LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

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LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:27 am

Jackson Time of Death a Mystery

Posted Aug 26th 2009 2:00AM by TMZ Staff

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ the L.A. County Coroner cannot pinpoint the time of Michael Jackson's death … but paramedics say when they arrived they believed he was dead for at least an hour and maybe longer.

Dr. Conrad Murray's
statement to LAPD detectives lays out a timeline in which Dr. Murray administered Propofol at
10:40 AM and then ten minutes later (10:50) he walked out of the room, went to the bathroom and returned two minutes later (10:52) to find Jackson was not breathing. He did not have anyone call 911 until 12:21 PM … approximately an hour-and-a-half later. Sources say cops are suspicious of Dr. Murray's account. They say when Dr. Murray was interviewed by them two days after Jackson died — his lawyer by his side — the doctor's account seemed “scripted.” So when did Jackson really die? Rigor mortis typically doesn't set
in for at least 3 hours, and often longer. If rigor mortis has not set in, the only way to approximate time of death is by body temperature. Once a person dies, their temperature eventually rises or falls to the temperature of the environment. For example, if Jackson were in a 70 degree room, his body temp would drop to 70. The body temperature typically drops a degree to a degree and a half per hour, but it's dependent on the ambient temperature.
Here's the problem — when paramedics arrived the room was sweltering. So Jackson's body temperature could register in the 90 degree range, even if he were dead for a long time. But we're told paramedics did not get a read on his body temp because they were busy performing CPR. Bottom line — it's possible Jackson could have been dead much longer than Dr. Murray said. There's no scientific way of knowing.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PGdCumBw

Oh, really now? It sounded like a“Scripted movie"?…
there were 4 paramedics in the room, but they were all too busy doing cpr and weren't able to check his temperature? Are you f*cking kidding me?!
And, if MJ "had been dead for hours" when the paramedics came, then someone please tell me why:
-he was taken to the hospital (you dont take deceased people to the hospital - you call the coroner)
-why the paramedics bothered to hook him up to all those medical devices
-why the paramedics bothered to do cpr in the ambulance
-why the doctors at UCLA worked on him for 1 hour after his arrival...

I also like how TMZ went from telling us that a competent and experienced coroner cannot pinpoint the time of death on someone, who just died (They can do that on 238423847 year old sceletons, but not on someone who died a few hours ago? Allrighty then! ) to quickly tell us that a dead body rises or falls to the temperature of the room. Dont pay attention to that crap. The interesting thing in this article is the fact that the coroner's cant give us an exact time of death.
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by Jubilee on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:34 am

The reason they can't give a time of death is because there wasn't one Razz xxxxxxxx
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:35 am

^ indeed it is!

I just cant understand how so many people can read that BS and go "oh, really? Ok then Smile" ......

scratch scratch
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by MJFOREVER on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:40 am

oke in the Netherlands sometime when people are dead the ambulance will take the body and pretend to safe the person who's dead so it looks like it for the public, so the can say he died on hes way or he died in the hospital.
Now if michael was dead at home already the wouldnt pick him up in a ambulance(i dont know the thing in america, but in the Netherlands the wouldnt)
And another ting if he is dead then why the hell is there a tubb of blood that come from mjs body while giving cpr in the ambulance?
Why didnt he had a blue/grey skin(the colour of dead people)if he was already dead for lik a few hours?
And why is there a vein poppin on his head?? Question
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by EarthAngel90 on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:40 am

They must be stupid ... there was never a "time of death" ....
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by phoenix on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:41 am

LOL i would be VERY surprized if they could tell the time of death

i really need to stop laughing about that one

@ballon your signature is gorgeous


Last edited by phoenix on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:44 am

phoenix wrote:LOL i would be VERY surprized if they could tell the time of death

i really need to stop laughing about that one

you and me both LOL
i was like "eh? Why are you telling us this, Harvey?" Why not wait until the autosy is released? Oh wait.... it's delayed indefinitely.... LOL.... .Yeah, after yesterday's video, good ol' Harvey is desperately trying to bring the focus back on the "MJ is dead, dude" track.

News flash Harvey; it didnt work!
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by phoenix on Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:45 am

ballongiraf wrote:
phoenix wrote:LOL i would be VERY surprized if they could tell the time of death

i really need to stop laughing about that one

you and me both LOL
i was like "eh? Why are you telling us this, Harvey?" Why not wait until the autosy is released? Oh wait.... it's delayed indefinitely.... LOL.... .Yeah, after yesterday's video, good ol' Harvey is desperately trying to bring the focus back on the "MJ is dead, dude" track.

