Legal ramifications of hoax death

Moderator Aantal berichten: 980 Registratiedatum: 2009-10-02

I found this site where lawyers give their legal advice to anyone asking a question. Well a woman, whose daughter is most likely a member from here or MJHD, Laughing

inquired about the hoax death because she wanted to prove her daughter's theory wrong. She asked a lot of the questions we've been discussing, from collecting insurance to Joe/Joseph. Here is what the lawyers had to say...but I didn't like it.

https://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/california-criminal-law/question-sound-crazy-year-daughter-610320202/a

https://www.lawguru.com/legal-questions/california-criminal-law/answering-question-friday-michael-jackson-160681102/a

What do you guys think? confused

Gold Member Aantal berichten: 348 Registratiedatum: 2009-09-16

The Lawyer guy seems so against MJ. I think he is biased!

Platinum Member Aantal berichten: 681 Registratiedatum: 2009-08-18

This answer is quite funny though:

Mr. Dane and Mr. Marshall have given
their usual accurate and insightful analysis of the applicable law.
However, they do not representMichael Jackson, and I do. I am therefore quite confident that.... excuse me (MICHAEL! I'm busy! Can't it wait?) confident that Michael Jackson would never do anything so unethical as to...(All Right! I'll ask them!) So Michael wants to... ummm that is I was wondering if many
teenagers think they will buy more albums now that he is dead? Just
wondering. I mean like if a trove of undiscovered and previously
unknown, and yet surprisingly contemporary musical works were to
surface? Where was I? Oh. Yes. So clearly Michael would never have
perpetrated a massive fraud like the one being suggested. (Shhhhh! I am
talking to the people, and No you WOULDN'T) It would be, well,
dishonest! Oh, sorry for the interruptions. I'm at wits end because I can't find that Kenyan birth certificate for Obama that I'm supposed to shred. (NO, MICHAEL, you CAN'T babysit my kids.) I have to go. I have errr, legal matters to attend to.

Brian Dinday
Law Offices of Brian R. Dinday
165 North Redwood Drive, Ste 110
San Rafael, CA 94903

► Other answers from this attorney

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:26 am

A lawyer giving free legal advice???????

Hmm. I'm not worried by this.

Moderator Aantal berichten: 980 Registratiedatum: 2009-10-02

icy55 wrote:

The Lawyer guy seems so against MJ. I think he is biased!

There are 3 of them answering. One is a real jerk.

Edit: That one made me laugh too Grace. Laughing

Platinum Member Aantal berichten: 928 Registratiedatum: 2009-08-04

Whatever

Moderator Aantal berichten: 980 Registratiedatum: 2009-10-02

These are real lawyers guys...it's a legit site.

Platinum Member Aantal berichten: 681 Registratiedatum: 2009-08-18

ILuvUMoreMJ wrote:

There are 3 of them answering. One is a real jerk.

Edit: That one made me laugh too Grace. Laughing

Maybe we should contact Mr. Dinday in order to contact Michael....
btw:
San Rafael, CA
-->
St. Raphael is a healing angel - hebrew raphach means God is healing soul.

L.O.V.E.

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:56 am

Let's see the answers of the first lawyer that answered her:

"If he were to just walk away from everything, but not falsely report his death, it's not a crime. But in the case of being in on a big scheme to fake your death for financial gain? All sorts of levels of fraud come into play".

How did he make the conclusion that he would have faked his death for financial gain?

"if he intentionally did something, like say, fake his death, to drive up sales, then he's falsely advertised the scarcity of his music, creating a false market for his products. He would be exposed to massive lawsuits for the profits gained by a buying frenzy now that he's dead. By the way... he IS dead."

His answers start from the premise that if one would fake their death it would be only for [b]money reasons [/b] - once we start from a wrong premise we make the wrong conclusions. That's what I think of his answers.

The other two didn't take her question seriously, IMO they made fun of her questions...

Moderator Aantal berichten: 980 Registratiedatum: 2009-10-02

Good insight Lou. What do you think of the Joe/Joseph thing?

