AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Human_nature on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:30 pm

ok, so nothing after 2004...pretty weird no ?
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Willa on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:38 pm

No yellow stripe on the back of number 95.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gVEsiGVhUM

No hat decal in the window either.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by annieisnotokey on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:44 pm

kdkennedy74 wrote:LOL!!!! Annie it looks like you and I are on the same page at the same time...I guess great minds really do think alike.

Very Happy

Sure they do! Wink
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by annieisnotokey on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:47 pm

Human_nature wrote:ok, so nothing after 2004...pretty weird no ?

Yep. Suspect

God, I wish I lived in LA!!! I'd be at the LAFD headquarters investigating these ambulances myself.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by MrsBenjamin on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:00 pm

u probably wont be able to tell maybe the sun is shinning on it too much, but i will say there must have been 2 ambulance trucks involved.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Human_nature on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:09 pm

MrsBenjamin wrote:u probably wont be able to tell maybe the sun is shinning on it too much, but i will say there must have been 2 ambulance trucks involved.

I don't understand what you mean ...can you explain please. thanks Smile
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Willa on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:17 pm

Someone who lives in L.A. should know whether any of the paramedic ambulances have yellow stripes on the back of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_56xVAtBjyU&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yJNHY6OmoA&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gVEsiGVhUM&feature=related

Michael's ambulance has yellow stripes and a hat on the window - MJ Ambulance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgsbkXUOzuo&feature=related

YELLOW AND RED FLOWERS AT THE MEMORIAL!
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by shirley-grace on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:25 pm

I said that befor.There is a second ambulance.
you can see it at 1:50 -1:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgsbkXUOzuo&feature=related
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Willa on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:27 pm

Both ambulances have the number 71 on them.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by shirley-grace on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:30 pm

Willa wrote:Both ambulances have the number 71 on them.

I'm not talkin about the firetruck outside, I mean the ambulance that you can see inside afte the first ambulance left.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Human_nature on Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:20 am

shirley-grace wrote:
Willa wrote:Both ambulances have the number 71 on them.

I'm not talkin about the firetruck outside, I mean the ambulance that you can see inside afte the first ambulance left.

oh gosh yes, you're right ! I never notived before...
Shocked
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Human_nature on Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:24 am

watch this one, it's clearer :

and notice..tourist bus arrived ..after the ambulance is gone ???
Suspect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuXRaJFdmKU
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by shirley-grace on Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:31 am

And after the tourist bus arrives they close the gates, still the second ambulance is inside.

On one of the forums a while back, it was mentioned that MJ had his own ambulance.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by shirley-grace on Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:37 am

The second ambulance is also the reason for the first one backing up.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Give.In.To.Me on Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:44 am

Something is funny with this video...like it was edited at the very end because it kind of seizes and then starts again.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by shirley-grace on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:08 am

I found this. I put it here, didn't want to start a new topic, afraid i get my back jumped again.

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=13400

Forumdiscusion: Did Michael Jackson have only Paramedics attending to him, or also EMT's?

I just want to point out that even they are discusing the circumstances.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by EarthAngel90 on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:27 am

I am thinking that ambulance is fake - doesn't look like the other ones ... not at all or could be a replica of old one before changing the design on it ... or from A another section of California.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by shirley-grace on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:39 am

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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Human_nature on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:59 am

Thanks Shirley, very interesting !

oh, and about the ambulance video, I think the end is the start. So, the arrival of the ambulance is at the end....
But we can only see the ambulance enter the gates...I'm sure they we're there to film more than that...
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Dutch on Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:06 am

As some are doubting regarding the placement of the word "paramedic" above a signal light, I made a collage of 4 pictures; Three screencaps from YouTube and 1 which is all over the internet on which MJ is arriving at UCLA. Especially the pictures numbered 3 and 4 matter.

Imho the configuration of windows, doors and hatches of this type of ambulance made it so that the lettering on the left side and right side of the ambulance are not equal. Just check for yourselves. To make it clear, I did no image editing. The bended white line in picture 3 is a reflection (enhanced by the lens of the camera) coming of the chrome part above the rear wheel.