News flash Harvey; it didnt work!


hahaha very well said...and you were faster than me- i was going to edit my post and say i love your signature
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by SmoothCriminal on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:32 am

EarthAngel90 wrote:They must be stupid ... there was never a "time of death" ....

Ditto i agree he
aint dead Very Happy
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by neverlandsfairy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:50 am

I just can sing SPEECHLESS today...


And wooooooooooooow what a signture! Shocked


Last edited by neverlandsfairy on Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by MJFOREVER on Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:13 am

Now i said to my mother about the dont know his time he 'passed away' and the ambulanceguys still giving cpr while the thought that he was dead she said.

Only a real doctor can say if some one is dead so when the ambulance guys said mj was dead the had to do cpr cause murray told them to, cause hes a real doctor.
Thats why the where still giving cpr in the ambulance.

But i didnt said i was on this forum cause she would think im stupid and crazy:P but i said that how is it possible that there was a blood tube and a vein poppin out of his head but the she changed the subject and talked about all the stupid garbage called news(gossip stuff).


im really so confused the last few days its really annoying me Crying or Very sad
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by PYT on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:29 am

pure BS in its truest form.
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:32 am

If he was dead an hour, why call 911 for an ambulance? Why not call the coroners right away. Ive never before seen a dead body picked up by an ambulance. There was no use for CPR then.

What bogus

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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:37 am

PYT wrote:pure BS in its truest form.


cheers
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:38 am

I think the inconsistancies are really starting to become very obvious. They were obvious to us the whole time, but now the media is starting to question things.

My father even asked some questions. He is 75 yrs old and SO NOT an MJ fan. But he has started noticing things...so....
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by illusionist on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:49 am

You cannot pin point the time of somebody's death when they're not dead! Razz
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by kdkennedy74 on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:55 am

I have a question and maybe its because I watch to much CSI but couldn't they have done a core temp reading when he arrived at the coroners office to determine an estimated time of death? Also, why did they work on him another hour at the hospital if he had already been dead for atleast an hour already, now we are up to 2 hours, minimum? We heard in another report that he had a pulse when paramedics arrived. Again, more BS. I would think that it wouldn't matter what the room temp was it would depend on core body temp. I would not think that would change based on environmental temperatures. Am I wrong? Please, correct me if I am.
scratch
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by illusionist on Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:02 am

kdkennedy74 wrote:I have a question and maybe its because I watch to much CSI but couldn't they have done a core temp reading when he arrived at the coroners office to determine an estimated time of death? Also, why did they work on him another hour at the hospital if he had already been dead for atleast an hour already, now we are up to 2 hours, minimum? We heard in another report that he had a pulse when paramedics arrived. Again, more BS. I would think that it wouldn't matter what the room temp was it would depend on core body temp. I would not think that would change based on environmental temperatures. Am I wrong? Please, correct me if I am.
scratch

Here's some info. on determining time of death -

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_ta_time_since_death.htm
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by kdkennedy74 on Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:07 am

illusionist wrote:
kdkennedy74 wrote:I have a question and maybe its because I watch to much CSI but couldn't they have done a core temp reading when he arrived at the coroners office to determine an estimated time of death? Also, why did they work on him another hour at the hospital if he had already been dead for atleast an hour already, now we are up to 2 hours, minimum? We heard in another report that he had a pulse when paramedics arrived. Again, more BS. I would think that it wouldn't matter what the room temp was it would depend on core body temp. I would not think that would change based on environmental temperatures. Am I wrong? Please, correct me if I am.
scratch

Here's some info. on determining time of death -

[url=http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_ta_time_since_death.htm
http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_ta_time_since_death.htm[/quote[/url]]

Thank you. So room temperature would play a role! Learn something new everyday. However, I am beginning to wonder if the LA Coroners office is aware that there are other methods available to determine COD besides just body temp?
lol!
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by annieisnotokey on Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:14 am

kdkennedy74 wrote:I have a question and maybe its because I watch to much CSI but couldn't they have done a core temp reading when he arrived at the coroners office to determine an estimated time of death? Also, why did they work on him another hour at the hospital if he had already been dead for atleast an hour already, now we are up to 2 hours, minimum? We heard in another report that he had a pulse when paramedics arrived. Again, more BS. I would think that it wouldn't matter what the room temp was it would depend on core body temp. I would not think that would change based on environmental temperatures. Am I wrong? Please, correct me if I am.
scratch

As far as I know, the coroner can tell time of death by checking the liver temp.
However if the environment where the body is found is very cold or very hot, it can distort time of death by a few hours.

