The Autopsy - The Elephant in The Room

So the one obvious "hoax killer" is the presumed fact that there was an autopsy.

Is it realistic to logically assume that either (1) there was no autopsy, or (2) there was a body double.

For MJ to be alive, one of the above had to occur.

Which of the two is more realistic, and could it REALLY be possible that you could get the coroner's office/LAPD in on the hoax. (try to look at this totally objectively).

Another thing that worries me is that no news outlets question the death or even question too much any of the inconsistencies... you would think there would be "leaks" that the news fights to expose and be the first to let everyone know for ratings purposes. The fact that it has been relatively quiet somewhat concerns me.

Any thoughts??

I have the same concerns, especially with the autopsy because they fingerprint all bodies, and they would have had MJ's on file because of his arrest before, so if it is a hoax then the LAPD would definately have to be in on it, or the staff that day were paid off to take a dodgy print or 'lose' the prints. I really cant see how the LAPD or coroners office would lie about an autopsy, if it came out that they had helped in all of this i think their credibility would seriously suffer and it would be very unethical of them, unless MJ is under witness protection, and in that case we will never know the truth. But somebody is hiding something.

In answer to your first question I don't believe it would be possible to get the LAPD/Coroner's office in on the hoax, so for me someone had to have died. Now I'm not saying this was Michael, but maybe someone who looked a lot like him? Just out of curiousity what are people's thoughts on this Dimitrie Draghicescu guy?

Second question, I think no news network wants to pick up on this because they would be labelled as crazy and could possibly be sued by The Jackson's. I mean how many of us on here have been called crazy by family members or friends?! I know I have! At the moment we are the minority for believing Michael is still alive so it's doubtful that they will start to follow or report what we have to say until we become bigger or someone of a higher status says something.

my beloved mj, they have only done 2 autopsies which were both done in the days after the 'death'. Toxicology etc was done on the tissues and samples taken from the autopsies

Honestly, I think anyone could be pulled into to this hoax for a big enough price. There are other cases where the LAPD has been bought off, why not now. There are people who will turn the other cheek if the check is big enough, and we don't know if a higher government authority is in on all of this. If the FBI or CIA is working with Michael then they would totally override the authority of the LAPD and the coroner's office. I'm just saying, let's not put too much into the thought that all cops and medical authorities would never do something like this.

I still believe Michael is alive! So far no one has convinced me otherwise, not even that email from the "followers". They were fanatics who have probably become so grief stricken that they can't see what we have. I don't believe their eyes have been opened to all the inconsistencies.

And even with the followers, she hinted that something strange was happening in the week before his 'disappearance', so he'd lost a bit of weight, he was busy and probably extremely stressed about what he was about to do, I think we'd all lose a few pounds in his situation!

lovelidae wrote:Honestly, I think anyone could be pulled into to this hoax for a big enough price. There are other cases where the LAPD has been bought off, why not now. There are people who will turn the other cheek if the check is big enough, and we don't know if a higher government authority is in on all of this. If the FBI or CIA is working with Michael then they would totally override the authority of the LAPD and the coroner's office. I'm just saying, let's not put too much into the thought that all cops and medical authorities would never do something like this.

I still believe Michael is alive! So far no one has convinced me otherwise, not even that email from the "followers". They were fanatics who have probably become so grief stricken that they can't see what we have. I don't believe their eyes have been opened to all the inconsistencies.

very true!
lets say for example, mike was in trouble and the FBI had to protect him.. they rule the LAPD by miless! Just a thought but I don't think thats the case.. well, I hope not! I hope he was safe!

Regarding LAPD and the like, I think we need to go back to what was discussed yesterday in another thread: the abrupt and unexpected resignation of the Chief of Police. A commentor named Carol posted a response to MJHD Admin's latest article regarding the indefinite delay of the toxicology reports. She basically said that he (the Chief) takes no crap from anyone and because of his refusal to go along with 'certain things' he resigned his post. She also unequivocally stated that Michael was alive. Now, I know we have to take anyone saying that kind of stuff w/ a grain of salt. However, the LAPD Chief DID resign last week and it was a shock to everyone. If you do a search of the threads from yesterday, I posted several links wherein the details of his resignation are highlighted. There is definitely something fishy going on. Enough for us to keep digging and asking questions.

