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Post by maya on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:46 am

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!



I was watching this site for several months and i am losing the patient. People research MJ life and go through his privacy witch I don't approve.
In the meaning time we are missing the main point of his hoax.He said in the move "This is the moment" "This is the time"
For what? What happened on 6/24/09. What was sign that day? Why was important for us, our freedom? Was it true what was told to us. Did we lost our freedom that day?Was that day begening of sefdestruction. Wake up!
MJ did not hoax his death for the stupid reasons. It takes a lot of guts to do it, but he did for us. Researching surcomstances surraunding his death we will unfold the truth.He can not do by himself, he needs help (listen to "CRY")
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Post by hAZZELY on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:28 am

What's the point of this topic?
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Post by hAZZELY on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:31 am

And by the way, this is admin section.

confused

MOVED to "Help me out! ~ Questions, polls or info/opinion needed from other members"
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Post by maya on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:04 pm

I am sorry that i took admin section but I have to say
if anybody care to check this site http://americandaily.com/index.php/article1280 .That is all.
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Post by Moonwalker213 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:14 pm

He had to have said, "This is the moment, this is it" for a reason. The pieces of the puzzle are slowly falling into place. But people getting into his personal life is way out of line. Only true MJ fans like us would understand to stay at the very end of the movie after the credits for a reason. This Is REALLY It!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_biggrin
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Post by maya on Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:49 pm

The point of this topic is that GLOBAL WARNING is hoax and we live in lie for decades. Check http:americandaily.com/index.php/article/1280
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Post by Harleyblonde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:09 pm

maya wrote:ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!



I was watching this site for several months and i am losing the patient. People research MJ life and go through his privacy witch I don't approve.
In the meaning time we are missing the main point of his hoax.He said in the move "This is the moment" "This is the time"
For what? What happened on 6/24/09. What was sign that day? Why was important for us, our freedom? Was it true what was told to us. Did we lost our freedom that day?Was that day begening of sefdestruction. Wake up!
MJ did not hoax his death for the stupid reasons. It takes a lot of guts to do it, but he did for us. Researching surcomstances surraunding his death we will unfold the truth.He can not do by himself, he needs help (listen to "CRY")

Sorry but I have a difference of opinion here. You say we are missing the point of the hoax, so you claim to know? that is very enlightening as none of us on here know the point of the hoax. In actual fact we have all reached the sensible conclusion that the only ones who will know the point and reason for sure is Michael and the few that are in on the hoax. I do however agree with you that his personal life should not concern us and should not be debated and should be kept private.
Yes I do agree MJ did not hoax his death for stupid reasons, you would have to be clinically insane and half brain dead not to know that but to say he did it for us is a statement that cannot be justified. He gave the public 45 years of his life and he has children to consider. Please do not assume that he owes us anything and I think right now he may be suffering knowing that the world is mourning his death but I believe after the court case and having been exploited by many people and used as a money making machine he will have felt pretty disillusioned by the world and human nature. I know I would. The things he had to suffer would make the hardest of hearts suffer but he was a sweet sensitive soul who was far too good in nature to be surrounded by parasites.
You say "researching circumstances surrounding his death we will unfold the truth, he can not do it himself, he needs help". For a start he is not dead-no death-get it? we have been researching for 4 months and we have no guarantee we will in fact unfold the truth, if MJ doesn't want us to know then we will never know-we can guess and speculate but we do not know and maybe never will. And as for "he cant do it himself, he needs help" Help with what? You cannot claim to know for sure as none of us do.
Yes ENOUGH IS ENOUGH is a very good title and I bet this is what Michael thought many many times , in times of despair and thoughts like this were probably a great contributing factor on him doing the hoax. I don't think he did it for us-he gave us more than enough, I don't expect any more from him and nor should anyone else. I hope he is at peace now and not worrying about things he fought for for many many years. The world is still bad, wars are still killing people, children are still starving and dying of disease in the 3rd world, people are still getting murdered, raped and robbed. For all his effort he couldn't change the world-no one can and it must have sickened him. Let him have peace and do not expect any more.
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Post by GirlInTheMirror1 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:20 pm

Good post, harleyblonde. Smile
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Post by Butterfly J on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:30 pm

@Harleyblonde, I totally agree with you ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cheers
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Post by amber on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:34 pm

Harley you are the voice of reason, thank you ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cheers
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Post by city.gal1 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:39 pm

@Harley, agreed. Enough is enough is correct -- therefore the death hoax.
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Post by EarthAngel90 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:41 pm

Thank You Harley - Brilliant Words to say ...
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Post by Harleyblonde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:43 pm

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:Good post, harleyblonde. Smile

Thanks for that. I hope I don't sound too harsh but I (and am sure many others) am a bit sick of people claiming to know why this whole thing is happening and are sure that MJ has a motive. The plain truth is no one knows and they should maybe have a bit of compassion and do not just think that Michael is planning something in the future because the fact is he may not be. He may be suffering and scared right now. Can you imagine how hard and traumatic it was to pull off a hoax of that magnitude knowing that the result is the capabilities of not just yourself but of others? I cannot begin to imagine what he went through and even what he is going through now in these first few months so please lets not expect that MJ has something else on his agenda for us. I myself am deeply grateful for what he gave of himself and his talent and art for 45 years so we cannot just assume that he has the energy or motivation to give the world any more. He is a man, a human being with feelings and sensitivity and we must remember that and consider maybe just maybe he may feel he has done enough and can do no more.
If you all keep this in mind there are no expectations and no disappointments.

