points to ponder

ok,thanks to neverlandprincess i rewatched the movie heres what caught my eye,i am NOT saying these are clues,however,i just thnk we should look at it and see if and what or IF anythng at all there is to it these things just seemed odd and questions arouse in my mind regarding these parts of the movie

1)the little snippet of song he did right after wanna be startin something,i dont think i can recall it as a full song,but,i could be wrong even at that,WHY just sing a part?the words i caught were the following: your love is magical,thats how i feel,words and words be explained,tell you i LOVE YOU,so,like i said,i only caught a few,but,IS this a message to us?his fans?makes me hmmmm?

2)Normally,michael DOES NOT SMILE while dancing,he dances out his anger,there is a part on moonwalker where fred astaire called him and told him this and fred said thats how he dances also,SO WHY is michael wearing a HUGE smile while doing they dont care about us?its ALMOST there the whole time of the performance?

3)i also wonder during the history part,i believe part of the taped words of martin king were:go down as greatest?could this be of ANY significance?

4)A vocal leader? standing ON STAGE with michael,conferring: he has been in the business for 45 years,HE knows his songs,his voice etc. also,no,he hadnt been giving concerts to keephis voice in shape HOWEVER,he was STILL recording as was shown on YT while he was in ireland,an interview was done IN STUDIO with will.i.am. and interviewer makes a statement regarding getting BACK INTO music and michael says sternly and firmly; i NEVER LEFT,i never quit etc.

5)musical director makes comments regarding needing performers to be hands on and he says of course MICHAEL is hands on on EVERYTHING he does,he knows all his records,tempos,keys of songs etc. could this also be telling us something

6WHY go in and tell on film_TODAY we are filming NEW segments for the thriller 3D,wouldnt MJ have KNOWN what he was viewing on this fim HAD IT BEEN ONLY FOR REHEARSALS?same thing with aerlist consultant etc. and with them telling us oh,dancers have pilates,nutritionist etc. WHY would michael or ANYONE using film for viewing HAVE TO KNOW THIS?ths was done in my opinion to counteract the reports that michael was too skinny not eating etc.

7) someone says about pushing the boundaries THATS WHAT MICHAELS ABOUT,why put that on film again mj wouldnt NEED to hear that

8)earthsong,BEAUTIFUL SONG,but,did ANYONE catch that michael starts speaking almost making a speech about how he feels about writting these types of songs and how he feels about the amazon etc. WHO IS HE TALKING TO?the only person they show before is KO if kenny has worked and known him for so long prior to this,WOULDNT KENNY ALREADY KNOW HOW MICHAEL FEELS REGARDING THE PLANET and etc.?i just dont get this one
also on earthsong,the part where he is on cherrypicker can ANYONE HEAR the words he is saying,cause i tried AGAIN and i swear they MITE be new lyrics in this part,i couldnt hear him sayANYTHING familiar to the verses in the song,regarding elephants and etc. i could be wrong but,it doesnt SOUND to me like the original lyrics in this part of song.
9)during the circle where kenny hands him the mic,YES it is as if he is staring directly INTO camera and talking to THE AUDIENCE, he also states,NOTHING to be nervous about,bringing love back into the world,his IMPORTANT message,mentions cooperation and THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION,BIG THANK YOU the whole time he is LOOKING AT CAMERA,i think WHOEVER noted it before they were correct and this WHOLE speech is for US.
10) NOW,I should have maybe stated this before at beginning but,it says they were 8 days away from opening right?THEN WHY didnt we see ANY rehearsals for aerlists,dirty dianna,you are not alone, ETC. we saw ALOT about dancers,choreographers,music directors,lead guitarist,etc. BUT nothing of these rehearsals for these songs,kenny said they were going to be rehearsing for the d.d. song etc. when he got the news, NOW dont u think they would WAIT until 8 DAYS BEFORE OPENING IF THEY had been having rehearsals since MARCH that that is ODD?I dont know,i am just questioning these things maybe you good people have or can find some answers

SORRY FOR THE LONG POST looking forward to your answers and thoughts tho, thanks

OK, here are my comments on your post:

1) The snippet you're referring to is Michael's song Speechless from the Invincible album, the one Michael did on the movie was the last part.