Edit: Forgot to mention that in picture 4 the horizontal striping and the lettering looks different, however that is caused by the flashlights of the camera taking the picture. These adhesives on the ambulance are made of a reflective material (obvious enough I suppose).


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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:09 am

Why does the dude at the lower right Picture holding up a Jacket? Who`s feet is that behind the ambulance?

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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by EarthAngel90 on Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:22 am

Why is the guy hold a Jacket ???? I am so staring at it... it won't leave me alone ...!!!???
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by CantStopLovingU on Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:04 am

All of you are so amazing and talented - I am so impressed with the detective work. I would have never thought to find an EMT forum to find out what other EMT's thought about how this was handled.

So in summary it sounds like:

#71 doesnt seem to be currently accounted for

There is no mention of #71 in the LAFD bulletins - Not the week in question or the weeks prior or afterwards

The back of 71 has those uellow stripes, but all the other ambulance vids I saw did not.

There are EMTS questioning how the patient was attended as well as his skin tone considering the fact that it was said he was gone already
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Dutch on Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:15 am

EarthAngel90 wrote:Why is the guy hold a Jacket ???? I am so staring at it... it won't leave me alone ...!!!???

To protect the person who's on the stretcher from the curious eyes (and camera's) of fans and paps......quite obvious I think? How would you like it if people would be staring at and/or taking pictures of one of your relatives struggling for life? If it would happen to me, it certainly would bring fury over me....regardless whether that particular relative of me has brought the curiosity of bystanders and paps on him-/herself by becoming a celebrity. I certainly would be capable to kill the person who deliberately would take a picture of my son while he'd be fighting to stay alive. That type of curiosity and pictures are not appropriate and definitely not decent.

CantStopLovingU wrote:There is no mention of #71 in the LAFD bulletins - Not the week in question or the weeks prior or afterwards

Although not recent, but there is at least one LAFD bulletin in which unit #71 is being mentioned: http://lafd.org/bulletin/wb2004-39.pdf and scroll down to the letters of appreciation.

Another interesting link is the following in which the address is being given of the LAFD fire station where unit #71 originates from. Also explained are the routes which have been followed from the fire station to 100 North Carolwood and from there to UCLA.
http://www.arlingtoncardinal.com/2009/06/26/video-of-lafd-rescue-ambulance-71-with-michael-jackson-backing-out-of-100-carolwood/

Another thing (after going through a whole bunch of bulletins): To this date the bulletins report activity over the first quarter of 2009. The second quarter is not being mentioned yet. Secondly, in all bulletins I browsed they only list the 20 busiest districts/units and unit 71 was nowhere mentioned. Obviously unit 71 is located in a part of LA with a number of incidents/day lower than the listed top 20 has. As I see it, the only way unit 71 could be mentioned in these bulletins is by letters of appreciation sent in by involved citizens. I don't find it very likely that the Jackson camp will send in a letter of appreciation any time soon, so no point in going through these bulletins to find something related to MJ.

Anyways, imho the ambulance footage is genuine, the images as well. No photoshopping has been done on the world famous image of MJ in the ambulance. I work with Photoshop (among many other programs) all day. It's my profession and I do know how to add or remove (mask) items/people in images and all that has not been done in this image, trust me on that one.


Last edited by Dutch on Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:49 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by ballongiraf on Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:33 am

i find it really weird that we dont know the names of the paramedics. The media can hunt down and film Dr. Murray's former patients in Texas, but they cant provide us with names of the paramedics that worked on MJ?
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by ballongiraf on Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:36 am

Dutch wrote:
EarthAngel90 wrote:Why is the guy hold a Jacket ???? I am so staring at it... it won't leave me alone ...!!!???

To protect the person who's on the stretcher from the curious eyes (and camera's) of fans and paps......quite obvious I think? How would you like it if people would be staring at and/or taking pictures of one of your relatives struggling for life? If it would happen to me, it certainly would bring fury over me....regardless whether that particular relative of me has brought the curiosity of bystanders and paps on him-/herself by becoming a celebrity. I certainly would be capable to kill the person who deliberately would take a picture of my son while he'd be fighting to stay alive. That type of curiosity and pictures are not appropriate and definitely not decent.

