Scars over and over..
Bald old man..
Don't even get me started on "It also said he was actively producing sperm." - I just DON'T CARE and it's nothing anybody should report in the case of writing about an autopsy.
Media are just so mad...
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by yitsy on Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:49 am

I do think the last report given in early October will be the last heard about. The family is not obligated to share any of that.
Nothing more to say really....
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by applesaucers on Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:50 am

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:I heard maybe the first one is real and the 2nd one is fake...the second one is a PAID leak from someone. But that wouldnt make sense because if he WAS murdered then why would the killers wanna change the report and leak the second one making him look good, when the first one makes him look "bad"...ya know? Youd think they would keep the first one.

Everything that has been reported about his 'death' has been contradicted. Maybe contradiction is key?

The coroner even stated that the second 'autopsy' was only copied to the LAPD and some other source... but LAPD is already sketchy as it is. I most likely believe the second one, but you never know...
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by kdkennedy74 on Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:04 pm

I agree that it was distasteful to acknowlege that he was actively producing sperm. The only reason that I think this could have been Michael's work is because the sperm comments leave room for the validation that those are his kids biologically and as far as the drugs that were NOT in his system, that proves that he was not a junkie. If he did have anything to do with these reports I don't think he would want to make them sound too good. IMO, beyond clearing his image of the drug abuse and the kids, the other things just didn't matter to him in the whole scheme of things. But again, this is just my opinion and the reason any of us are here is to voice our opinions and speculate so that we may get closer to the truth.
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

Post by infinitylady on Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:04 am

Really, why did it matter if his sperm was producing. I mean! LOL! who cares! not venting on anyone on here. I am reading what is being posted from the media! What?! In my local paper in the Richmond Free Press, it said that he was healthy! I mean, what was it? Was he a druggie or was it healthy? They need to get their info together! This is joke!
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Re: Lets take a closer look at BOTH autopsy reports.

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