Insurance

Hi guys,

I was most annoyed at the MJHD forum being locked, but doubly annoyed since we were just in the middle if discussing the fact of the insurance money being paid on to MJ's state. I am very confused over this; a member named Tenderoni said that these documents do exist in court, and that anyone can see them. Some people were arguing that this is basically proof that MJ is actually dead.
I didn't stay up for long last night and don't know when exactly the forum closed; and so I'm not sure whether any important conclusions were reached regarding the insurance thing?
I was just wondering if any of you have views regarding this subject...I also read somewhere that one of MJ's aides didn't keep up with the insurance payments during the last months of his death, something that would invalidate the policy. But am not sure whether this is true either...

What do you guys think about this?

Here click on the link below...


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090803/ap_on_en_mu/us_jackson_estate_12

Very good point here! I do know that if I don't keep up with my monthly payments, the insurance company won't pay a dime!

Yeah, if that was true then we could definitely say, once again, 'the plot thickens'. I believe the article said that they stopped payments 1 or 2 months before MJ's death. That's be quite revealing...

But, as it stands, only one of the two theories can be true...

Same thing again: contradictory stories on and on and on...

I have found the article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5923224/Michael-Jackson-aide-stole-singers-life-insurance.html

Michael Jackson aide 'stole singer's life insurance'
Michael Jackson's children could miss out on a $20 million life insurance payout – because an aide allowed the policy to lapse.

Published: 9:14AM BST 28 Jul 2009

The King of Pop's family are planning legal action against the assistant who they reportedly believe kept the cash that had been put aside for insurance.
Dr Steven Hoefflin, the plastic surgeon who became one of Jackson's closest friends, said that the affair highlighted the "deception and incompetence" of the hangers-on who surrounded the singer in his final days.


"The family have told me that, utterly unbelievably and horrifyingly, one of his aides did not keep up with payments in the last months of his life. They believe he was pocketing the money," he told The Sun.

"This was hugely important to him – it was money for his children. The family are furious and they are now seeking a lawsuit against the person believed responsible.

"It is incredible, and just stands of further proof of the levels of deception and incompetence of the sharks that surround Michael."

Because the final payments were missed it is understood that Jackson's children will now receive around $2.5 million rather than the $22.5 million to which they would have been entitled.

Jackson was around $400 million in debt when he died, having squandered a fortune once estimated at $1 billion.

His children Prince Michael, 12, Paris, 11, and Prince Michael II, 7, commonly known as Blanket, will inherit his $300 million share in The Beatles back catalogue but the rights are mortgaged up to the hilt and the singer is facing a range of legal claims on his estate.

dontmakeitfactual wrote:Hi guys,

I was most annoyed at the MJHD forum being locked, but doubly annoyed since we were just in the middle if discussing the fact of the insurance money being paid on to MJ's state. I am very confused over this; a member named Tenderoni said that these documents do exist in court, and that anyone can see them. Some people were arguing that this is basically proof that MJ is actually dead.
I didn't stay up for long last night and don't know when exactly the forum closed; and so I'm not sure whether any important conclusions were reached regarding the insurance thing?
I was just wondering if any of you have views regarding this subject...I also read somewhere that one of MJ's aides didn't keep up with the insurance payments during the last months of his death, something that would invalidate the policy. But am not sure whether this is true either...

What do you guys think about this?

I am still trying to understand this whole life insurance thing and now the inconsistencies that go along with it.
Yesterday made me as confused as I have ever been and for the 1st time since MJ 'died', I am now 'straddling the fence' so to speak as to whether he is really dead or really alive...ugh...
Someone did mention on the MJHD forum that there may very well be more than 1 life insurance policy out there.
I don't know.
I don't want to go insane again today...,that makes my head hurt...

Oh! the lapse on the policy could only mean 2 things.. The aide swindled the cash or in this way insurance isn't claimed... DawneVee, MJ is alive and will live forever!

Ok...if MJ IS alive then why would he allow the insurance to lapse? I mean this is INSURANCE for his kids for cryin out loud....

I need some explaining, Im sorry. I just dont understand the insurance thing either.

Well, if MJ is really dead the lapse could only mean that he trusted his aide to pay the policy without checking on whether it was really done. Tho it do sounds rather careless of him if that is what actually happened.

If he's still alive the lapse thing is some story to make the people believing in the death hoax thing to think he's really dead. That is so that no questions will be asked why isn't the insurance claim being filed. On the other hand he's not doing anything illegal by faking a death and claiming the policy and (I hope this is the reason) that is because he'll make a come back. Merely my opinion.

