OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Banessa on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:05 pm

missdahmer wrote:
Banessa wrote:
MyBelovedMJ wrote:
Liberian.Girl. wrote:Peterpanswendy - turn up yer sound and listen slightly before and after the door closes. it sounds like him. Wink


Listen to what?. I can only hear someone breath.


You are right you can hear someone breathing! I think is the camera man who is not so much breathing but it seems as if he is trying to catch his breath! IMO If this was fake the guy filming would be in it too wouldn't he? So why the need to sound as if he is out breath! as if he ran to be able to get the footage? scratch I could be wrong so knock some sense into me please! Because I might just be loosing it! lol!

no no, you are right! he is either out of breath, or panting nervously!

Oh! Good I thought it was just me! he does sound as if he is panting nervously as you said! The question is why? I t
hink he probably saw the van and ran towards it and if this is indeed the Coroner than he knows there is a lot of security around the premises so it would be a matter of time before he could get caught! And if was to get caught then he would have probably been forced to surrender the video! Hence the reason why he is nervously panting! Okay! I think I have a way out vivid imagination lol But hey! it could be possible...can it scratch lol
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Rach on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:05 pm

WOAH, who said it was Dr Murray?! I am out of the loop here!!!!!

If it is I guess that debunks the idea that he is Michael lol.
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by yaya on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:06 pm

MJJ Love wrote:I have watched it a lot of times too, and I do not see Prince.
I think maybe that person was being sarcastic or something.

BUT, WOW, SO this guy helping him get out is DR. MURRAY. Makes sense because DR> MURRAY is supposedly 6' 5". AND MJ is 5 10 or 5 11.
HAHA!
This is just too good. I have not watched TV in weeks, because this is just wow....

dr. murray???
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by EarthAngel90 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:06 pm

M.J. is 5'11 w/o Boots - with Boots 6'4 if I am correct ... That is Michael .. and I am sure .....
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Liberian.Girl. on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:08 pm

What about Murray?

EDIT: NVM... It didn't look like murray, tho'.


Last edited by Liberian.Girl. on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by EarthAngel90 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:08 pm

That is not Dr. Murray - that is a bodyguard w/ M.J. ... !!!!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:10 pm

Rachel wrote:The way the video is shot it looks like he is in a car so why would he be out of breathe?

I know if it was me filming this you wouldn't even see him going through the door, but a shot of the ceiling because I would have fainted!!!!

to me honestly it looks like he is running in the beginning, before he gets to the gate, but i could be wrong. either way, it doesnt matter. because i know that has to be michael! so that camera guy could be on a fucking pony or a unicycle for all i care!! i just thank him for taking that video haha IF it's real.

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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by DawneVee on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:10 pm

EarthAngel90 wrote:That is not Dr. Murray - that is a bodyguard w/ M.J. ... !!!!

Hey if that's a bodyguard, maybe it's that Alvarez guy who decided to 'go away' for awhile after Michael's 'death'.

Or, hmm, how many body guards were at the house June 25th and do we have their names? Pictures?
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:11 pm

p.s that is NOT dr. murray, its a body guard

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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Rach on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:13 pm

missdahmer wrote:

to me honestly it looks like he is running in the beginning, before he gets to the gate, but i could be wrong. either way, it doesnt matter. because i know that has to be michael! so that camera guy could be on a fucking pony or a unicycle for all i care!! i just thank him for taking that video haha IF it's real.

Ok quote of the day goes to you Honey!! That had me snorting with laughter!!!!! lol!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by MJJ Love on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:15 pm

Rachel wrote:WOAH, who said it was Dr Murray?! I am out of the loop here!!!!!

If it is I guess that debunks the idea that he is Michael lol.

LOL, I thought the same thing....
It can't be MJ if the doctor helping MJ.

I actually saw someone else type this up earlier, which sounded to me like speculation, because there was no link...Due to the nature of this video, of course no one really has info on who exactly a person is..., just pure speculation...

BUt when they mentioned it, I said t myself, its definitely a HUGE POSSIBILITY.

Thats why he was missing for hours on end w/ no explanation...
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by EarthAngel90 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:16 pm

DawneVee wrote:
EarthAngel90 wrote:That is not Dr. Murray - that is a bodyguard w/ M.J. ... !!!!