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:23 am

Hello, ILuvUMoreMJ!

Well, what I think of the Joe/Joseph thing... to be honest I'm always a bit confused when I get to this point. Because the answer should be in his birth certificate. What's his real legal name?

In my country once you are registered you only can change your name by legal means. We can't have two documents with two different names. And in official documents no abreviation is allowed. So I don't think it's possible to have different documents stating different names. The lawyer answers as if it was possible having different documents one with your full name and other with your nickname or abreviated name, but I don't know if it really is. In my country it isn't.

I have an example: the President of my country inserted the name that people call him (aka) in his full name and now his nickname is officially part of his full name. He doesn't go around with different documents stating sometimes he is "Luis" and sometimes he is "Lula".

Hope I made some sense. Smile

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:25 am

This is true what this lawyer says, I have been saying this all along in the other threads but the members who think Michael will return have not acknowledged what I was saying.
My Nephew has nearly finished his training and will soon be a solicitor/lawyer and he said it is definitely a criminal offence to hoax your death for financial gain and as we all know sales have rocketed since his "death" and one would have to be brain dead to not foresee this-remember Elvis, his estate made more in a short time after his death than he made in all the years of his fame. No matter that the death certificate has not been legally signed, his family have held a memorial and burial and Jermaine announced the "death" and LaToya has been stating her brother was murdered and they have seen the body so they can hardly say they were mistaken. about the death
I am relieved that someone has brought this to the attention as I think the many who think he will return will be deeply disappointed and living in hope for a very long time and that is sad. Unless he was in danger for his life and he is under some sort of witness protection then the possibility of him returning I think is NIL. Even if he is in danger then when will he not be in danger??

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:32 am

This lawyers are ridiculous...one of them compared the MJ "conspiracy"
with JFK assasination...moon landing and 9/11
and guess what?
I'm one of these "wacko" persons who believes
JFK was assasinated by the government...(Felix Rodriguez and others were involved)
In my opinion the moonlanding was STAGED...the opinions about that are really divided.
I had to laugh in summer at the 40th anniversary of moonlanding:
My local radio station (a very commercial one) made a poll..
and the majority said STAGED...even the radio host admitted to have doubts about it.
And 9/11 is another controversial topic...I don't think it was ONLY induced by El Kaida...
there are some others who pull the strings...

But this lawyer was joking about all these things..also about the MJ case...
so I can't take him serious...

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:04 am

ilprincipe wrote:

This lawyers are ridiculous...one of them compared the MJ "conspiracy"
with JFK assasination...moon landing and 9/11
and guess what?
I'm one of these "wacko" persons who believes
JFK was assasinated by the government...(Felix Rodriguez and others were involved)
In my opinion the moonlanding was STAGED...the opinions about that are really divided.
I had to laugh in summer at the 40th anniversary of moonlanding:
My local radio station (a very commercial one) made a poll..
and the majority said STAGED...even the radio host admitted to have doubts about it.
And 9/11 is another controversial topic...I don't think it was ONLY induced by El Kaida...
there are some others who pull the strings...

But this lawyer was joking about all these things..also about the MJ case...
so I can't take him serious...

I do agree with you about the moon landings been faked, I did post a video on here a couple of weeks ago with the facts pointing out that if something as big as a moon landing can be faked then a hoax death is very likely and indeed possible but there was only 1 response and that was not flattering in my favour!
I also share your opinion regarding the 9/11, I have always thought that and I think that is a great possibility that Marilyn Monroe was murdered-my Sister has delved very deep into this and firmly beleives she was murdered and of course Marilyn was having an affair with President Kennedy and his Brother and she did threaten to reveal all including government secrets she had learned.
However regarding MJs hoax fact is fact and there will definately be legal repercussions hoaxing his death in this manner so this leaves the great possibility that he was in danger as he will have been aware and investigated of the legalities before he carried it out.

Silver Member Aantal berichten: 220 Registratiedatum: 2009-11-02

lou wrote:

Hello, ILuvUMoreMJ!