Thanks all-will get off my soapbox now!!
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Post by MJFOREVER on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:48 pm

Harleyblonde wrote:
maya wrote:ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!



I was watching this site for several months and i am losing the patient. People research MJ life and go through his privacy witch I don't approve.
In the meaning time we are missing the main point of his hoax.He said in the move "This is the moment" "This is the time"
For what? What happened on 6/24/09. What was sign that day? Why was important for us, our freedom? Was it true what was told to us. Did we lost our freedom that day?Was that day begening of sefdestruction. Wake up!
MJ did not hoax his death for the stupid reasons. It takes a lot of guts to do it, but he did for us. Researching surcomstances surraunding his death we will unfold the truth.He can not do by himself, he needs help (listen to "CRY")

Sorry but I have a difference of opinion here. You say we are missing the point of the hoax, so you claim to know? that is very enlightening as none of us on here know the point of the hoax. In actual fact we have all reached the sensible conclusion that the only ones who will know the point and reason for sure is Michael and the few that are in on the hoax. I do however agree with you that his personal life should not concern us and should not be debated and should be kept private.
Yes I do agree MJ did not hoax his death for stupid reasons, you would have to be clinically insane and half brain dead not to know that but to say he did it for us is a statement that cannot be justified. He gave the public 45 years of his life and he has children to consider. Please do not assume that he owes us anything and I think right now he may be suffering knowing that the world is mourning his death but I believe after the court case and having been exploited by many people and used as a money making machine he will have felt pretty disillusioned by the world and human nature. I know I would. The things he had to suffer would make the hardest of hearts suffer but he was a sweet sensitive soul who was far too good in nature to be surrounded by parasites.
You say "researching circumstances surrounding his death we will unfold the truth, he can not do it himself, he needs help". For a start he is not dead-no death-get it? we have been researching for 4 months and we have no guarantee we will in fact unfold the truth, if MJ doesn't want us to know then we will never know-we can guess and speculate but we do not know and maybe never will. And as for "he cant do it himself, he needs help" Help with what? You cannot claim to know for sure as none of us do.
Yes ENOUGH IS ENOUGH is a very good title and I bet this is what Michael thought many many times , in times of despair and thoughts like this were probably a great contributing factor on him doing the hoax. I don't think he did it for us-he gave us more than enough, I don't expect any more from him and nor should anyone else. I hope he is at peace now and not worrying about things he fought for for many many years. The world is still bad, wars are still killing people, children are still starving and dying of disease in the 3rd world, people are still getting murdered, raped and robbed. For all his effort he couldn't change the world-no one can and it must have sickened him. Let him have peace and do not expect any more.

very good post harley Smile
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Post by Red Velvet on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:50 pm

I'd be so curious to know how many people who have responded in this thread have or have not seen the movie yet? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_lol ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_wink
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Post by rowdyangel on Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:47 pm

Great post harley. Totally agree with you. Michael owes us NOTHING.
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Post by kdkennedy74 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:53 pm

Wow Harleyblonde...I honestly could not have put that into words myself but you hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cheers
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Post by Red Velvet on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:02 pm

With all due respect to all of you who seemed to take it the way you did, I must say I understood the post differently.

The poster didn't say that Michael owes anybody anything. The poster said that Michael is doing it for US and if you saw the film you would know that he is. He's not doing it for us because he owes it - he's doing it out of L.O.V.E.

He asked the question, "What more can I give" and HE came up with an answer. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_biggrin and its beautiful and wonderful!!! the way I see it. There is greater joy in giving for Michael and giving to the WHOLE WORLD is what he is doing. You still didn't answer whether you guys who have posted have seen the movie. I don't feel June 24th per se is particularly significant but everything else the poster said made complete sense to me and they don't seem to me to feel they know anything. I don't understand where you guys are coming from with that. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cool

I have to ask again .. did those who have posted see - the - movie - or - not

If not - go see it - then come back and tell how you feel about all this ...

I noticed the attitudes seem to be divided now between those who have seen the movie and those who haven't. It makes a big difference in perceiving tis whole thing...I didn't think it would, but it really does to me anyway.
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Post by MJJ Love on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:03 pm

HARLEY BLONDE.
I enjoy your posts very much.
You always give it to us RUGGED, RAW AND REAL!
I respect that.
Your posts above are excellent and you put in a great way.
MJ deserves his freedom finally.
We should not expect anything more as we've been blessed with so much already. Tons of Music, Tons of Videos, Pictures, DVD's , Movies and ETC. We can always look back and think of how much of a wonderful person he was. We should teach our young about him and the things he went through and try to continue to pass on his wonderful gift and vision he wanted for the world.
All he wanted was to give peace and love.

THANK YOU for posting this.
Some people are selfish in their thoughts and NEED To read your words above. (Note- not speaking of any particular people within this thread or board.... BUT IN GENERAL. Although I have seen some pretty selfish things on this forum earlier in the summer.

*Toni Stands and to give a standing ovation to HARLEY BLONDE*
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Post by Banessa on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:22 pm

Red Velvet wrote:With all due respect to all of you who seemed to take it the way you did, I must say I understood the post differently.

The poster didn't say that Michael owes anybody anything. The poster said that Michael is doing it for US and if you saw the film you would know that he is. He's not doing it for us because he owes it - he's doing it out of L.O.V.E.