Hey if that's a bodyguard, maybe it's that Alvarez guy who decided to 'go away' for awhile after Michael's 'death'.

Or, hmm, how many body guards were at the house June 25th and do we have their names? Pictures?

Dawn - I swear we were thinking the same thing - I think that is Alvarez ... he was only one who was pick to go w/M.J.!!!!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Guest on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:16 pm

Rachel wrote:
missdahmer wrote:

to me honestly it looks like he is running in the beginning, before he gets to the gate, but i could be wrong. either way, it doesnt matter. because i know that has to be michael! so that camera guy could be on a fucking pony or a unicycle for all i care!! i just thank him for taking that video haha IF it's real.

Ok quote of the day goes to you Honey!! That had me snorting with laughter!!!!! lol!

aww i can always make you laugh!! go me! cheers

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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by MJJ Love on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:19 pm

EarthAngel90 wrote:
DawneVee wrote:
EarthAngel90 wrote:That is not Dr. Murray - that is a bodyguard w/ M.J. ... !!!!

Hey if that's a bodyguard, maybe it's that Alvarez guy who decided to 'go away' for awhile after Michael's 'death'.

Or, hmm, how many body guards were at the house June 25th and do we have their names? Pictures?

Dawn - I swear we were thinking the same thing - I think that is Alvarez ... he was only one who was pick to go w/M.J.!!!!

THats another good one..
Has anyone seen any updates about him.
I remember reading that his wife said he hadn't been seen for days and she had not heard from him.

WOnder if anyone has followed up to see if he has returned home...
If he hasn't then I believe it is safe to think he is with MJ.......
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by EarthAngel90 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:24 pm

MJJ Love wrote:
EarthAngel90 wrote:
DawneVee wrote:
EarthAngel90 wrote:That is not Dr. Murray - that is a bodyguard w/ M.J. ... !!!!

Hey if that's a bodyguard, maybe it's that Alvarez guy who decided to 'go away' for awhile after Michael's 'death'.

Or, hmm, how many body guards were at the house June 25th and do we have their names? Pictures?

Dawn - I swear we were thinking the same thing - I think that is Alvarez ... he was only one who was pick to go w/M.J.!!!!


THats another good one..
Has anyone seen any updates about him.
I remember reading that his wife said he hadn't been seen for days and she had not heard from him.

WOnder if anyone has followed up to see if he has returned home...
If he hasn't then I believe it is safe to think he is with MJ.......

Does He have a Twitter Account ??? - I can check it out if he has one ...
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by nlb on Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:24 pm

MyBelovedMJ wrote:
nlb wrote:Someone over on MJHD suggested that maybe it was released today because of the media coverage yesterday over the coronor's report.


That is the most life like dead body ive ever seen in my entire life lol!

lol! lol!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:28 am

is it possible to figure out if the man in the video is one of MJ's bodyguards?
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Jubilee on Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:40 am

Wow if only he would just turn his head so we can see his face... watched this in mute and I'm not getting my hopes up about it yet but I'm so suprised this wasn't sold to the media, maybe because it's not convincing enough?? Exciting stuff though just wanna know where they were goin.... xxxx
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Rach on Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:45 am

ballongiraf wrote:is it possible to figure out if the man in the video is one of MJ's bodyguards?

OMFG Ballon, I LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE your signature picture!!!!!

That is so freaking cool, and true!!!!!!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:47 am

Rachel wrote:
ballongiraf wrote:is it possible to figure out if the man in the video is one of MJ's bodyguards?

OMFG Ballon, I LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE your signature picture!!!!!

That is so freaking cool, and true!!!!!!

lol! lol!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Human_nature on Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:56 am

Wherever, whatever, have a nice day !


Last edited by Human_nature on Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:59 am

^ i agree with everything you said.

I also believe it's a real video.
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Jubilee on Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:04 am

Human_nature wrote:ok, I listened and watched the video....hmmm many times lol What a Face

I think the person behind the camera walked because we can see the movement of the camera. I think this person 1st thought was catching the "dead body" at the coronor office...but he was surprised..shoked....he begin beathing like someone who's VERY nervous and trying to keep emotions inside.