2) My personal thoughts on that smile? Michael felt happy, remember this is just a rehearsal not the concert.

3) No comment

4) Michael always had vocal coach. He does this before recording a song or concert. His fave vocal coach is Seth Riggs.

5) Maybe this was just a simple reminder for the crew. They are working with Michael Jackson, the genuis, so it's just right that they be hands on as well.

6) The film was intended for Michael's library and I guess, Michael would have loved it treasured for his children and grandchildren to see.

7) No comment

8 ) The spoken parts are clearly the best part. This is a film remember and not all people knows the humanitarian side of Michael. And when they saw it and heard Michael, they were not just impressed but saluted Michael for being so true about his concern on our planet. I see nothing wrong with that sweetie.

9) No comment

10) One of the songs not included was Who Is It. FYI, it was supposed to be rehearsed June 25.

Great post, I also found the comments in TII very strange. If TII was for MJ's private library then why have some of the cast interviewed and why tell us all about the pilates and nutrition. Aswell when MJ speaks about the world/rainforest/L.O.V.E who is he talking to. This is what I posted in another topic, to me it felt like scripted reality. At the very start the dancers speaking felt kind of scripted to me. MJ saying we only have 4 years to save the planet - we have been told TII is just rehearsal footage but why is MJ saying all of this. It very obvious to me that MJ is very much alive and he is teaching us a lesson, he is trying to be heard. We need to heal the world. MJ's disappearance imo is to teach us a valuable lesson and on a very large scale.
I think this is just the begining.

My friends, it is only the beginning. The months leading up to TII were to get us prepared for the the Greatest Show On Earth. I'm in this for the long haul. I'm ready to ride this ride to the end. I believe the best is yet to come. JMO, so as always I could be wrong..I just go with my gut

ishealive wrote:Great post, I also found the comments in TII very strange. If TII was for MJ's private library then why have some of the cast interviewed and why tell us all about the pilates and nutrition. Aswell when MJ speaks about the world/rainforest/L.O.V.E who is he talking to. This is what I posted in another topic, to me it felt like scripted reality. At the very start the dancers speaking felt kind of scripted to me. MJ saying we only have 4 years to save the planet - we have been told TII is just rehearsal footage but why is MJ saying all of this.

I so agree with you. Everyone can see this is not just rehearsel footage. It feels like everything we've seen up to now (the memorial,funeral)seemed scripted ..the way reality tv is scripted. All the details..all the people we've never heard of but have screen time.

That being said..I LOVED THE MOVIE! Just seeing Michael dance,walk,sing,talk..I couldn't care less about the dancers and all that other stuff to be honest..Just him was all I wanted to see. If you watch it you would never think he was 50!! Those movements. It made me even more convinced he is alive. I did cry but out of joy of seeing that man being AMAZING!

YESSS! I just wanted to type this here! The way MJ was speaking about how we should save the world while they will showing footages is just not right! It's like something that was planned to be placed into something that is to be shown on-screen. Not just rehearsals! this is another clue!

Confused wrote:

ishealive wrote:Great post, I also found the comments in TII very strange. If TII was for MJ's private library then why have some of the cast interviewed and why tell us all about the pilates and nutrition. Aswell when MJ speaks about the world/rainforest/L.O.V.E who is he talking to. This is what I posted in another topic, to me it felt like scripted reality. At the very start the dancers speaking felt kind of scripted to me. MJ saying we only have 4 years to save the planet - we have been told TII is just rehearsal footage but why is MJ saying all of this.

I so agree with you. Everyone can see this is not just rehearsel footage. It feels like everything we've seen up to now (the memorial,funeral)seemed scripted ..the way reality tv is scripted. All the details..all the people we've never heard of but have screen time.

That being said..I LOVED THE MOVIE! Just seeing Michael dance,walk,sing,talk..I couldn't care less about the dancers and all that other stuff to be honest..Just him was all I wanted to see. If you watch it you would never think he was 50!! Those movements. It made me even more convinced he is alive. I did cry but out of joy of seeing that man being AMAZING!