He asked the question, "What more can I give" and HE came up with an answer. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_biggrin and its beautiful and wonderful!!! the way I see it. There is greater joy in giving for Michael and giving to the WHOLE WORLD is what he is doing. You still didn't answer whether you guys who have posted have seen the movie. I don't feel June 24th per se is particularly significant but everything else the poster said made complete sense to me and they don't seem to me to feel they know anything. I don't understand where you guys are coming from with that. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cool

I have to ask again .. did those who have posted see - the - movie - or - not

If not - go see it - then come back and tell how you feel about all this ...

I noticed the attitudes seem to be divided now between those who have seen the movie and those who haven't. It makes a big difference in perceiving tis whole thing...I didn't think it would, but it really does to me anyway.

I have seen the movie and I agree with you 100% on your post very beautifully stated! I felt he was doing it all for LOVE the LOVE he feels and has for his fans. Not that he would have to do anything for us but he is doing it because it's what he wanted to do and is what makes him HAPPY! To me he looked ALIVE, CHEERFUL, HEALTHY, and ENTHUSIASTIC. Maybe in some scenes he does seem to look on the thin side but not frail and sick! My opinion after seeing the movie. I left the theater knowing he is ALIVE, WELL in no apparent DANGER and with a great sense of happiness from the MAGIC I had just experienced. He is a GENIUS a CREATOR and an INNOVATOR. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_wink Just my opinion.
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Post by Harleyblonde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:30 pm

@Red Velvet, I have seen the movie, I have in fact watched it 3 times.
I think your interpertation of MJs words can be taken the way you think and I respect your opinion but we do not agree and we do not actually know if Michael has had anything to do with the movie, he was obviously filming and rehearsing up until 24th june so for all we know and would seem the only practical thing for him would be in hiding in possibly a remote place where no one would ever dream of looking. the editing and sequence in which the scenes/words etc may not be the work of Michael and even if this is the work of him how can you say by some things he said is an intention of what he was to do? He has always preached love-that is nothing new.
I am sorry but I have my own views and ideas and I think that some people unfairly expect more and more from him and it is not realistic to put any human being on a pedestal of that high magnitude, he was flesh and blood and felt hurt and fatigue and pain like anyone. We all have our different opinions and we should respect that but we should also respect the fact we should feel compasion and understanding and not assume that Michael had anything planned.
Thanks to all the others for your nice remarks and posts and am so glad you can understand.
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Post by Red Velvet on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:48 pm

Banessa wrote:
Red Velvet wrote:With all due respect to all of you who seemed to take it the way you did, I must say I understood the post differently.

The poster didn't say that Michael owes anybody anything. The poster said that Michael is doing it for US and if you saw the film you would know that he is. He's not doing it for us because he owes it - he's doing it out of L.O.V.E.

He asked the question, "What more can I give" and HE came up with an answer. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_biggrin and its beautiful and wonderful!!! the way I see it. There is greater joy in giving for Michael and giving to the WHOLE WORLD is what he is doing. You still didn't answer whether you guys who have posted have seen the movie. I don't feel June 24th per se is particularly significant but everything else the poster said made complete sense to me and they don't seem to me to feel they know anything. I don't understand where you guys are coming from with that. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cool

I have to ask again .. did those who have posted see - the - movie - or - not

If not - go see it - then come back and tell how you feel about all this ...

I noticed the attitudes seem to be divided now between those who have seen the movie and those who haven't. It makes a big difference in perceiving tis whole thing...I didn't think it would, but it really does to me anyway.

I have seen the movie and I agree with you 100% on your post very beautifully stated! I felt he was doing it all for LOVE the LOVE he feels and has for his fans. Not that he would have to do anything for us but he is doing it because it's what he wanted to do and is what makes him HAPPY! To me he looked ALIVE, CHEERFUL, HEALTHY, and ENTHUSIASTIC. Maybe in some scenes he does seem to look on the thin side but not frail and sick! My opinion after seeing the movie. I left the theater knowing he is ALIVE, WELL in no apparent DANGER and with a great sense of happiness from the MAGIC I had just experienced. He is a GENIUS a CREATOR and an INNOVATOR. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_wink Just my opinion.
I agree ... that was all exactly my "take-away" from it too.

I went in that movie terrified of that awful "oh my God this is the last time I'm seeing him work, oh Lord its my final tribute to him" feeling and I came out dumbfounded at his GENIUS! Its so easy to "see" (with spiritual eyes) what his purpose could be, but those who, either didn't see the movie OR only watched from a purely "historical" frame of mind (a frame of mind that actually deep down at the most core level believes/accepts he is dead and felt they were watching a "dead man" perform) like so many members of the public who were at the theatre with me .. talking to them on the elevators etc. ... they can be very "analytical" and say, "oh well they made it look like this or that through editing etc." but ... no Laughing ... when you pay attention to certain things you can see that that movie appears to have been indeed directed and edited by the one and only!! MJ!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cheers ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cheers ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cheers iTS PURE GENIUS! The way he arranged the credits to clue us in ... the way he chose certain snippets to show that nobody else could have chosen and got the same points across ... the Mundson clue is wicked!! Laughing the guy is just ... I['m speechless .. and I am someone who absolutely was furious that AEG was getting my money because part of me felt they may have "killed" MJ for real ... and part of me couldn't bare to see him in his "final days", part of me felt (and had expressed to a certain degree) that the "movie theory" was stretching the hell out of someone's imagination and even felt on a level that it was stupid to think that MJ would be "hoaxing" his "death" having anything to do with any "movie" okay? I mean, I ran and the WHOLE NINE onbeing predisposed to come out of there feeling NONE of what I came out with ... so