To Rachel's point, the mainstream media aren't going to do openly address the hoax theory because they will be labeled crazy just like we have been. I think the bigger question IMO is why NO ONE is asking the simple questions we are. Why are the strange inconsistencies of Michael's death not being addressed? Why is no one asking why?

lovelidae wrote:Honestly, I think anyone could be pulled into to this hoax for a big enough price. There are other cases where the LAPD has been bought off, why not now. There are people who will turn the other cheek if the check is big enough, and we don't know if a higher government authority is in on all of this. If the FBI or CIA is working with Michael then they would totally override the authority of the LAPD and the coroner's office. I'm just saying, let's not put too much into the thought that all cops and medical authorities would never do something like this.

I still believe Michael is alive! So far no one has convinced me otherwise, not even that email from the "followers". They were fanatics who have probably become so grief stricken that they can't see what we have. I don't believe their eyes have been opened to all the inconsistencies.

I'm with 'lovelidae' here... Altho I'm not from the States, I'd think it would be possible to buy them over more so if Michael's life is in danger. I guess tht will be the case in all country. If one's life is not in danger it depends too on the nature of the hoax.. and if one have a good reason to want to hoax their death. Just an opinion...

The reason why the autopsy report has been kept silent still is because they are still investigatiing. They do this so as to not "Taint", their investigation. If it was released before the inv. was done then ANYONE can come forward with bogus leads...thus, making the investigation more difficult in determining what the real truth is. This IS Michael JAckson we're talking about...not some schmo who died. They keep it quiet and have certain info that only THEY know so then they can use this certain info to help them solve the case without outsiders coming around and messin shit up. Basically they keep the very important info to themsleves so they can compare it to people involved...like Dr Murray and info he has and then they research and compare both sides and dertermine the result. Does that make sense? .

Yes it does make sence.

If they want it to make sence, mabye they should start to consider to get their stories straight

And yes we are talking about Michael Jackson, but he didnt want to be treated diffrently from anyone else. He has always wanted to be treaded, like a normal human beeing, wich he IS with an amazing gift, for talent.

I just had to let that out

Get their storeis straight...yes I agree with this.

I just wanted to let everyone know the reason they havent released the results yet. Thats all.

I also heard that someone at the Coroners office AND/Or the hospital is leaking info to the media as well....saw it on ET the other night....

jpresley wrote:Regarding LAPD and the like, I think we need to go back to what was discussed yesterday in another thread: the abrupt and unexpected resignation of the Chief of Police. A commentor named Carol posted a response to MJHD Admin's latest article regarding the indefinite delay of the toxicology reports. She basically said that he (the Chief) takes no crap from anyone and because of his refusal to go along with 'certain things' he resigned his post. She also unequivocally stated that Michael was alive. Now, I know we have to take anyone saying that kind of stuff w/ a grain of salt. However, the LAPD Chief DID resign last week and it was a shock to everyone. If you do a search of the threads from yesterday, I posted several links wherein the details of his resignation are highlighted. There is definitely something fishy going on. Enough for us to keep digging and asking questions.

To Rachel's point, the mainstream media aren't going to do openly address the hoax theory because they will be labeled crazy just like we have been. I think the bigger question IMO is why NO ONE is asking the simple questions we are. Why are the strange inconsistencies of Michael's death not being addressed? Why is no one asking why?

A good one and one that I agree. You're post explains a lot of questions tht is running in most of our mind. Thank you for showing us the path.

Im glad you let us know.

I just think this whole thing have turned into one BIG JOKE.
Im about to be fed up with their stupid stories, and their lies.

Its really pissing me off, and it dosent exactly help on my state of mind these days.

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:The reason why the autopsy report has been kept silent still is because they are still investigatiing. They do this so as to not "Taint", their investigation. If it was released before the inv. was done then ANYONE can come forward with bogus leads...thus, making the investigation more difficult in determining what the real truth is. This IS Michael JAckson we're talking about...not some schmo who died. They keep it quiet and have certain info that only THEY know so then they can use this certain info to help them solve the case without outsiders coming around and messin shit up. Basically they keep the very important info to themsleves so they can compare it to people involved...like Dr Murray and info he has and then they research and compare both sides and dertermine the result. Does that make sense? .

It makes perfect sense except why are they just now getting on the ball with it? Why did they say the autopsy results would be ready one date, then extend it, then state another date, then postpone it, etc. That simply does NOT make sense. The facts of the case haven't changed. If they are truly trying to do this by the book and keep their 'investigation' on the down low, then why not just keep their mouths SHUT from the very beginning and state that results are still pending and this is an open investigation. Period. End of story. That certainly would have shut me up. Why did the CORONERS office go to Klein for medical records? That should have been handled by the LAPD in conjunction with the coroners office. Why did it take them an entire freaking month to raid CM's Houston and Vegas offices? He had to be suspect from day one, no? Let's face it, any other physicians involved in this case are long gone. All the records have been destroyed.