I agree it was amazing to see him in action, he danced like he did 20 years ago. He seemed healthier than me and i'm 29.
TII was a brilliant movie and one of a kind. MJ always said no one makes good music anymore and i've always said this about movies - no one makes good movies anymore, it's all blockbusters with no storyline just action BS. TII was bringing us back to excellent movies again and it stands out from the rest just like MJ always did.
Also having the movie premier across the world at the same time - this is such a Michael Jackson thing to do, he'd want to be fair and this has MJ stamped all over it.

1) The snippet you're referring to is Michael's song Speechless from the Invincible album, the one Michael did on the movie was the last part.


ok,i found that out today,bought the cd last nite and was going over it,HOWEVER,what he says in film wasnt written that way in my booklet he didnt sing it the same,in film he sings
your love ismagical thats how i feel,and then say at end of snippet,tell you I LOVE YOU in the booklet is WRITTEN:

your love is magical,thats how i feel,But i have not the words here to explain,gone is the greace for expressions of passion,but there are worlds and worlds of ways to explain,to you how i feel,but i am speechless speechless

and also YOUR LOVE is magical,thats how i feel,but in your presence i am lost for words,words like i love you at the end of song, i could be wrong,but i could swear michael made a point of telling the musical director or someone in movie he wanted it to sound just like the album,just like the record etc. also,i mite have missed words in the snippet,but i dont think i did,i purposly went and looked and reread to see if this is EXACTLY how it was written as it just didnt seem right to me,and the booklet could be wrong but,its not written the way he sang the snippet,it was as if it was a message to us/fans sorry just my opinion

marsheliamorgan wrote:1) The snippet you're referring to is Michael's song Speechless from the Invincible album, the one Michael did on the movie was the last part.


ok,i found that out today,bought the cd last nite and was going over it,HOWEVER,what he says in film wasnt written that way in my booklet he didnt sing it the same,in film he sings
your love ismagical thats how i feel,and then say at end of snippet,tell you I LOVE YOU in the booklet is WRITTEN:

your love is magical,thats how i feel,But i have not the words here to explain,gone is the greace for expressions of passion,but there are worlds and worlds of ways to explain,to you how i feel,but i am speechless speechless

and also YOUR LOVE is magical,thats how i feel,but in your presence i am lost for words,words like i love you at the end of song, i could be wrong,but i could swear michael made a point of telling the musical director or someone in movie he wanted it to sound just like the album,just like the record etc. also,i mite have missed words in the snippet,but i dont think i did,i purposly went and looked and reread to see if this is EXACTLY how it was written as it just didnt seem right to me,and the booklet could be wrong but,its not written the way he sang the snippet,it was as if it was a message to us/fans sorry just my opinion

I was pretty sure that the little snippet we saw of him singing "Speechless" was that very last line...and sometimes he changes around words in concert-not often-but that is the only one they showed of SPeechless and I wish they had shown him singing the whole thing...freakin love that song.

marsheliamorgan wrote:ok,thanks to neverlandprincess i rewatched the movie heres what caught my eye,i am NOT saying these are clues,however,i just thnk we should look at it and see if and what or IF anythng at all there is to it these things just seemed odd and questions arouse in my mind regarding these parts of the movie

1)the little snippet of song he did right after wanna be startin something,i dont think i can recall it as a full song,but,i could be wrong even at that,WHY just sing a part?the words i caught were the following: your love is magical,thats how i feel,words and words be explained,tell you i LOVE YOU,so,like i said,i only caught a few,but,IS this a message to us?his fans?makes me hmmmm?

2)Normally,michael DOES NOT SMILE while dancing,he dances out his anger,there is a part on moonwalker where fred astaire called him and told him this and fred said thats how he dances also,SO WHY is michael wearing a HUGE smile while doing they dont care about us?its ALMOST there the whole time of the performance?

3)i also wonder during the history part,i believe part of the taped words of martin king were:go down as greatest?could this be of ANY significance?

4)A vocal leader? standing ON STAGE with michael,conferring: he has been in the business for 45 years,HE knows his songs,his voice etc. also,no,he hadnt been giving concerts to keephis voice in shape HOWEVER,he was STILL recording as was shown on YT while he was in ireland,an interview was done IN STUDIO with will.i.am. and interviewer makes a statement regarding getting BACK INTO music and michael says sternly and firmly; i NEVER LEFT,i never quit etc.