I do agree with you, Harley on one thing ... we are NOT going to really KNOW until he tells us, but I have a feeling that when we find out ...we're all going to be in for a very pleasant SH OCK of a surprise!! Laughing Well two things, the other is that we have to agree to odisagree and nothing wrong with that either. Smile

MY feeling (yes FEELING) is that MJ is taking the world on a big giant wonderful roller coaster ride IMO and I'm enjoying every second of it. Even those who cried bitter tears will scream with joy and delight IMO ... JUST my opinion of course (as if that has to be said on a message board over and over again but I guess we just have to do it to remind people who need to hear it sometimes ...we're all just a bunch of different opinions)
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Post by Pammy on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:53 pm

@Maya:I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! I think most of the ppl DONT GET IT!

Michael did it for us for LOVE and with love. He owns us nothing because he did all he could thru the years....tried to give us signs in his songs....talked to us in riddles sometimes because it was DANGEROUS for him but unfortunatly nobody really listened to him or understood what he wanted. Ok maybe a few did and started to do something for healing the wordl and fighting. He warned us about the biggest problem we have. Its no longer about healing the world.....We have to SAVE THE WORLD!

Remember his speech about Sony in 2002 ?? This was just a little part of this conspiracy.
I said it a few times as well .... WAKE UP !!! sorry but im a bit upset right now .... Crying or Very sad

please check the link Maya posted ITS IMPORTANT!!!! and also check stuff about the Bilderberg Club and the Illuminati.... i know that some ppl might say that this is stupid bs and just conspiracy theory but in my eyes and what i also had to go thru during the last months....its fact...ppl just wanna live in their dream world ...dont want to see the real world!

Michael sang about these group of bas*** (sorry ) in his songs....for example They dont care about us! What do u think was the reason to let especially this song be the first one that ppl were able to hear from his "last rehearsals" ....

i hope this is also what u were talkin about Maya .... Embarassed at least this is my opinion abd what i think is his message to us. Love each other , stick together and save our planet, protect our children and get rid of these mean ppl!!!! I cant explain what i think in english ...if u want to help Michael then DO SOMETHING before its to late

and i guess there is much more to come ....This is still NOT it.... at all


oh btw....after checking Maya´s link i saw this green monster or what ever this is LOL ..... and it reminds me on some of BACK´s posts and Mystery777 .... Back once said FOCUS ON THE GREEN and so i clicked on that link and got forwarded to this page: http://greeenism.moveoff.ws/ and http://moveoffllc.com/
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Post by maya on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:35 pm

I am very surprised how people react on this post. I never said that anybody expected anything from MJ. Maybe he was forced to do hoax nobody knows. We all saw clues in the move he intensionaly showed to us. Following the clues eveybody come to their conclusions. We are hear to solve the puzzels, mayby will help MJ or will help us. I can not understand some people who pity MJ. He was fighter and will always be.He went through hell and survives. I just wonted to share here my findings, get some help and opinion. My finding scares me and I got to that just following the clues. I am Europian and realy do not know American politic well but was suppriced that GLOBAL WARNING was hoax and just used as masive fear destruction in order to rule the world. We lived in lie for decades. Obama signed the bill on 6/24/09 but in many educate people opinion that is Americans suicide and economy death. Perhaps that is not news for you but for me was big thing.
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Post by Harleyblonde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:39 pm

[quote="Pammy"]@Maya:I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! I think most of the ppl DONT GET IT!

Michael did it for us for LOVE and with love. He owns us nothing because he did all he could thru the years....tried to give us signs in his songs....talked to us in riddles sometimes because it was DANGEROUS for him but unfortunatly nobody really listened to him or understood what he wanted. Ok maybe a few did and started to do something for healing the wordl and fighting. He warned us about the biggest problem we have. Its no longer about healing the world.....We have to SAVE THE WORLD!

Remember his speech about Sony in 2002 ?? This was just a little part of this conspiracy.
I said it a few times as well .... WAKE UP !!! sorry but im a bit upset right now .... Crying or Very sad

please check the link Maya posted ITS IMPORTANT!!!! and also check stuff about the Bilderberg Club and the Illuminati.... i know that some ppl might say that this is stupid bs and just conspiracy theory but in my eyes and what i also had to go thru during the last months....its fact...ppl just wanna live in their dream world ...dont want to see the real world!

Michael sang about these group of bas*** (sorry ) in his songs....for example They dont care about us! What do u think was the reason to let especially this song be the first one that ppl were able to hear from his "last rehearsals" ....

i hope this is also what u were talkin about Maya .... Embarassed at least this is my opinion abd what i think is his message to us. Love each other , stick together and save our planet, protect our children and get rid of these mean ppl!!!! I cant explain what i think in english ...if u want to help Michael then DO SOMETHING before its to late

and i guess there is much more to come ....This is still NOT it.... at all


oh btw....after checking Maya´s link i saw this green monster or what ever this is LOL ..... and it reminds me on some of BACK´s posts and Mystery777 .... Back once said FOCUS ON THE GREEN and so i clicked on that link and got forwarded to this page: http://greeenism.moveoff.ws/ and http://moveoffllc.com/[/quote]