We have:
-associated press reporting it.
-we have Tenderoni's colleague, who "was in the court room and heard the LI being filed)...... (no offense, but i dont think anyone's friend hearing about something qualifies as proof....)
- associated press also reports that the LI documents were sealed. If that's the case, then how could associated press know about this before the hearing where it was supposedly filed?
- It's easy to report that it's been paid when the document is sealed - we cant check up on it.
- i find it hard to believe that TMZ would report about every little detail going on in there (even commenting on the judge entering and leaving) but would leave out an important thing as LI being filed?
-why did the judge allow Katherine to get a monthly allowance from MJ's estate if she and the kids have already been paid MJ's life ensurance? Why the need for allowances from the estate, then?

I personally think it's a part of the hoax. In order to make this look believable, they have to go by the book and do what you normally do.

ballongiraf wrote:We have:
-associated press reporting it.
-we have Tenderoni's colleague, who "was in the court room and heard the LI being filed)...... (no offense, but i dont think anyone's friend hearing about something qualifies as proof....)
- associated press also reports that the LI documents were sealed. If that's the case, then how could associated press know about this before the hearing where it was supposedly filed?
- It's easy to report that it's been paid when the document is sealed - we cant check up on it.
- i find it hard to believe that TMZ would report about every little detail going on in there (even commenting on the judge entering and leaving) but would leave out an important thing as LI being filed?
-why did the judge allow Katherine to get a monthly allowance from MJ's estate if she and the kids have already been paid MJ's life ensurance? Why the need for allowances from the estate, then?

I personally think it's a part of the hoax. In order to make this look believable, they have to go by the book and do what you normally do.

Very very good observations balloon. Thank you! Yesterday I was just about to throw in the towel and call MJ deceased, but...I told myself to just wait it out and see what happens next before I decide to mourn.
I wonder what the next set of events will be.
Your observations gave me a bit more hope.

ballongiraf wrote:We have:
-associated press reporting it.
-we have Tenderoni's colleague, who "was in the court room and heard the LI being filed)...... (no offense, but i dont think anyone's friend hearing about something qualifies as proof....)
- associated press also reports that the LI documents were sealed. If that's the case, then how could associated press know about this before the hearing where it was supposedly filed?
- It's easy to report that it's been paid when the document is sealed - we cant check up on it.
- i find it hard to believe that TMZ would report about every little detail going on in there (even commenting on the judge entering and leaving) but would leave out an important thing as LI being filed?
-why did the judge allow Katherine to get a monthly allowance from MJ's estate if she and the kids have already been paid MJ's life ensurance? Why the need for allowances from the estate, then?

I personally think it's a part of the hoax. In order to make this look believable, they have to go by the book and do what you normally do.

[b] I agree with you Ballongirl! I think it is all part of the "plot" to try and make the hoax more believebale!

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Ok...if MJ IS alive then why would he allow the insurance to lapse? I mean this is INSURANCE for his kids for cryin out loud....

I need some explaining, Im sorry. I just dont understand the insurance thing either.

In my own opinion if MJ is alive and he apparantely left the insurance lapse it's because it's all part of the act.
He knows if he dies then everyone will question the life insurance, so conviently someone that worked for him didn't keep up the payments. Another thing that doesn't add up - how convienent!

ballongiraf wrote:We have:
-associated press reporting it.
-we have Tenderoni's colleague, who "was in the court room and heard the LI being filed)...... (no offense, but i dont think anyone's friend hearing about something qualifies as proof....)
- associated press also reports that the LI documents were sealed. If that's the case, then how could associated press know about this before the hearing where it was supposedly filed?
- It's easy to report that it's been paid when the document is sealed - we cant check up on it.
- i find it hard to believe that TMZ would report about every little detail going on in there (even commenting on the judge entering and leaving) but would leave out an important thing as LI being filed?
-why did the judge allow Katherine to get a monthly allowance from MJ's estate if she and the kids have already been paid MJ's life ensurance? Why the need for allowances from the estate, then?

I personally think it's a part of the hoax. In order to make this look believable, they have to go by the book and do what you normally do.

I totally agree with this post.
No offense to Tenderoni, because I have no reason to believe him/her or not, but if we second guess the press all the time, we have to second guess what a member of the forum says a friend told him/her.

Anyways... about the whole insurance issue I say:

1) I find strange that the insurance company would payout so fast. From what I've been reading, the insurance company can contest cause of death and request additional information before paying. I assume that MJ's policy was for several million dollars, so it's strange that the insurance company would just take the DC at face value and decide to pay out. Not because they HAVE to suspect foul play or hoax, but because it would be expected from them to do some kind of investigation before paying several millions of dollars.Insurance companies, as any financial company, are there to make money. If they can delay a multimillion dollar payment for several months I find it hard to believe that they suddenly grew a concious and decided to payout, no questions asked.