5)musical director makes comments regarding needing performers to be hands on and he says of course MICHAEL is hands on on EVERYTHING he does,he knows all his records,tempos,keys of songs etc. could this also be telling us something

6WHY go in and tell on film_TODAY we are filming NEW segments for the thriller 3D,wouldnt MJ have KNOWN what he was viewing on this fim HAD IT BEEN ONLY FOR REHEARSALS?same thing with aerlist consultant etc. and with them telling us oh,dancers have pilates,nutritionist etc. WHY would michael or ANYONE using film for viewing HAVE TO KNOW THIS?ths was done in my opinion to counteract the reports that michael was too skinny not eating etc.

7) someone says about pushing the boundaries THATS WHAT MICHAELS ABOUT,why put that on film again mj wouldnt NEED to hear that

8)earthsong,BEAUTIFUL SONG,but,did ANYONE catch that michael starts speaking almost making a speech about how he feels about writting these types of songs and how he feels about the amazon etc. WHO IS HE TALKING TO?the only person they show before is KO if kenny has worked and known him for so long prior to this,WOULDNT KENNY ALREADY KNOW HOW MICHAEL FEELS REGARDING THE PLANET and etc.?i just dont get this one
also on earthsong,the part where he is on cherrypicker can ANYONE HEAR the words he is saying,cause i tried AGAIN and i swear they MITE be new lyrics in this part,i couldnt hear him sayANYTHING familiar to the verses in the song,regarding elephants and etc. i could be wrong but,it doesnt SOUND to me like the original lyrics in this part of song.
9)during the circle where kenny hands him the mic,YES it is as if he is staring directly INTO camera and talking to THE AUDIENCE, he also states,NOTHING to be nervous about,bringing love back into the world,his IMPORTANT message,mentions cooperation and THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION,BIG THANK YOU the whole time he is LOOKING AT CAMERA,i think WHOEVER noted it before they were correct and this WHOLE speech is for US.
10) NOW,I should have maybe stated this before at beginning but,it says they were 8 days away from opening right?THEN WHY didnt we see ANY rehearsals for aerlists,dirty dianna,you are not alone, ETC. we saw ALOT about dancers,choreographers,music directors,lead guitarist,etc. BUT nothing of these rehearsals for these songs,kenny said they were going to be rehearsing for the d.d. song etc. when he got the news, NOW dont u think they would WAIT until 8 DAYS BEFORE OPENING IF THEY had been having rehearsals since MARCH that that is ODD?I dont know,i am just questioning these things maybe you good people have or can find some answers

SORRY FOR THE LONG POST looking forward to your answers and thoughts tho, thanks

HAHA! Sorry I just read your whole post-and lots of observations...I wondered why they were telling him what they were doing that day too...more like (once again) it was being filmed as a documentary (maybe for extra dvd or something if they had released the concert as a dvd? But then why "lie" and say "oh we did this by accident"??? I also wondered if the concerts opened in a week why we didnt see him do more than one rehearsal of "Bille Jea". Now I am not in Showbusiness so I don't know when dress rehearsals are done...I am thinking day before/day of...but still. BTW-what did I say that made u see the movie again?

you had posted the video show of them on here,so i rewatched this a.m. because i just felt like i wasnt sure what it was,however,something didnt hit me right,just seemed off,and iKNEW i was going to see the movie again this afternoon with my daughter as she can be quiet in movie and my hubby couldnt LOL and she couldnt see where i was coming up and why i have been SO obsessed with michael death hoax,and wanted her opinion HONEST as a non-fan really and pretty much black and white person,i needed to see IF she could see the GRAY this time.AND SHE DID,but neverlandprincess,on the snippet of song,the point i am trying to make is he says in the movie,what the audience hears he wants them to hear in the record,to me that means and he stated as on the album.exactly the same,so i dont know i could be wrong,but,i dont think he would change the words in this one UNLESS he was trying to point something out to us/fans etc. and i looked it in booklet and its not in there written like he says it in movie,its like once again he wanted US to KNOW this part i love you/your love is magical,and yea,i was bummed we didnt get to see speechless,dirtydianna,or one of my also fav's you are not alone.and i cant believe in 120 hours of 'rehearsal time"he DIDNT do them as they were opening in what 8 days,2 weeks?and yet NOT to play/rehearse these hits?doesnt make sense to me,i could be wrong,

NO-def not wrong...lol the songs the fans wanna hear? You know they/we want to hear "Dangerous"...and like all of them. Someone did post on here that KO said some of them were not on the theatre version cause apparently he played some explicit scenes? or so for "Diana"....makes u wonder.