This whole investigation is like a Three Stooges skit. I have NEVER seen anything handled in such an ass-backward manner.

California is in debt, LA is in debt...LA is benefiting of more tourism since MJ "died"
And the state of Cali and LA need some donation...

So everything is possible...the resign of Bratten matches perfectly to this theory IMHO

another possibilty is that protection thing, mentioned by ISWICS...

both is convincing me...

ilprincipe wrote:California is in debt, LA is in debt...LA is benefiting of more tourism since MJ "died"
And the state of Cali and LA need some donation...

So everything is possible...the resign of Bratten matches perfectly to this theory IMHO

another possibilty is that protection thing, mentioned by ISWICS...

both is convincing me...

Good point. I hadn't thought of the CA debt problem in conjunction w/ all of this.

jpresley wrote:

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:The reason why the autopsy report has been kept silent still is because they are still investigatiing. They do this so as to not "Taint", their investigation. If it was released before the inv. was done then ANYONE can come forward with bogus leads...thus, making the investigation more difficult in determining what the real truth is. This IS Michael JAckson we're talking about...not some schmo who died. They keep it quiet and have certain info that only THEY know so then they can use this certain info to help them solve the case without outsiders coming around and messin shit up. Basically they keep the very important info to themsleves so they can compare it to people involved...like Dr Murray and info he has and then they research and compare both sides and dertermine the result. Does that make sense? .

It makes perfect sense except why are they just now getting on the ball with it? Why did they say the autopsy results would be ready one date, then extend it, then state another date, then postpone it, etc. That simply does NOT make sense. The facts of the case haven't changed. If they are truly trying to do this by the book and keep their 'investigation' on the down low, then why not just keep their mouths SHUT from the very beginning and state that results are still pending and this is an open investigation. Period. End of story. That certainly would have shut me up. Why did the CORONERS office go to Klein for medical records? That should have been handled by the LAPD in conjunction with the coroners office. Why did it take them an entire freaking month to raid CM's Houston and Vegas offices? He had to be suspect from day one, no? Let's face it, any other physicians involved in this case are long gone. All the records have been destroyed.

This whole investigation is like a Three Stooges skit. I have NEVER seen anything handled in such an ass-backward manner.

I will not hope that neither Grissom nor Horatio Is watching this so called "Investegation" they would get gray hair out of it, and be so ashamed im sure.

the LAPD as a whole is beyond corrupted, so i wouldn't put it past them to lie. they are in a high authority, but i've always questioned anything they say or do. plus the fact that chief bratton is resigning really says a lot and makes me wonder what exactly he's trying to seperate from himself.

yaya wrote:the LAPD as a whole is beyond corrupted, so i wouldn't put it past them to lie. they are in a high authority, but i've always questioned anything they say or do. plus the fact that chief bratton is resigning really says a lot and makes me wonder what exactly he's trying to seperate from himself.

Exactly. IMO, that is the biggest clue to date.

yaya wrote:the LAPD as a whole is beyond corrupted, so i wouldn't put it past them to lie. they are in a high authority, but i've always questioned anything they say or do. plus the fact that chief bratton is resigning really says a lot and makes me wonder what exactly he's trying to seperate from himself.

I hear ya. That's just what I was thinking.

Do you believe the leaked authopsy reports?
Dr. Kain (he chairman of the anesthesiology department at the University of California) said that:
“There was evidence of repeated injections, Mr. Jackson’s knees also had several puncture marks, signs that he had knee surgery and received shots to reduce joint inflammation."
I've met many people with knee surgery receiving shots in the knees - no such patient would be able to walk properly, not to mention to dance for hours!
"Mr. Jackson also had reduced lung capacity due to chronic inflammation", Dr. Kain said.
“It’s an unusual finding,” Dr. Kain said. “It looked like from the pathology report that he had this condition for years, but it’s very hard to know what the reason was.”
Now that is something weird, too!
How come Michael could angelically sing for hours, perform in rehearsals and this "reduced lung capacity due to chronic inflammation" never came up in the medical tests done before signing a two-year contract ?
Odd appearances of Michael's impersonators have been reported since the beginning of this year and Michael (if it was him) has actually not be seen in public without a mask since a very long time.
How weird it might sound, reading the above mentioned autopsy results, if I was family - I would have asked for a DNA test!
To be or not to be Michael Jackson? - this is the question.