I honestly thinking you are living in a dream world! Yes Michael did have many songs with messages of love and issues concerning injustices and rights of people and message of very important issues but then so did many people-among them Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Joan Baez, in fact the whole hippy movement of the 60's was "make love not war" and John and Yoko had a "sleep in protest" in bed for days for world peace and invited the media. Indeed many artists either sang love songs or songs of protest of some thing that they feel passionate about. To think there are hidden motives and intentions in Michaels word, speeches and lyrics is I think taking it to the extreme to say the least.
OK- try SAVING THE WORLD if you can?? Stop all the starving and disease in the 3rd world, stop the factories belting out obnoxious smoke and pollution, stop the murders, violence and crime, stop the wars where innocent citizens and soldiers on both sides are killed and people are left homeless and bereaved, I could go on and on. He did want to save the word-who doesn't but if you think he can do it now you need to remove your rose coloured glasses.
If you think for a single minute that Michael intended to leave this message to the world after his departure and he thought it was actually possible then you are seriously suffering from delusions. For a start it is a sad fact that not everyone in the world loved Michael, it is also a sad fact that some did not even like him, it is also a sad fact and I will go as far as to say that if you look at some of the sick things on the internet and the tabloids then I will honestly go as far as to say some even hated him. Also there are many billions in the 3rd world that have no acess to the internet, no television and cannot afford food so are hardly likely to buy even a newspaper and will have no chance at all of watching his movie so in view of all these facts how is Michael going to save the world??
Remove your blinkers and watch the news around the world-if you believe it can be saved then I understand there are nice places with nice staff in nice white coats, plenty of medication and straight jackets.
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Post by Red Velvet on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:47 pm

@HarleyBlonde - please read the original poster's comment again - you'll see this is a person groping for some truth just like everyone else.

Nobody ever said anything about expecting more from MJ nor did anybody say anything about wanting more from MJ nor did anyone say anything about MJ "owing" anyone anything - or anything LIKE that.

I wish you'd read it again and see the movie again ... each with discernment this time. Your intelligence is well respected by me, this is the only reason I feel you are open enough to take on what I'm saying with LOVE Smile whether you end up agreeing or not. L.O.V.E. its all ALL about LOVE (for MJ as well as eachother ... and hoping, deeply believing and (if we are correct) sensitvely DISCERNING that he is ALIVE. (imo imo imo imo imo imo) Laughing

It because of the very thing you are imo (and not in a bad way) "taking for granted" about Michael, his "save the world" stuff - that Michael has deepened his commitment to do just THAT as far as he's able - before he actually leaves this world FOR REAL. That's the way its looking to me right about now.

For all I know you could watch the movie a hundred times and not believe it until MJ walks up in your face, I just feel you're very intelligent and may think twice if you see the movie again with new "eyes" of discernment...but that's JMO.
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Post by Banessa on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:07 pm

I just want to remind everyone..and it is very SAD we have to do this too often but this is an open forum and everyone is ENTITLED to their own opinions and beliefs.

We are not here to bash, Jump, insult or belittle anyone who does not share the same belief and opinion as we personally do! Remember Discussion NOT Attacking!

We are all different and we all see things differently! Honestly sometimes it seems and I wonder if we have really forgotten that this is about MICHAEL and not about, who is right and who is wrong! Not about trying to change people's opinions and beliefs.

Like Red Velvet said "Lets agree to disagree!" and if we can't lets move on! RESPECT each other!!!! We shouldn't have to keep repeating this (after 4 months) over and over. Come...On, some of us are adults lets act like it! LOVE ya all and PLEASE keep the peace and keep it cool! ♥️ ♥️ ♥️
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Post by Harleyblonde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:18 pm

Red Velvet wrote:@HarleyBlonde - please read the original poster's comment again - you'll see this is a person groping for some truth just like everyone else.

Nobody ever said anything about expecting more from MJ nor did anybody say anything about wanting more from MJ nor did anyone say anything about MJ "owing" anyone anything - or anything LIKE that.

I wish you'd read it again and see the movie again ... each with discernment this time. Your intelligence is well respected by me, this is the only reason I feel you are open enough to take on what I'm saying with LOVE Smile whether you end up agreeing or not. L.O.V.E. its all ALL about LOVE (for MJ as well as eachother ... and hoping, deeply believing and (if we are correct) sensitvely DISCERNING that he is ALIVE. (imo imo imo imo imo imo) Laughing

It because of the very thing you are imo (and not in a bad way) "taking for granted" about Michael, his "save the world" stuff - that Michael has deepened his commitment to do just THAT as far as he's able - before he actually leaves this world FOR REAL. That's the way its looking to me right about now.

For all I know you could watch the movie a hundred times and not believe it until MJ walks up in your face, I just feel you're very intelligent and may think twice if you see the movie again with new "eyes" of discernment...but that's JMO.