UHHHH,that is not all i wonder about regarding kenny,i dont know what to make or think of him anymore,at first i thought,yep,he's leaving us open ended type clues and such,now i am wondering if possiblehe is just doing that to lead us on and so we WONT suspect him of doing michael wrong,and of course makeing more money for sony and aeg and who knows who else?i cant get a solid take on him or his objectives

marsheliamorgan wrote:you had posted the video show of them on here,so i rewatched this a.m. because i just felt like i wasnt sure what it was,however,something didnt hit me right,just seemed off,and iKNEW i was going to see the movie again this afternoon with my daughter as she can be quiet in movie and my hubby couldnt LOL and she couldnt see where i was coming up and why i have been SO obsessed with michael death hoax,and wanted her opinion HONEST as a non-fan really and pretty much black and white person,i needed to see IF she could see the GRAY this time.AND SHE DID,but neverlandprincess,on the snippet of song,the point i am trying to make is he says in the movie,what the audience hears he wants them to hear in the record,to me that means and he stated as on the album.exactly the same,so i dont know i could be wrong,but,i dont think he would change the words in this one UNLESS he was trying to point something out to us/fans etc. and i looked it in booklet and its not in there written like he says it in movie,its like once again he wanted US to KNOW this part i love you/your love is magical,and yea,i was bummed we didnt get to see speechless,dirtydianna,or one of my also fav's you are not alone.and i cant believe in 120 hours of 'rehearsal time"he DIDNT do them as they were opening in what 8 days,2 weeks?and yet NOT to play/rehearse these hits?doesnt make sense to me,i could be wrong,

When Michael said he wanted it to sound like the record he was referring to the song The way you make me feel, not Speechless. And they were not going to open in 8 days. They were 8 days away from leaving for London. the first concert wasn't going to take place until July 13th. I am disappointed too that we didn't get to see more footage. But I still lovede it. Saw it twice.

All I know is this: Before seeing the film, I'd been afraid that I was going to be feeling saddened of seeing him for the "last time". Yes, I know I'm all "faith-filled", "encouraging" on this forum, and its how I feel for sure, however, in my everyday life, I see the T-shirt stands and the "Tribute" magazines etc. and it upsets me to see that stuff so I was trying to ward off getting "that feeling" from the movie - and I kid you NOT, within the first 5 minutes I felt a deep KNOWING without any doubt that this was planned, orchestrated, directed and created by a very currently living and well, BEYOND BRILLIANT, Michael Joe Jackson. No doubt. Everything throughout the film confirmed it. I agree with so much that has been said, most importantly the fact that you can see clearly that this is not some "footage" spliced together posthumasly - NO WAY Baby! Nup nup nup!

ok here are my comments on these comments on the original post because it will help me explain what I mean (no other reason, please don't take it personal - thanks, Love!)

mjmusicandme wrote:OK, here are my comments on your post:

1)
The snippet you're referring to is Michael's song Speechless from the
Invincible album, the one Michael did on the movie was the last part.

No, Michael took a part from the first part of the song and zoomed all the way to the last line of the song. My first impression due to the RANDOMNESS of how the short snippet appeared was "MESSAGE". If it was an editor's choice, it would be too random for it not to be in some kind of sequence or have some kind of fluid congruence just as the rest of the songs did.

2) My personal thoughts on that smile? Michael felt happy, remember this is just a rehearsal not the concert.

I'm going to quote Michael here and remind you, "that's why we have rehearsals". Michael would NOT rehearse something DIFFERENTLY than he would perform it. He is a perfectionist. A perfectionist like Michael, especially a PERFORMER, believes that "practice makes perfect when practiced perfectly" He was smiling because he wanted his smiling to be in the film.

3) No comment

4) Michael always had vocal coach. He does this before recording a song or concert. His fave vocal coach is Seth Riggs.