I heard the victory wooohooo too Wink Someone inside was very happy Razz

I'm sure this person was afraid to post this video. And probably found a way to post without leaving a trace on internet.

Maybe I'm crazy... but I really believe it's a REAL video Like a Star @ heaven

Aye that's very possible but it's so weird that it wasn't on the news
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by DONNALOVESMJ on Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:06 am

missdahmer wrote:p.s that is NOT dr. murray, its a body guard

I trhink it's dr murray cause dr murray is 6 ft he is taller than mj and he has a little fro.
and also this guy is black and he has a fro too. watch the video again.

and also remember dr murray disappeared as latoya was looking for to talk to him some more about MJ at the hospital, i think he went on to help MJ escape cause dr murray could not be found for 24 hours.
yeah this guy i think is def dr murray.


Last edited by DONNALOVESMJ on Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:12 am; edited 3 times in total
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by DONNALOVESMJ on Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:10 am

Human_nature wrote:ok, I listened and watched the video....hmmm many times lol What a Face

I think the person behind the camera walked because we can see the movement of the camera. I think this person 1st thought was catching the "dead body" at the coronor office...but he was surprised..shoked....he begin beathing like someone who's VERY nervous and trying to keep emotions inside.

I heard the victory wooohooo too Wink Someone inside was very happy Razz

I'm sure this person was afraid to post this video. And probably found a way to post without leaving a trace on internet.

Maybe I'm crazy... but I really believe it's a REAL video Like a Star @ heaven

I read somewhere i think it was MJHD he tried to post the video just days after mj died, he posted it on youtube but youtube removed it so he went on liveleak,

and now it's posted on youtube,
the news was obviously about to pick it up but TED KENNEDY DIED TONIGHT RIP.
they gonna talk about him for a few days until he will be buried.

i think
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Human_nature on Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:19 am

Wherever, whatever, have a nice day !


Last edited by Human_nature on Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by zembla on Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:04 am

Human_nature wrote:Now , who's with MJ ? hmm scratch

I think I have an idea, but..I can be very wrong as well.

I think it's Jermaine.

He's taller than MJ, you can see here in this video :



and here too (the video is better to compare...but anyway Wink ) :


I'm not too sure about Jermaine, but I do see MJ is slightly bending over, just like in that vid.
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Human_nature on Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:11 am

Wherever, whatever, have a nice day !


Last edited by Human_nature on Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by phoenix on Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:34 am

hm okay i also think the person who filmed that was running behind the van- thats why he is breathing that heavy....
in many comments on youtube i read that they think it is Murray (to me it looks more like bodyguard but okay whatever)...in german media they told that after MJs "death" Murray could not be found for many hours- well that would explain why: because he brought MJ somewhere? just an idea to explain why ppl think it could be him...
at least i miss date of that video cause how can we be sure that this is really 25.06.09? that could be any other day and if we think about the fact, that it seems to be night in that video and coroners transported Mjs "body" during the day it could be everywhere in California. Just my personal opinion
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by zembla on Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:35 am

Human_nature wrote:@zembla

I'm not sure either Wink I just watched the video many times, and I just thought it can be him Wink

Something tells me this is going to be one hell of a ride leading up to MJ's birthday and "burial". Emotional rollercoaster to the extreme even. Rolling Eyes
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Human_nature on Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:42 am

Wherever, whatever, have a nice day !


Last edited by Human_nature on Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by phoenix on Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:53 am

Human_nature wrote:
phoenix wrote:hm okay i also think the person who filmed that was running behind the van- thats why he is breathing that heavy....
in many comments on youtube i read that they think it is Murray (to me it looks more like bodyguard but okay whatever)...in german media they told that after MJs "death" Murray could not be found for many hours- well that would explain why: because he brought MJ somewhere? just an idea to explain why ppl think it could be him...
at least i miss date of that video cause how can we be sure that this is really 25.06.09? that could be any other day and if we think about the fact, that it seems to be night in that video and coroners transported Mjs "body" during the day it could be everywhere in California. Just my personal opinion