I do appreciate your views and you have a nice way of putting across your difference of opinion and I thank you for that and for your kind comment. I do understand what you are saying but firstly I do not think there is a hope in hell that he will return, I wish I did believe and if I am proved to be wrong then I will admit it. I wish I did share your opinions, I have tried and tried but I guess we all think differently and I really would like to feel more optimistic like you are as I believe it would make me feel better to have your outlook on all that has occured.
I also think that what we have endured, seen and learned in our lives makes us think how we do, I cannot even pretend to know what it is to be in a war torn country although I hear my Grandmother speak of the terrors of the 2nd world war but I have lived in a 3rd world country and witnessed poverty to the extreme, I have heard tales from my Husband who was born and grew up there speaking of the many family members and friend he lost through diseases that are unknown here in the "rich" world and can be cured for a few quid. In fact his Father died of maleria when my Husband was a child as it was a remote village and died before he was carried many miles to a hospital. In respect of our own experiences and views and disappointments how can such as I think that the world can be saved? Would be a nice thought but if you want to lose your very rosy sunny outlook and faith in mankind and fairness then please get a ticket to a 3rd world place and stay not in the tourist hotels but in the villages where the local ordinary people live-good decent sweet people who live from day to day and have absolutely no hope for the future and are very lucky to reach even middle age. You do that and then tell me what you have posted.
I think you are reading too much into the film etc and if I had your outlook and optimismn then I would feel the same but I cannot. Please feel comfort that you are thinking as you are as the alternative hurts. The thought that people around the world suffer hurts but nothing can change it. Please read my last post again. Michael can maybe reach a great many people but probably only a quarter of the world. I cannot share your views.
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Post by infinitylady on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:43 pm

Harleyblonde,

you are right on about the illuminati and the bilderberg group. This info is so much on youtube you can't ignore it. They are the Elite and we are at the bottom of the totem pole.....clueless.
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Post by maya on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:10 pm

Harleyblonde,

I come from Sarajevo, Bosnia and went through the hell of the war, saw terrible things. Crossed all Euro borders illegal with two kids trying to find the place to live and survive.Our lives were always in danger. But I never lost the hope. So all this hunger people have hope as long they live, that is human nature. Maybe you have hope but you just don't wont to see. With L.O.V.E
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Post by Harleyblonde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:34 pm

maya wrote:Harleyblonde,

I come from Sarajevo, Bosnia and went through the hell of the war, saw terrible things. Crossed all Euro borders illegal with two kids trying to find the place to live and survive.Our lives were always in danger. But I never lost the hope. So all this hunger people have hope as long they live, that is human nature. Maybe you have hope but you just don't wont to see. With L.O.V.E

I am sorry your country has suffered, all war is indeed tragic, pointless and at the end of the day no one wins and there is suffering on all sides. But please understand that the tragic and terrible sufferings of your land was due to war, it is not 3rd world. I am not seeming cruel and uncaring and I am not stating your countries suffering was any less than 3rd world, that is precisely why I did mention war in my post making all aware of the suffering but your country had hope. 3rd world has no hope. What of the people who live in extreme poverty, do not even have clean running water and watch their loved ones die of typhoid, maleria etc and this is what life is there all the time, not just in times of war. This is what they have all their lives, Mothers watching their child suffering and unable to do anything. A child dies of maleria every 3 seconds in the 3rd world. I have seen children and babies die of disease that a few dollars could have been cured, I have seen street orphans and elderly living on the streets scavenging in the rubbish piles as there are no orphanages and no homes for the elderly. These are not countries suffering from war so have absolutely no hope, it has been like this for many many years and is unlikely to change. If you could see the eyes and pitiful existance of these people you will see there is no hope. God bless you and take comfort that you are ok and that your hope kept you going but unfortunately some have no hope at all.
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Post by maya on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:44 pm

If you read more about NWO you will find that 3rd world they make on porpouse same as they dictate war in my country and other countries.They rule the world and decide where to start the war, where to infect people to suffer and die. Meyby I should not say this but I am upset.And there is more of us then them. So there is hope.
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Post by Pammy on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:48 pm

Harleyblonde wrote:
I honestly thinking you are living in a dream world! Yes Michael did have many songs with messages of love and issues concerning injustices and rights of people and message of very important issues but then so did many people-among them Bob Dylan, John Lennon, Joan Baez, in fact the whole hippy movement of the 60's was "make love not war" and John and Yoko had a "sleep in protest" in bed for days for world peace and invited the media. Indeed many artists either sang love songs or songs of protest of some thing that they feel passionate about. To think there are hidden motives and intentions in Michaels word, speeches and lyrics is I think taking it to the extreme to say the least.
OK- try SAVING THE WORLD if you can?? Stop all the starving and disease in the 3rd world, stop the factories belting out obnoxious smoke and pollution, stop the murders, violence and crime, stop the wars where innocent citizens and soldiers on both sides are killed and people are left homeless and bereaved, I could go on and on. He did want to save the word-who doesn't but if you think he can do it now you need to remove your rose coloured glasses.
If you think for a single minute that Michael intended to leave this message to the world after his departure and he thought it was actually possible then you are seriously suffering from delusions. For a start it is a sad fact that not everyone in the world loved Michael, it is also a sad fact that some did not even like him, it is also a sad fact and I will go as far as to say that if you look at some of the sick things on the internet and the tabloids then I will honestly go as far as to say some even hated him. Also there are many billions in the 3rd world that have no acess to the internet, no television and cannot afford food so are hardly likely to buy even a newspaper and will have no chance at all of watching his movie so in view of all these facts how is Michael going to save the world??
Remove your blinkers and watch the news around the world-if you believe it can be saved then I understand there are nice places with nice staff in nice white coats, plenty of medication and straight jackets.

ooooh wow thanks for the nice answer! This is just my opinion and my way of looking at things. I know whats goin on in the world , i see that every day, and i know that i cant save the world all alone or make it a better place. We are all ONE - dont forget about that. I dont want to argue here anymore or try to wake people up. Its so sad and it also makes me angry that most of them are to blind to "see" what are the backgrounds of this NWO system. Nobody in this world would have to suffer or being killed in wars or being murderd....ITS THEIR FAULT! THEY RULE THE WORLD!! But i guess you have no time for such conspiracys....u better go and download a new ringtone or what ever ...thats most important right???