5)
Maybe this was just a simple reminder for the crew. They are working
with Michael Jackson, the genuis, so it's just right that they be hands
on as well.

No comment

6) The film was intended for Michael's library and I
guess, Michael would have loved it treasured for his children and
grandchildren to see.

This, with all due respect to that idea, is too ludicrous to even comment on but I can't not. He has decades worth of footage to leave his kids. Why on earth would he choose a feature length film to leave his kids and only his kids and not for the world to see since FILM has been his passion as he has expressed countless times! This was shot in HIGH DEFINITION with some very EXPENSIVE film, not "B" ( or footage OR documentary) quality. The film has what Michael has always told us to look for in his films - a beginning (introduction of how joyous dancers are to be part of the project) - a middle (how in his maturity he is giving his last "song and dance" of enough hits to satisfy the public, and leaving all the gyrations in the hands of the young dancers he has inspired) - and an "end" which sums up the entire purpose of the film - to use his noteriety for a larger purpose than "song and dance", returning us to the days of "Can You Feel It" (his first chance to freely express what was important to him in the world) and leave us caring about one another and the earth we live in. As a brilliant film maker, he even included a "subplot" - the "clues" that THIS IS ONLY A MOVIE just like he said in Thriller. "Its just a movie". That was the point of the "snippets" of songs (never intended to do a concert - sorry), the "Mundson" clue, and the message to the dancers afterward where the audience was in full participation NOT by happenstance - in Michaels words, (transcript of what I hear from a recorded version)

"you guys have done a great job, continue and amuse, have faith, you've given me your all, endurance patience, your understanding, but see that picture, its a clear picture, there's nothing to be nervous about, its one wonderful experience, ....you want to take them places they've never been before, you want to show them talent like they've never seen before, and give your all, I love you all, we're a family together, we're a family - we're putting love back into the world, reminding the world that uhh Love is important we're always supposed to love eachother, we're all ONE, lesson: take care of the planet, we have 4 years to get it right .... we have an important message here okay? its important but I, I, I, I thank you for your cooperation, you follow? THANK YOU, BIG THANK YOU (Kenny says, "thank you") and they all applaud wildly. - This was a message to his cast and a huge "clue" for those paying attention. Read it again. Judge for yourself. This is not something you say on the verge of a long 50 concert run. You tell them how they need to gear up, stay strong and healthy, take care of themselves, it will get arduous but hang in there etc. etc. Mike has seen how touring can take a toll. He would have been speaking that way, the way he undoubtedly heard it over the years in his youth and undoubtedly said to many a dancer, as to help them through it...not THANKING THEM for their COOPERATION as if their job was DONE (film wrap is what it sounded like to me).

7) No comment

8 ) The spoken
parts are clearly the best part. This is a film remember and not all
people knows the humanitarian side of Michael. And when they saw it and
heard Michael, they were not just impressed but saluted Michael for
being so true about his concern on our planet. I see nothing wrong with
that sweetie.

Of course his words showed his humanitarian side, but Michael did not randomly start talking to this hard working cast about is "humanitarian side" for no REASON. In this business "time is money". That would have had no place in it at all just because of a short snippet about the earth to be planned at the end of a concert.

9) No comment

10) One of the songs not included was Who Is It. FYI, it was supposed to be rehearsed June 25.

How do you know Who Is It was supposed to be rehearsed June 25th? Personally, I'm glad we didn't have to hear that painful song, funky as it is - jmo

By the way I didn't mean anything about you or your post. Wanted to use those points to point up the things about the movie that I conversely feel SCREAM: "planned", "orchestrated", "filmed as a film", "cast for a film" etc.

I do believe that its possible that at first MJ told the dancers they were going on tour but somewhere into it I believe they learned they were doing a very unusual "project" and I believe that is the reason he thanked them so ardously for the understanding, cooperation etc.

All I know is that right now my hat is OFF to all the "movie theorizers" on this board. I believe it doesn't stop with this movie though, and that is going to be the most amazing thing of all. Michael Jackson is indeed about to change the world. That's my story until something else makes better sense and I'm SO HAPPY I could run around in the street!! Sorry this is so dam long, please forgive me. L - O - V - E folks thanks