The "funny" thing with this case is that the media cannot even make up their minds to whether:
- He was already dead
- He was alive and died sometime between the 911 call and the hospital arrival
- He was alive and died upon arrival
- He was alive and died in the hospital
- He was alive but went into coma in the hospital and then died
Well, you know what I mean... Wink
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by jpresley on Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:36 am

To Annie's point above, I find it increasingly odd, no BIZARRE, that no one in the media has started to question the line of BS they have obviously been fed for two damn months. At some point, you'd think they would go, wait a minute, wtf is going on here?!

It simply baffles me. scratch
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:36 am

kdkennedy74 wrote:I have a question and maybe its because I watch to much CSI but couldn't they have done a core temp reading when he arrived at the coroners office to determine an estimated time of death? Also, why did they work on him another hour at the hospital if he had already been dead for atleast an hour already, now we are up to 2 hours, minimum? We heard in another report that he had a pulse when paramedics arrived. Again, more BS. I would think that it wouldn't matter what the room temp was it would depend on core body temp. I would not think that would change based on environmental temperatures. Am I wrong? Please, correct me if I am.
scratch


You are right. It does not make sance to work on somebody who has been "dead" for an hour, thats just stupid.

he would have had savier damage to his body and brain, even if they got him back to life. None of this makes sence. Its driving me crazy

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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:41 am

annieisnotokey wrote:
kdkennedy74 wrote:I have a question and maybe its because I watch to much CSI but couldn't they have done a core temp reading when he arrived at the coroners office to determine an estimated time of death? Also, why did they work on him another hour at the hospital if he had already been dead for atleast an hour already, now we are up to 2 hours, minimum? We heard in another report that he had a pulse when paramedics arrived. Again, more BS. I would think that it wouldn't matter what the room temp was it would depend on core body temp. I would not think that would change based on environmental temperatures. Am I wrong? Please, correct me if I am.
scratch

As far as I know, the coroner can tell time of death by checking the liver temp.
However if the environment where the body is found is very cold or very hot, it can distort time of death by a few hours.

The "funny" thing with this case is that the media cannot even make up their minds to whether:
- He was already dead
- He was alive and died sometime between the 911 call and the hospital arrival
- He was alive and died upon arrival
- He was alive and died in the hospital
- He was alive but went into coma in the hospital and then died
Well, you know what I mean... Wink


ROFLMFAO!!!! lol!

Its also kinda hard to determine when, where and how someone died when its NOT A REAL CASE!!!!!
They are trying SO hard to make this appear real that they are fucking up left and right.
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by nlb on Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:51 am

Weren't we also told at one point that lividity had set in?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis (I know not the best source, but you getthe point!)

postmortem lividity-

Coroners
can use the presence or absence of livor mortis as a means of
determining an approximate time of death. The presence of livor mortis
is an indication of when it would be irrelevant to begin CPR, or when it is ineffective to continue it if it is in progress. It can also be used by forensic
investigators to determine whether or not a body has been moved (for
instance, if the body is found lying face down but the pooling is
present on the deceased's back, investigators can determine that the
body was originally positioned face up).
Livor mortis starts 20 minutes to 3 hours after death and is
congealed in the capillaries in 4 to 5 hours. Maximum lividity occurs
within 6-12 hours. The blood pools into the interstitial tissues of the
body.

I'm guessing LA coroners need to go back to school Neutral
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by endlessfire on Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:11 am

does the video with the corener actually say mj was there?
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by Give.In.To.Me on Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:58 am

So they believed he was dead for over an hour when they arrived but still did CPR on him??? HELLO!!!! I smell BS!! Suspect
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by Smelly on Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:01 am

It wreeks of bs!!!!!!!!

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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by annieisnotokey on Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:09 am

jpresley wrote:To Annie's point above, I find it increasingly odd, no BIZARRE, that no one in the media has started to question the line of BS they have obviously been fed for two damn months. At some point, you'd think they would go, wait a minute, wtf is going on here?!

It simply baffles me. scratch

It baffles me too. Are they really THAT blind? Do they just report whatever they are being fed without a reasonable filter?

At this rate, DA TROOT will not prevail... lol!
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by ishealive on Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:18 am

If I ever travel to L.A. I swear i'm bringing my own medical team with me...
FFS is this their first investigation lol

The whole case screams BS!!
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST on Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:20 am

Smelly wrote:It wreeks of bs!!!!!!!!


Ah yes...a big steamy pile...
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Re: LA county coroner cannot pinpoint the time of MJ's death.....

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