I have enough of hearing that every day. I should go to mental house or what ever because i just wanna help. I know that i do NOT live in a dream world anymore. I finally woke up And im not alone with it. Thank god. Why are most ppl like that? They are not interested in stuff thats important. They dont even know anymore whats important.... they get brainwashed thru their television and the media .... but what the f* am i talking.... im the stupid one...sorry .... Evil or Very Mad

@Banessa: Thanks for your nice words. I appreciate that. Love to you I love you
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Post by Harleyblonde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:08 pm

maya wrote:If you read more about NWO you will find that 3rd world they make on porpouse same as they dictate war in my country and other countries.They rule the world and decide where to start the war, where to infect people to suffer and die. Meyby I should not say this but I am upset.And there is more of us then them. So there is hope.

No no no, am sorry but I completely disagree, maleria and typhoid are endemic in tropical countries. From the very first days of the explorers when there were no governments in African countries many explorers died of maleria and such diseases. In fact Livingstone suffered it. The building of the Ugandan/Kenyan railway when Kenya was British at the beginning of last century more than 100 yeras ago there were a great many deaths from maleria and even attacks from killer lions. Do we in our comfortable lives have to worry every day about mosquito and snake bites and drinking from dirty water? Africa is huge and the majority of people living there are in extreme poverty for all their lives. Please, you and your children are ok now, but I implore you to spare a thought for the many suffering at this very minute.
And do not think for a minute the British have had it easy, read about the poor young men forced to fight in the first world war in the trenches crawling along with just enough room for them, God knows how far down buried alive for days at a time in damp filthy conditions and if they were lucky they were not buried alive. And think of our young men in the second world war who were captured and placed in the Japanese prisioner of war camps, they would have been luckier to have been killed, take a look at the photo's of these men on the internet and look at their legs as thin as a pole and ribs sticking out. Most of them didn't survive. Shell shocked soldiers were shot for cowardice by their own men and it has been proved since to be a medical condition. Ask my Grandmother about her Mother who was bombed here in Yorkshire and it took them3 days to reach her body from all the rubble.
But as I said war countries survive and even through many losses the remaining ones rebuild their lives. The 3rd world cannot. How would you feel if one of your children had a fatal tropical disease and you had to watch that child die because there was no one to help? That is extreme suffering with no hope.
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Post by Pammy on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:21 pm

@Harleyblonde: Sorry to say that but u are just to blind to see the truth......

Maya thank god that there are more ppl in the meantime wakin up and helping to DO something against these ..cant find the right words for ppl like that... I cant understand it.... MONEY MONEY MONEY is all they see .... Ppl have no time or dont want to take this time to watch videos like Zeitgeist or Endgame ....or stuff about Illuminati....because they think its only fiction and stuff of movies....
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Post by Harleyblonde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:34 pm

@Pammy, I have no such intention of arguing online but to say that the 3rd worlds suffering is their fault is absolute ignorance. And to imply I am more interested in a new ringtone than the suffering of the world is absolutely not fair and not true. What are you doing to "heal the world"? Are you supporting and doing all that you believe Michael stood for and wanted? Are you sacrificing a great amount to help people in poor countries? Are you finding it hard to sleep sometimes through worry to meet your obligations to help in the 3rd world knowing that people are depending on you?Unless you are in those positions then you will be in no position to advise me of things to claim to know so much about.
If you choose to carry on this discussion then I suggest you PM Rach as she knows all about me and what I do so please do not suggest I do not know what I am talking about, you stay in your warm comfortable life thinking that the worlds suffering is down to them and is self inflicted if it makes you feel better but you are way out in your views. I feel very strongly about matters such as this and have had some lovely response from some very dear sweet members but to not read any words of sorrow for the many suffering in a post such as yours is something I never thought I would see on this forum.
God bless and I do pity you for your views.
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Post by maya on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:49 pm

HARLEYBLONDE, I am sorry for your experience and understand your frustration. Working with many African people and helping them I am little bit aware of situation there. Yes maleria is taking lives there because they are tropical countries. But there are many other disease witch comes from nowhere and killing people. Why they don't get help? Because it is not in "their" interest.Read more what they make of Africa and what their plans are.. I can not write everything hear.
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Post by Harleyblonde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:12 pm

maya wrote:HARLEYBLONDE, I am sorry for your experience and understand your frustration. Working with many African people and helping them I am little bit aware of situation there. Yes maleria is taking lives there because they are tropical countries. But there are many other disease witch comes from nowhere and killing people. Why they don't get help? Because it is not in "their" interest.Read more what they make of Africa and what their plans are.. I can not write everything hear.