2) I find strange that the beneficiary of the payout is the estate and not his children and/or his mother directly. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the life insurance payout because instead of going directly to the beneficiaries, the proceeds are paid into the estate, joining the rest of the assets and consequently be subject to the delays / expenses / uncertainties of the probate process? If you know you are in debt (like MJ was reported to be), why risk the payout to be destined to pay those debts instead of directing the money directly to his mother & children? I know it can be done for tax purposes (the insurance proceedings pay estate taxes) but is isn't it a bit strange to think that MJ would favour the payment of taxes instead of securing a fast way of giving his children / mother money??

That's my 2 cents.

And if the question about delay on the monthly payments of the L.I is true...The pay out will be just 2.5 millions, instead of 22.5, we need to say that is not too much considering MJ wealthy, so he´d just pay it back + interests, and close the deal.

But this topic still freaks me a bit. Indeed the entire day of yestarday, was a nightmare, almost as that horrible 25th...

i was catching up on posts in the MJHD forum and someone said something really interesting about michael owning his own life insurance company. that wouldn't surprise me, seeing as how he has a lot of money and money=power. especially if he had been planning this for a long time, i'm sure he would have checked and double checked that he could never be charged for breaking the law.

DawneVee wrote:

ballongiraf wrote:We have:
-associated press reporting it.
-we have Tenderoni's colleague, who "was in the court room and heard the LI being filed)...... (no offense, but i dont think anyone's friend hearing about something qualifies as proof....)
- associated press also reports that the LI documents were sealed. If that's the case, then how could associated press know about this before the hearing where it was supposedly filed?
- It's easy to report that it's been paid when the document is sealed - we cant check up on it.
- i find it hard to believe that TMZ would report about every little detail going on in there (even commenting on the judge entering and leaving) but would leave out an important thing as LI being filed?
-why did the judge allow Katherine to get a monthly allowance from MJ's estate if she and the kids have already been paid MJ's life ensurance? Why the need for allowances from the estate, then?

I personally think it's a part of the hoax. In order to make this look believable, they have to go by the book and do what you normally do.

Very very good observations balloon. Thank you! Yesterday I was just about to throw in the towel and call MJ deceased, but...I told myself to just wait it out and see what happens next before I decide to mourn.
I wonder what the next set of events will be.
Your observations gave me a bit more hope.

*phew* That post also made my day good again! Many many thanks for giving me hope again!

First thing I did after I arrived at the office today was check MJHD, only to find it closed. This was quite a shock. Last thing I was able to read was about the life insurancy policy being payed out. This nearly shattered my hopes for MJ being the 'hoaxer' and still alive. This evening a conversation/discussion (about this all being a hoax or not) with a relative, made it even worse and it felt as if I was forced to let this thing rest. Before going to bed, I Google'd for news or info about MJHD closing down and perhaps a new replacement site. Luckily I didn't have to search very long. Many thanks to my fellow countryman/woman Souza81 for starting this MJHDN-site!!!

annieisnotokey wrote:

ballongiraf wrote:We have:
-associated press reporting it.
-we have Tenderoni's colleague, who "was in the court room and heard the LI being filed)...... (no offense, but i dont think anyone's friend hearing about something qualifies as proof....)
- associated press also reports that the LI documents were sealed. If that's the case, then how could associated press know about this before the hearing where it was supposedly filed?
- It's easy to report that it's been paid when the document is sealed - we cant check up on it.
- i find it hard to believe that TMZ would report about every little detail going on in there (even commenting on the judge entering and leaving) but would leave out an important thing as LI being filed?
-why did the judge allow Katherine to get a monthly allowance from MJ's estate if she and the kids have already been paid MJ's life ensurance? Why the need for allowances from the estate, then?

I personally think it's a part of the hoax. In order to make this look believable, they have to go by the book and do what you normally do.

I totally agree with this post.
No offense to Tenderoni, because I have no reason to believe him/her or not, but if we second guess the press all the time, we have to second guess what a member of the forum says a friend told him/her.

Anyways... about the whole insurance issue I say:

1) I find strange that the insurance company would payout so fast. From what I've been reading, the insurance company can contest cause of death and request additional information before paying. I assume that MJ's policy was for several million dollars, so it's strange that the insurance company would just take the DC at face value and decide to pay out. Not because they HAVE to suspect foul play or hoax, but because it would be expected from them to do some kind of investigation before paying several millions of dollars.Insurance companies, as any financial company, are there to make money. If they can delay a multimillion dollar payment for several months I find it hard to believe that they suddenly grew a concious and decided to payout, no questions asked.