Well, what I think of the Joe/Joseph thing... to be honest I'm always a bit confused when I get to this point. Because the answer should be in his birth certificate. What's his real legal name?

In my country once you are registered you only can change your name by legal means. We can't have two documents with two different names. And in official documents no abreviation is allowed. So I don't think it's possible to have different documents stating different names. The lawyer answers as if it was possible having different documents one with your full name and other with your nickname or abreviated name, but I don't know if it really is. In my country it isn't.

I have an example: the President of my country inserted the name that people call him (aka) in his full name and now his nickname is officially part of his full name. He doesn't go around with different documents stating sometimes he is "Luis" and sometimes he is "Lula".

Hope I made some sense. Smile

Maybe Michael legally changed his name to Michael Joseph Jackson and used that one to sign his most recent documents; Michael Joseph Jackson was present on the death certificate. However, being as though I think the government is on this whole thing and that someone was after him(I'll the post the link of why I think that)Maybe it's possible that they allowed him to go by both. Does anyone remember what name the two passports enclosed? What do you all think?

http://derekclontz.com/2009/10/07/michael-and-barack-in-secret-white-house-meeting/

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:14 am

ilprincipe wrote:

But this lawyer was joking about all these things..also about the MJ case...
so I can't take him serious...

Exactly what I said in my first post. That's how I feel about him too.

Harleyblonde wrote:

he said it is definitely a criminal offence to hoax your death for financial gain and as we all know sales have rocketed since his "death" and one would have to be brain dead to not foresee this-remember Elvis, his estate made more in a short time after his death than he made in all the years of his fame.
...
Unless he was in danger for his life and he is under some sort of witness protection then the possibility of him returning I think is NIL. Even if he is in danger then when will he not be in danger??

I see your point. But I assume that financial gain was the consequence, not the reason behind the supposed hoax. And as you said in your last paragraph, let's supppose that he was in danger and the only way they found to solve the situation was faking his death. So, they couldn't avoid the increasing sales as a clear consequence of the whole situation, but they had no choice. If it was the case, some legal providences might have been taken to avoid legal troubles. If he's still alive I believe that the world will know.

I remember that recently the news reported the case of a guy who faked his death four years ago and was found out this year. I don't know anything about this case, don't know if I can find a link, but maybe some of you remember it. I don't remember if he was arrested. I think he wasn't...? Does someone remember?

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:27 am

nellyka7 wrote:

lou wrote:

Hello, ILuvUMoreMJ!

Well, what I think of the Joe/Joseph thing... to be honest I'm always a bit confused when I get to this point. Because the answer should be in his birth certificate. What's his real legal name?

In my country once you are registered you only can change your name by legal means. We can't have two documents with two different names. And in official documents no abreviation is allowed. So I don't think it's possible to have different documents stating different names. The lawyer answers as if it was possible having different documents one with your full name and other with your nickname or abreviated name, but I don't know if it really is. In my country it isn't.

I have an example: the President of my country inserted the name that people call him (aka) in his full name and now his nickname is officially part of his full name. He doesn't go around with different documents stating sometimes he is "Luis" and sometimes he is "Lula".

Hope I made some sense. Smile

Maybe Michael legally changed his name to Michael Joseph Jackson and used that one to sign his most recent documents; Michael Joseph Jackson was present on the death certificate. However, being as though I think the government is on this whole thing and that someone was after him(I'll the post the link of why I think that)Maybe it's possible that they allowed him to go by both. Does anyone remember what name the two passports enclosed? What do you all think?

http://derekclontz.com/2009/10/07/michael-and-barack-in-secret-white-house-meeting/

Hi, nellyka7
Maybe you are right. I don't remember the passports name... but there must be something important behind this double name situation.

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:49 am

Harleyblonde wrote:

I have always thought that and I think that is a great possibility that Marilyn Monroe was murdered-my Sister has delved very deep into this and firmly beleives she was murdered and of course Marilyn was having an affair with President Kennedy and his Brother and she did threaten to reveal all including government secrets she had learned.
.