I wrote in the other topic about this video, I don't think the helicopter and coroner's van the medias followed that day was the real thing. I think it was a decoy.
It's more than possible they waited many hours to really moved out. Wink


you know if they really waited many hours than to me there is no need to take coroners van to escape because no one would follow you anyways- if the helicopter and the vans transporting the "body" were fake than MJ could take any car and no one would ask questions....to me , if i would see coroners van driving along the street- i would pay more attention on it than on normal car...hm i hope you know what i mean because right now i have the feeling that i didnt explain it very well lol
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:58 am

Human_nature wrote:


look at MJ's posture here, and compare it with the dude from the coroner's car. It looks the same!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by phoenix on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:04 am

i dont know- i just had an idea and wanted to post it- you can laugh at that or found it silly ..lol i just post it anyways

look to prepare that kind of thing like hoax takes a lot time and probably many test runs to figure out how this or that would work...who knows maybe this video just shows us a part of that testrun- that would explain why someone is filming that...

does it sound too unplausible? lol!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ilprincipe on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:09 am

I'm still confused.....so many users are convinced...and I really wish
it was him!
I still miss the date -like phoenix-
But the comparisionwith the bodyguard from ballon makes sense to me Smile
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Human_nature on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:10 am

Wherever, whatever, have a nice day !


Last edited by Human_nature on Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by phoenix on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:22 am

ilprincipe wrote:I'm still confused.....so many users are convinced...and I really wish
it was him!
I still miss the date -like phoenix-
But the comparisionwith the bodyguard from ballon makes sense to me Smile

thats exactly it : some things really do make sence and about some of them i am not so sure....well i dont know, i wished it would be true, then i would probably sing that Spongebob "Best Day Ever" Song LOL
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Smelly on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:35 am

@phoenix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQXNi9d1WvE

Very Happy
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by phoenix on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:44 am

Smelly wrote:@phoenix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQXNi9d1WvE

Very Happy


hahaha thank you i love that
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Smelly on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:44 am

It's alrite lol. I love spongebob so i couldn't help myself!!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by shirley-grace on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:54 am

missdahmer wrote:i do hear the WOOOOO hooooooooo! haha...and the person who was filming sounds to be like really nervous panting once MJ gets out of the van...

I don't know if anybody posted this already, have not read the whole thread yet, just got of work.

But here it goes: from kenny ortega twitter
Woo Hoo, have a great week everyone. Whatever you do, make it count! L.O.V.E.
8:22 AM Aug 24th from web
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by phoenix on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:01 am

shirley-grace wrote:
missdahmer wrote:i do hear the WOOOOO hooooooooo! haha...and the person who was filming sounds to be like really nervous panting once MJ gets out of the van...

I don't know if anybody posted this already, have not read the whole thread yet, just got of work.

But here it goes: from kenny ortega twitter
Woo Hoo, have a great week everyone. Whatever you do, make it count! L.O.V.E.
8:22 AM Aug 24th from web


OMG i guess than makes PERFECT sence now!!! Kenny Ortega is not that crazy as we all think- he knew about the video?!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:03 am

. At first i thought he was smoking some good stuff (LOL) but after seeing this video, his random ramblings actually make some some of sense (this one, at least, LOL)
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by phoenix on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:05 am

ballongiraf wrote:. At first i thought he was smoking some good stuff (LOL) but after seeing this video, his random ramblings actually make some some of sense (this one, at least, LOL)

this is his new one :
SPEECHLESS...Your love is magical, that's how I feel-but in your presence I am lost for words like, "I LOVE YOU"about 5 hours ago from web

LOL
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:07 am

^ yeah...... scratch
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ilprincipe on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:21 am

WOOHOO?!?!?!??!?
Kenny wrote that word??!?!
some members thought they might have heard someone on the
vid saying "Woohoo" some guessed it was MJ....

I'm getting crazy.....where's my straightjacket Question

Have to keep on working...lunch break is over
but my radio plays right now "They don't care about us" Smile
thank you N1


Last edited by ilprincipe on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:21 am

^ i'll bring one from work Smile
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Smelly on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:22 am

Make that 2 ballongiraf, I think I'll be needing one soon!
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:23 am

Alrighty. Anyone fancy some tranquillizers?
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Re: OMG !!!! YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Smelly on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:24 am

Why not, lets go the whole nine yards!!!
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