2) I find strange that the beneficiary of the payout is the estate and not his children and/or his mother directly. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of the life insurance payout because instead of going directly to the beneficiaries, the proceeds are paid into the estate, joining the rest of the assets and consequently be subject to the delays / expenses / uncertainties of the probate process? If you know you are in debt (like MJ was reported to be), why risk the payout to be destined to pay those debts instead of directing the money directly to his mother & children? I know it can be done for tax purposes (the insurance proceedings pay estate taxes) but is isn't it a bit strange to think that MJ would favour the payment of taxes instead of securing a fast way of giving his children / mother money??

That's my 2 cents.

i agree with that.
also, MJ passed a 3 hour physical test with flying colors a few months before he "died". If i was an Insurance company, and one of my clients suddenly died of "cardiac arrest" (especially after passing a test like that with no problems), i'd be even more suspicious.

Mo wrote:I have found the article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5923224/Michael-Jackson-aide-stole-singers-life-insurance.html

Michael Jackson aide 'stole singer's life insurance'
Michael Jackson's children could miss out on a $20 million life insurance payout – because an aide allowed the policy to lapse.

Published: 9:14AM BST 28 Jul 2009

The King of Pop's family are planning legal action against the assistant who they reportedly believe kept the cash that had been put aside for insurance.
Dr Steven Hoefflin, the plastic surgeon who became one of Jackson's closest friends, said that the affair highlighted the "deception and incompetence" of the hangers-on who surrounded the singer in his final days.


"The family have told me that, utterly unbelievably and horrifyingly, one of his aides did not keep up with payments in the last months of his life. They believe he was pocketing the money," he told The Sun.

"This was hugely important to him – it was money for his children. The family are furious and they are now seeking a lawsuit against the person believed responsible.

"It is incredible, and just stands of further proof of the levels of deception and incompetence of the sharks that surround Michael."

Because the final payments were missed it is understood that Jackson's children will now receive around $2.5 million rather than the $22.5 million to which they would have been entitled.

Jackson was around $400 million in debt when he died, having squandered a fortune once estimated at $1 billion.

His children Prince Michael, 12, Paris, 11, and Prince Michael II, 7, commonly known as Blanket, will inherit his $300 million share in The Beatles back catalogue but the rights are mortgaged up to the hilt and the singer is facing a range of legal claims on his estate.

YEAH ! Dont worry about the insurance. The insurance that has gotten paid is a non performance insurance, that they can get paid, from it AEG is the one that get this money,

MJ knew he was pulling the hoax, and he didn't pay the insurance on purpose for 2 months, and he blamed the aid, didn't pay the insurance, he knows when you don't pay your insurance you don't get paid ,

CAUSE he didn't want people to wonder why he himself, didn't pay for it, people would get suspiscious, MJ don't want to go to jail if he makes a comeback, and he knew the insurance, is the ticket to jail for fraud, so no insurance cause MJ faked it,

and he can comeback if , and only if he decided without risking going to jail over insurance payout.
he didn't pay it on purpose,

CAUSE HE KNEW HE WAS PULLING THIS HOAX.

AND THIS IS AGAIN TO PROVE THAT THE FAMILY DIDN'T GET PAID FROM THE LIFE INSURANCE, and no ! i don't believe that the family will sue anyone, and there will be no payout of 2,000,000 dollars either,

this number was put in to throw the hoax believers off, so don't worry,
when you skip your insurance premium, if God forbid anything happens, then your family don't get paid.



THIS IS MY THEORY.

summer+sc3nt wrote:Well, if MJ is really dead the lapse could only mean that he trusted his aide to pay the policy without checking on whether it was really done. Tho it do sounds rather careless of him if that is what actually happened.

If he's still alive the lapse thing is some story to make the people believing in the death hoax thing to think he's really dead. That is so that no questions will be asked why isn't the insurance claim being filed. On the other hand he's not doing anything illegal by faking a death and claiming the policy and (I hope this is the reason) that is because he'll make a come back. Merely my opinion.

Payments also could have been stopped as part of a death hoax plan, intentionally in order to avoid anyone committing fraud on his behalf and collecting the payout. Once he came back, he could pick the policy back up again... well assuming life insurance will insure a guy who faked his death.

But didnt his manager say that Mj didnt have insurance for himself? Which is very,very wierd