Yep...I forgot about Marilyn...she was murdered..poisoned with an enema..
and guess who was involved? Her housekeeper Eunice MURRAY....
nothing more to add.

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:05 am

ilprincipe wrote:

Yep...I forgot about Marilyn...she was murdered..poisoned with an enema..
and guess who was involved? Her housekeeper Eunice MURRAY....
nothing more to add.

I didn't know that!! I just can't believe that these are all coincidences... It is simply too much...

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:18 am

anotherpartofme wrote:

ilprincipe wrote:

Yep...I forgot about Marilyn...she was murdered..poisoned with an enema..
and guess who was involved? Her housekeeper Eunice MURRAY....
nothing more to add.

I didn't know that!! I just can't believe that these are all coincidences... It is simply too much...

Researched that 3 months ago and was like you...very affraid

Subject: Re: Legal ramifications of hoax death Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:22 am

ilprincipe wrote:

Harleyblonde wrote:

I have always thought that and I think that is a great possibility that Marilyn Monroe was murdered-my Sister has delved very deep into this and firmly beleives she was murdered and of course Marilyn was having an affair with President Kennedy and his Brother and she did threaten to reveal all including government secrets she had learned.
.

Yep...I forgot about Marilyn...she was murdered..poisoned with an enema..
and guess who was involved? Her housekeeper Eunice MURRAY....
nothing more to add.

No one can say who it was but there is more to it than we probably think. It has been proved that President Kennedy visited her on the evening of her death in a helicopter, is in the books my Sister has read.

The Death of Marilyn Monroe

Was it Murder or Suicide

© Cyrus Dehkan

Jul 12, 2007

A shroud of mystery has surrounded the death of Marilyn Monroe. This article will review what's currently known, enabling the reader to judge the matter for themselves.

On August 4th 1962 the world learned of Marilyn Monroe’s death. She was discovered by her housekeeper in her bedroom, nude and facedown, on her bed. She died from an overdose of Nembutal and chloral hydrate and her death was ruled a suicide. Whether these substances were self-administered or not, still to this day, are one of debate.
Background

Marilyn Monroe was an all-American success story. She rose from the ranks of orphan to onscreen sex idol. She was married to a sports legend, a literary giant, and had affairs with both John and Bobby Kennedy. She had everything, yet according to her friends, was scared for her life. Her fear was well founded.
It’s a matter of record that her house was bugged and that she was being watched. She was privy to many state secrets, mainly from Bobby Kennedy’s indiscreet pillow talk. She kept a diary of their conversations and had shown this to some close friends. Although the book mysteriously vanished, a close friend of Marilyn’s, Robert Slatzer was able to recall some of her entries. One entry, the intended assassination of Fidel Castro, was known by this individual, prior to it becoming public knowledge during a 1970’s Senate hearing. Marilyn, on many an occasion, had threatened to go public with the knowledge that she had of state matters, but never did.
On the night of her death, she bade her housekeeper good night and took a telephone with a long cord into her bedroom, closing the door behind her, never opening it again.
Murder or Suicide

Many interesting, non-explained phenomena surround Marilyn’s death and are too many to list. Below, however, are some of the most intriguing points to ponder. You can draw your own conclusions.

There was no suicide note ever recovered.
How could Marilyn swallow Nembutal tablets when no water glass was found on her nightstand and the plumbing system in the adjacent bathroom was turned off?
Why did it take four hours after the discovery of her death to inform police and why are there so many discrepancies as to what happened during that time by so many people?
Her autopsy results showed no trace or residue of any tablet in her stomach or small intestines. Also toxicology studies on these organs were never done.
She had a fresh bruise on her back that couldn’t be ruled out as an act of violence.
The autopsy showed a purple discoloration of the large intestine, suggesting that drugs may have been introduced here rather than being swallowed. This discoloration, as noted by one of the medical examiners present, was inconsistent and non-characteristic of oral barbiturate overdose death.
Peter Lawford, the Kennedy’s brother-in-law stated, "Marilyn took her last big enema".
Marilyn’s psychiatrist, in response to a reporter’s question concerning her death stated, " I can’t explain myself or defend myself without revealing things that I don’t want to reveal…. because I can’t tell the whole story. Listen.... talk to Bobby Kennedy."