lyl wrote:Do you believe the leaked authopsy reports?
Dr. Kain (he chairman of the anesthesiology department at the University of California) said that:
“There was evidence of repeated injections, Mr. Jackson’s knees also had several puncture marks, signs that he had knee surgery and received shots to reduce joint inflammation."
I've met many people with knee surgery receiving shots in the knees - no such patient would be able to walk properly, not to mention to dance for hours!
"Mr. Jackson also had reduced lung capacity due to chronic inflammation", Dr. Kain said.
“It’s an unusual finding,” Dr. Kain said. “It looked like from the pathology report that he had this condition for years, but it’s very hard to know what the reason was.”
Now that is something weird, too!
How come Michael could angelically sing for hours, perform in rehearsals and this "reduced lung capacity due to chronic inflammation" never came up in the medical tests done before signing a two-year contract ?
Odd appearances of Michael's impersonators have been reported since the beginning of this year and Michael (if it was him) has actually not be seen in public without a mask since a very long time.
How weird it might sound, reading the above mentioned autopsy results, if I was family - I would have asked for a DNA test!
To be or not to be Michael Jackson? - this is the question.

So do you think that the conener and the lapd is in on it... strange things are happening regarding the investigation...
I´m shure that more thing will come to light when the investigation if finished. How can there be a leak in an ongoing investigation, homocide investigation that is.
The lapd is trying to stall time by accuring Murray, but there have be more things then that cuz Murray is still not arrested...

I wouldn't rule out buying off the coroners or LAPD in the least. Are they really so inept that they'd bungle such a high profile investigation this badly? And I agree that Chief Bratton resigning is fishy. I do wonder about the autopsy results that we've heard about so far. Are they completely made up by tabloids? Or is it a planned leak by someone? The active sperm part really makes me wonder.

Oh and we have seen MJ without a mask out in public fairly recently...I love this video, how cute is he? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz-G7RsZFL4

Thanks for sharing the Michael Jackson & Christian Audigier 27 02 2009 video 2!

hey lyl! You are also at the MJ forum right?

Right Eva.
Nice to meet you here! Your signature is just: WAW!

The person who is the examiner in the autopsy should know better by now the results of someone's death. Evidence and all. I mean, why continue to keep going back and forth with this.

For me there was no autopsy and is not dead in this story. Have you completed 4 months and nothing happened and I believe that nothing happens to Dr. Murray, Tohme disappeared and nobody knows it. It's just so strange and puzzling that no one in the hospital filmed and/or took pictures of Michael arriving at the hospital and going to the office of coroner. Since no one did it? There is always someone who sees, film and photographs. It really is very strange...

The only picture we have is the ambulance picture and we're all 99.99% sure it's a fake.

No picture was leaked, after 4 months it's very strange indeed.

We usually see pictures....they are morbid, but almost each time a celebritie died, someone leaked or took a picture , because $$$$$$$$$$$$ is all what they want.

nothing yet....so....

Human_nature wrote:The only picture we have is the ambulance picture and we're all 99.99% sure it's a fake.

No picture was leaked, after 4 months it's very strange indeed.

We usually see pictures....they are morbid, but almost each time a celebritie died, someone leaked or took a picture , because $$$$$$$$$$$$ is all what they want.

nothing yet....so....

Exactly! i have tried to explain that time and time again to my friends but they always try to make excuses for it. Does anyone remember Tejano singer Selena? She was killed in 1995 @ the age of 23. I hate to say this but I've seen her autopsy photo as well and she wasn't nearly as big as Michael Jackson. (NO offense to Selena and her family I loved Selena and I love her music) Im just making a point that if all these photos, videos, phone conversations, secrets, "early autopsy" results, and all this other stuff could be "leaked" , then I don't understand how some unscrupulous jerk couldn't manage to get one pic of the body of Michael.

I, for one, wouldn't wanna ever see something like that but I would have to in order to believe Michael is really gone. It seems like we have no definitive proof of his death other than what we've been told. And almost everything we've been shown, has had holes in it or proved to be fake, ie; ambulance photo, burial footage, contradicting autopsy reports, and the attitudes and behaviors of Michael's family members since June 25th.

WanaBstartnSthn wrote:

Human_nature wrote:The only picture we have is the ambulance picture and we're all 99.99% sure it's a fake.

No picture was leaked, after 4 months it's very strange indeed.

We usually see pictures....they are morbid, but almost each time a celebritie died, someone leaked or took a picture , because $$$$$$$$$$$$ is all what they want.

nothing yet....so....