While i agree with you that people deserve their privacy in a situation like this, i have to say that If MJ was "struggling" for life, the paramedics would've been busy doing CPR on him and they would've been running inside the ER, instead of chillin' and talking. Also, as a nurse i find it very odd that a person, who's supposedly near death, has no IV line, no IV bags, no intubation thingie on? It was on in the ambulance - why aren't they pumping the intubation bag while entering the ER?
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:48 am

Dutch wrote:
EarthAngel90 wrote:Why is the guy hold a Jacket ???? I am so staring at it... it won't leave me alone ...!!!???

To protect the person who's on the stretcher from the curious eyes (and camera's) of fans and paps......quite obvious I think? How would you like it if people would be staring at and/or taking pictures of one of your relatives struggling for life? If it would happen to me, it certainly would bring fury over me....regardless whether that particular relative of me has brought the curiosity of bystanders and paps on him-/herself by becoming a celebrity. I certainly would be capable to kill the person who deliberately would take a picture of my son while he'd be fighting to stay alive. That type of curiosity and pictures are not appropriate and definitely not decent.

CantStopLovingU wrote:There is no mention of #71 in the LAFD bulletins - Not the week in question or the weeks prior or afterwards

Although not recent, but there is at least one LAFD bulletin in which unit #71 is being mentioned: http://lafd.org/bulletin/wb2004-39.pdf and scroll down to the letters of appreciation.

Another interesting link is the following in which the address is being given of the LAFD fire station where unit #71 originates from. Also explained are the routes which have been followed from the fire station to 100 North Carolwood and from there to UCLA.
[url=http://www.arlingtoncardinal.com/2009/06/26/video-of-lafd-rescue-ambulance-71-with-michael-jackson-backing-out-of-100-carolwood/
http://www.arlingtoncardinal.com/2009/06/26/video-of-lafd-rescue-ambulance-71-with-michael-jackson-backing-out-of-100-carolwood/[/quote[/url]]



He dosent have to do that. There are all the paramedics, at the strecther. Im talking about the Guy behind the ambulance.. Someone is stading behind the ambulance, I think thats the one who is beeing protectet. But why if Mike is on the strecther?

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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Dutch on Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:41 am

Another collage of some images I found on the net of MJ's arrival at UCLA. In these images it is quite clear there was only one ambulance as visible are the yellow "zebra" stripes at the opened door. Also, in the top left picture the Escalades (I believe the black SUV's are Cadilacs?) that were seen tailing the ambulance when it left 100 N. Carolwood.

@ballongiraf: Who says the crowd surrounding the stretcher were chilling? There are only stills available, so there's no way of telling with what speed people were running into the ER? Intubation equipment would be obscured by the crowd surrounding the stretcher (eventually with the help of the bodyguards holding up their jackets).

I don't say MJ was or wasn't on that stretcher, I just say that what I see in these images is far from unusual. You've got to admit that many people are now so deep down in trying to find "evidence" that would support MJ faked his death, they even see evidence in things they usually would accept as very normal and standard procedure. By being ultimately suspicious and (over)concentrating on blurry pictures (don't take pictures too literal here), the true evidence is being overlooked (should there really be a case in which MJ faked his death).


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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by ballongiraf on Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:50 am

Dutch wrote:
@ballongiraf: Who says the crowd surrounding the stretcher were chilling? There are only stills available, so there's no way of telling with what speed people were running into the ER? Intubation equipment would be obscured by the crowd surrounding the stretcher (eventually with the help of the bodyguards holding up their jackets).

you can see that they're walking in - they're not running like they'd do if someone's life was in danger. Intubation equipment may be obscured, but you dont see anyone bagging the intubation equipment, do you? You dont see anyone performing cpr on MJ, do you? If it was needed in the ambulance, you'd think it'd be needed while entering the ER. Also, one would think they would've put an IV in his arm (at least that'd be normal procedure). Yet, you dont see any IV bag holder (dont know what it's called in english) in that big, do you?