Today the mystery surrounding her death prevails. The sealing of her file by the government, the destruction and loss of the many records during that time and the death of many of the people involved, leave us with conspiracy theories and innuendos only. Unless a lost piece of evidence or concrete proof surfaces, conjecture is all that we have.
References

Roger Wilkes. The Mammoth Book of unsolved Crimes. Carroll and Graf Publishers, 2007

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The copyright of the article The Death of Marilyn Monroe in Modern US History is owned by Cyrus Dehkan. Permission to republish The Death of Marilyn Monroe in print or online must be granted by the author in writing.

Platinum Member Aantal berichten: 528 Registratiedatum: 2009-09-15

I think I would have asked about the consequences of hoaxing a death without putting MJ name in it and see what response you would have gotten. Of course these people are not going to believe it.

Silver Member Aantal berichten: 220 Registratiedatum: 2009-11-02

infinitylady wrote:

I think I would have asked about the consequences of hoaxing a death without putting MJ name in it and see what response you would have gotten. Of course these people are not going to believe it.

I agree. Although there are many that love him and believe in the conspiracy, there are still many out there who don't like him and are content with this whole situation.

Platinum Member Aantal berichten: 928 Registratiedatum: 2009-08-04

Harleyblonde wrote:

This is true what this lawyer says, I have been saying this all along in the other threads but the members who think Michael will return have not acknowledged what I was saying.
My Nephew has nearly finished his training and will soon be a solicitor/lawyer and he said it is definitely a criminal offence to hoax your death for financial gain and as we all know sales have rocketed since his "death" and one would have to be brain dead to not foresee this-remember Elvis, his estate made more in a short time after his death than he made in all the years of his fame. No matter that the death certificate has not been legally signed, his family have held a memorial and burial and Jermaine announced the "death" and LaToya has been stating her brother was murdered and they have seen the body so they can hardly say they were mistaken. about the death
I am relieved that someone has brought this to the attention as I think the many who think he will return will be deeply disappointed and living in hope for a very long time and that is sad. Unless he was in danger for his life and he is under some sort of witness protection then the possibility of him returning I think is NIL. Even if he is in danger then when will he not be in danger??

Silver Member Aantal berichten: 220 Registratiedatum: 2009-11-02

MJFOREVER wrote:

Harleyblonde wrote:

This is true what this lawyer says, I have been saying this all along in the other threads but the members who think Michael will return have not acknowledged what I was saying.
My Nephew has nearly finished his training and will soon be a solicitor/lawyer and he said it is definitely a criminal offence to hoax your death for financial gain and as we all know sales have rocketed since his "death" and one would have to be brain dead to not foresee this-remember Elvis, his estate made more in a short time after his death than he made in all the years of his fame. No matter that the death certificate has not been legally signed, his family have held a memorial and burial and Jermaine announced the "death" and LaToya has been stating her brother was murdered and they have seen the body so they can hardly say they were mistaken. about the death
I am relieved that someone has brought this to the attention as I think the many who think he will return will be deeply disappointed and living in hope for a very long time and that is sad. Unless he was in danger for his life and he is under some sort of witness protection then the possibility of him returning I think is NIL. Even if he is in danger then when will he not be in danger??

I do not think Michael would have hoaxed his death for just money- I think he would ahve just disappeared before he did that. But, I mean, we all know that he was having a rough patch regarding his money however, I dont think he would have done it for jsut that. And the fact alone, that he was goign to do the 02 concerts would have brought him a lot of money in by himself. I thnk he will not be in danger when the person that is after him is taken care of. Then he will come out of hiding and explain everything.

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Legal ramifications of hoax death

Legal ramifications of hoax death

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