Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

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Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by H'aime on Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:39 pm

I was thinking, if and only if, all the "clues" and other information that we've been given is false (whether from forums, tweets, facebooks of instant messaging and tabloids like TMZ, Entertainment Tonight and personal interviews by friends, family and the like) and all that we have is:

1. The sequence of events of his "death" (the facts of what we are sure happened on June 25th, leaving out speculation)

2. The LAPD and coroner statements

3. The "official" legal documents (will, death certificate, etc.)

4. The sequence of events on the day of the memorial

5. The sequence of events on the day of the funeral

6.The production, filming dates and legal documents surrounding "This Is It", Sony and AEG.

7.The sequence of events on the day of the O2 announcement

If we just momentarily suspend our disbelief and take only the above information as fact and disregard other information, can't we by deductive reasoning figure it out?

This approach is the most difficult because it will be more work, but it is based on reason and not on emotion. We all get excited about Michael and everything that surrounds this case, but sometimes emotions can cloud your view of reality.
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Re: Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by ILuvUMoreMJ on Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:58 pm

Good post...I completely agree. Is there anything else we can add to this list?
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Re: Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by Harleyblonde on Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:04 pm

H'aime wrote:I was thinking, if and only if, all the "clues" and other information that we've been given is false (whether from forums, tweets, facebooks of instant messaging and tabloids like TMZ, Entertainment Tonight and personal interviews by friends, family and the like) and all that we have is:

1. The sequence of events of his "death" (the facts of what we are sure happened on June 25th, leaving out speculation)

2. The LAPD and coroner statements

3. The "official" legal documents (will, death certificate, etc.)

4. The sequence of events on the day of the memorial

5. The sequence of events on the day of the funeral

6.The production, filming dates and legal documents surrounding "This Is It", Sony and AEG.

7.The sequence of events on the day of the O2 announcement

If we just momentarily suspend our disbelief and take only the above information as fact and disregard other information, can't we by deductive reasoning figure it out?

This approach is the most difficult because it will be more work, but it is based on reason and not on emotion. We all get excited about Michael and everything that surrounds this case, but sometimes emotions can cloud your view of reality.

Very well written. I think the only thing we can go by for sure are the things you have listed above. I thnik the tweets, facebooks, Cassandra etc are not reliable sources, also people claiming to know more than they dare say or know the truth I think we can safely disregard that source of information. I think along with all the inconsistancies, ambulance photo, death certificate, memorial and funeral farce, behaviour of the Jacksons, etc etc -I could go on and on we dont need unreliable internet sources trying to grab attention and get 5 minutes of fame. We should say to all the bull *hitters-"no thankyou, we do not need your crap, we have enough clues of our own and no doubt will get more thank you very much but dont bother."
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Re: Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by H'aime on Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:59 pm

Btw, I'm presenting this as problem to solve using only what we know for sure from research. Although I do believe that TMZ may know something, I think a lot of it could be distraction. If we're flooded with too much information, we can never think clearly enough or have the patience it will take to solve it.
This way will take diligence, but if we compile all of the information and compare we'll be able to find exactly what pieces are missing and where.
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Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by Sothis on Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:45 pm

If I look at the official documents, I can’t get any certainty.
- If I’m not wrong, the only information from the Coroner’s office was made on august 28. It said that "manner of death has been ruled homicide. Cause of death was established as acute propofol intoxication. Other conditions contributing to death: benzodiazepine. The drugs propofol and lorazepam were found to be the primary drugs responsible for Mr. JACKSON’s death. Other drugs detected were midazolam, diazepam, lidocaine, and ephedrine. The final coroner’s report includes a complete toxicology report that will remain on security hold at the request of the Los Angeles Police Department and the Los Angeles County district attorney’s office." Who is Mr. jackson, is it Michael Jackson or someone else ?
- The autopsie report of october 01 was obtained by The Associated Press : it’s not really an official statement.
- The will : how can we be sure that the one we saw, which was written in 2002, is the last one established by MJ ?
- I have also doubts on the death certificate : the 1st one was dated july 7th. The Cour gave on june 29 the temporary custody of the children to Katherine. Is it possible to take such a decision if the death certificate is not in the file ?
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Re: Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by neverlandprincess on Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:11 pm

"temporary custody?"
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Re: Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by neverlandprincess on Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:15 pm

As Maura did say in her video-"theories prove nothing"-just looka t the facts...and they are strange facts.
Does anybody think it strange that Debbie got real quiet real fast? I mean if she had wanted she could have made a huge deal and drug that fight out since Michael was gone? She was going to court to contest the wills' directive for the children and then-nothing.
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Re: Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by ishealive on Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:20 pm

neverlandprincess wrote:"temporary custody?"

Oh good one, forgot about that - temporary!! Wink
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Re: Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by neverlandprincess on Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:26 pm

I did not realize that Katherine was awarded "temporary custody"...is that rue? Is that in writing or how it is written?
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Re: Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by ishealive on Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:39 pm

Yeah she was but now that I think on it was that made permanent.

To be honest neverlandprincess i'm not sure what's real anymore but it was stated she had custody both temporary and now permanent I think.
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Re: Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by mjssoulmate on Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:41 pm

I believe she has temporary custody until December. In the mean time the children also have an appointed guardian ad litem.
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Re: Philosophy 101 aka Can we logically figure this out?

Post by neverlandprincess on Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:44 pm

@ishealive-Ah gotcha
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