And to your information, im NOT desperately "trying to find "evidence" that would support MJ faked his death" -im stating things that doesn't make sense TO ME. I am a nurse. I have worked in the ER - the things i see in that pic and the things i've heard from media reports etc does NOT make sense, and things were NOT handled the way it should be, according to normal medical procedure. If you find it nesesarry to intubate someone and perform CPR in the ambulance, you keep doing that UNTIL the ER doctor pronounces someone dead. You dont stop bagging or performing CPR because you have to leave the ambulance and enter the hospital.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by pumpkin on Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:55 am

[quote="Dutch"
Anyways, imho the ambulance footage is genuine, the images as well. No photoshopping has been done on the world famous image of MJ in the ambulance. I work with Photoshop (among many other programs) all day. It's my profession and I do know how to add or remove (mask) items/people in images and all that has not been done in this image, trust me on that one.[/quote]

I think that is a statement too far, I don't see how you can ever know that unless you took the photo, how are you going to know that from a photo posted on the net or in a magazine? Cool
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Willa on Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:20 pm

There are four photos shown in the post above. The two photos on the right show ambulance doors with the yellow and red stripes. The photo on the left shows an ambulance with a door that looks like it is white with an outline of the yellow and red stripes. I found a similar picture with the white door:

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/06/75718/

I think we can't jump to any conclusion. All we know is that these photos are inconsistent. I still have received no answer to my question of whether Los Angeles ambulances have yellow stripes in the back of them or not.
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by mjfan on Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:17 pm

shirley-grace wrote:Interesting, too.

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=13388&page=5
Post'42,49,59,79

OMG it just irks the hell out of me how someone said in that thread that Jordie Chandler correctly (untrue) described MJ's private parts. (I guess private parts are no longer private if you're MJ.)
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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by Dutch on Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:46 am

Willa wrote:[color=indigo] The photo on the left shows an ambulance with a door that looks like it is white with an outline of the yellow and red stripes.

The door looks white, but in fact isn't. The yellow lines are made of a reflective material. This reflective material bounces back the flashlight used taking this picture creating overexposure which obscured the actual zebra pattern on the door. This overexposure is also visible in the lettering on the side of the ambulance.

pumpkin wrote:[color=indigo] I think that is a statement too far, I don't see how you can ever know that unless you took the photo, how are you going to know that from a photo posted on the net or in a magazine?

Know the green screen effect used in movies? It's very obvious when a green screen has been used as backdrop in order to key the color green out at a later (editing) stage and import other background footage which will be shown in the feature film? No matter how good the technology is, it is always visible as color matching is extremely difficult. Now, if they'd have photoshopped MJ from the original oxygen tank picture (as suggested by some) into this image of the ambulance, the colors/lighting/reflections and surrounding items wouldn't match so precise. A lot of color correction would have to take place, items placed in a correct manner (involving 3D technology) over his face, putting reflections and lighting correct and as a finishing touch add some lens flares. To simulate an image like this would take days and still it would not be perfect. No way the ambulance picture is photoshopped (besides eventually adjusting some contrast, hue and saturation which are normal procedures before putting any image up for print).

Then again, I realize there will be enough people who are not going to believe me, regardless whatever I say. Too many see (imaginary) bears and monkeys behind every tree and have moved themselves into total denial, disregarding facts and the obvious when these contradict their (self proclaimed) truths. Not necessarily meaning people in this topic, so hold your horses before becoming too offended and as a result start spitting venom at me.

Last....I don't say it was or wasn't MJ in the ambulance...it may have been a double, a wax dummy, or....., but the image itself is genuine, no items have been shopped in or out, I can state that as a fact.

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Re: AMBULANCE PICTURE FRAUD??

Post by pumpkin on Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:54 am

Does anyone know what personally having your own AFS ambulance entails (I know what AFS is) Question
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