Exactly! i have tried to explain that time and time again to my friends but they always try to make excuses for it. Does anyone remember Tejano singer Selena? She was killed in 1995 @ the age of 23. I hate to say this but I've seen her autopsy photo as well and she wasn't nearly as big as Michael Jackson. (NO offense to Selena and her family I loved Selena and I love her music) Im just making a point that if all these photos, videos, phone conversations, secrets, "early autopsy" results, and all this other stuff could be "leaked" , then I don't understand how some unscrupulous jerk couldn't manage to get one pic of the body of Michael.

I, for one, wouldn't wanna ever see something like that but I would have to in order to believe Michael is really gone. It seems like we have no definitive proof of his death other than what we've been told. And almost everything we've been shown, has had holes in it or proved to be fake, ie; ambulance photo, burial footage, contradicting autopsy reports, and the attitudes and behaviors of Michael's family members since June 25th.

yes...and when River Phoenix ( Joaquin Phoenix big brother) died in 1993, we sadly saw a picture of him in his coffin..and it's was very...bad. The Enquirer bought that pic and published in the centerfold ...imagine that , he was only 23 yrs old.

For all the people who don't know who was River Phoenix , it's him :

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000203/

Hello Little Friends!
And very good to know that we think the same way even in another country.
I agree with the wannabstartin.
So to give you an idea the people love Brazilian Ayrton Senna Formula 1 pilot dead in 1994.
The other day a blog here, talking about the death of Michael published his picture at the time he entered the hospital and Lady Dy among the wreckage of the car.
Gente! sadness that you gave me, Senna was a great idol for us, it was a beautiful picture on each end of the race he stop the car and get our flag!
It was that time in the morgue and no one took any photo? Strange!

lyl wrote:Thanks for sharing the Michael Jackson & Christian Audigier 27 02 2009 video 2!

You're welcome!

And I agree with you guys that I think it's very strange there has been no leaked photo, especially when it took 70 days to bury him. Good news for us!

what about him??>>>http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2004576/

hi i am ew here anyway the autopsy i think did not mention any liver damage i could be wrong but i dont remember seeing it anyway if mj ad been abusing drugs drugs for years especially the kid they say they are heavy duty liver damage would have surely shown up in the autopsy because it is where drugs get filerted though the liver hope that makes sense because you cannot be taking those meds for those amount of years without any damage at all and also bugging me the propofol if mj had been using this for years to sleep how on earth could he phone people in the early hours many people say he use to call in the early hours .my sister sometimes sleepwalks but i have never seen her phone people and have a converstion by the way tmz interview with dr arnie harvey said he knew years ago that mj dr shopped for drugs so why?has no one repoted about it before surely that would have been a juicy story thiswhole thing stinks HOAX i believe

Human_nature wrote:

WanaBstartnSthn wrote:

Human_nature wrote:The only picture we have is the ambulance picture and we're all 99.99% sure it's a fake.

No picture was leaked, after 4 months it's very strange indeed.

We usually see pictures....they are morbid, but almost each time a celebritie died, someone leaked or took a picture , because $$$$$$$$$$$$ is all what they want.

nothing yet....so....

Exactly! i have tried to explain that time and time again to my friends but they always try to make excuses for it. Does anyone remember Tejano singer Selena? She was killed in 1995 @ the age of 23. I hate to say this but I've seen her autopsy photo as well and she wasn't nearly as big as Michael Jackson. (NO offense to Selena and her family I loved Selena and I love her music) Im just making a point that if all these photos, videos, phone conversations, secrets, "early autopsy" results, and all this other stuff could be "leaked" , then I don't understand how some unscrupulous jerk couldn't manage to get one pic of the body of Michael.

I, for one, wouldn't wanna ever see something like that but I would have to in order to believe Michael is really gone. It seems like we have no definitive proof of his death other than what we've been told. And almost everything we've been shown, has had holes in it or proved to be fake, ie; ambulance photo, burial footage, contradicting autopsy reports, and the attitudes and behaviors of Michael's family members since June 25th.

yes...and when River Phoenix ( Joaquin Phoenix big brother) died in 1993, we sadly saw a picture of him in his coffin..and it's was very...bad. The Enquirer bought that pic and published in the centerfold ...imagine that , he was only 23 yrs old.

For all the people who don't know who was River Phoenix , it's him :

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000203/

i completely agree. the only way to prevent any footage of this being caught would have been to have fully planned it all before. with someone like MJ, it's virtually impossible for there not to be any more 'proof'.

silvy wrote:what about him??>>>http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2004576/

The guy has a Filmography?