Ok, Thanks for that. I do follow what plans there are in Africa and some aid etc is getting through but that is a tiny drop in the ocean. I felt no hope years ago and still feel no hope and I know it is not just Africa, that is why I said the 3rd world. I do not know what you mean by "why dont they get help" if you mean the corrupt governments who are living in the height of luxury and own many things of great value, hotels, luxury cars etc then ok. But try telling explaining politics to a desperately poor family living in a mud hut with no amenities, no electricity, no running water that cannot even read or write? What do they know of such things? Some of them have never even been to a city. How can countries spend billions on space travel when half of the world is starving? I could go on and on but I would be writing a book. I was quite comfortable in my world, I had seen things as such and read about these countries, even went on holiday but until I lived in the village and witnessed things at first hand until that time I consider I was totally ignorant. I was lucky, when I was sick with no money my Sister flew out there with her credit card but who living there has the chance to survive like that? I vowed from that day I would do all I could to help and I have stood by my word and I thank God I am in that position. I did not mean to sound cruel and the way this topic has gone has left me very upset and sometimes I wake in the night and cry for the things I have witnessed, and we are talking good people who have no idea of politics and indeed why they are suffering. I want to make people aware. No one can heal the world, it is suffering too much, there are very rich and the starving and it has always been like that.
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Post by jpresley on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:14 pm

I don't why discussions of this nature have to eventually turn into a tit for tat as to who has experienced more pain and suffering and who has the higher moral authority. We all have different experiences and backgrounds that guide our perceptions of the world around us. It is not appropriate in a forum such as this (when we have supposedly all come together to find the truth about Michael) to essentially denigrate another's point of view to get your own point across.

@Harleyblonde:

I respect that you have seen many things and your outlook on the world in general is colored by your experiences. However, you come across as very hostile and antagonistic in your stance. To the point that I have personally never engaged you before simply because I didn't want the fight, nor do I want one now. Honestly, this has gone from a discussion about Michael's intentions to the plight of third world countries?! I'm sorry, but every single one of us has a right to our own opinion and no one - on a forum such as this - has the right to berate other members simply because they have a different point of view/life experience. It's uncalled for and is hurtful and there is no good reason for it.
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Post by yaya on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:17 pm

jpresley wrote:I don't why discussions of this nature have to eventually turn into a tit for tat as to who has experienced more pain and suffering and who has the higher moral authority. We all have different experiences and backgrounds that guide our perceptions of the world around us. It is not appropriate in a forum such as this (when we have supposedly all come together to find the truth about Michael) to essentially denigrate another's point of view to get your own point across.

@Harleyblonde:

I respect that you have seen many things and your outlook on the world in general is colored by your experiences. However, you come across as very hostile and antagonistic in your stance. To the point that I have personally never engaged you before simply because I didn't want the fight, nor do I want one now. Honestly, this has gone from a discussion about Michael's intentions to the plight of third world countries?! I'm sorry, but every single one of us has a right to our own opinion and no one - on a forum such as this - has the right to berate other members simply because they have a different point of view/life experience. It's uncalled for and is hurtful and there is no good reason for it.

i agree, and you explained it perfectly!
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Post by jpresley on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:20 pm

@yaya

Thank you! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cheers
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Post by yaya on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:42 pm

jpresley wrote:@yaya

Thank you! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_cheers

you're welc! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_biggrin
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ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Empty Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Harleyblonde on Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:45 pm

jpresley wrote:I don't why discussions of this nature have to eventually turn into a tit for tat as to who has experienced more pain and suffering and who has the higher moral authority. We all have different experiences and backgrounds that guide our perceptions of the world around us. It is not appropriate in a forum such as this (when we have supposedly all come together to find the truth about Michael) to essentially denigrate another's point of view to get your own point across.

@Harleyblonde:

I respect that you have seen many things and your outlook on the world in general is colored by your experiences. However, you come across as very hostile and antagonistic in your stance. To the point that I have personally never engaged you before simply because I didn't want the fight, nor do I want one now. Honestly, this has gone from a discussion about Michael's intentions to the plight of third world countries?! I'm sorry, but every single one of us has a right to our own opinion and no one - on a forum such as this - has the right to berate other members simply because they have a different point of view/life experience. It's uncalled for and is hurtful and there is no good reason for it.

Hmm, ok you are entitled to your opinion but I have not used any bad language, I have seen some foul words on here and we do have young vulnerable members but I have stayed quiet about that. Please look up the word hostile as I do not think you have the right meaning.What I do object to are views of a nature which not all of us can agree with being thrust at us and the said members do not think for one minute that others have a difference of opinion and not imply but tell us that those who do not have not watched the movie and do not understand things that they see and make us look like idiots. I have had some very nice responses to my posts so I suggest you backtrack and take a look at them. Also do not think for one moment that discussions of a different nature have been posted on this forum, at least Michael believed in helping and was aware of the 3rd world but I have read topics on all different kinds of things on here including other men we find attractive so please don't criticise me for something so petty. It has also been suggested that I am more interested in downloading music than the troubles of the world, isn't that offensive? I have also had a post with bright red capital letters shouting at me, isn't that also offensive?
Seems to me you stick up for those who agree with your posts and you do not expect anyone to have an opinion which you do not like. I really do not care what you think of me but I have strong points of view and some do not like that-usually the ones with not much of an opinion to start with. I have had many many nice PMs in the past because I have stood up for what I believe in and am not scared to state a point of view and if someone cares to say that I do not know what I am talking about instead of just suggesting I may be wrong and their view is different which is how it should be then yes I am guilty of fighting back with sarcasmn. Unlike some I do not lick boots, patronise and am not afraid to voice an opinion.
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Post by jpresley on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:02 pm

@Harleyblonde:

Your response to my moderate post is the very definition of hostile and combative. Not once did I say that I thought you didn't know what you were talking about, I was simply pointing out how you come across overall. And, I really, really don't care how many nice PM's you get and while I appreciate your suggestion that I backtrack, I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions. Perhaps you should backtrack and read MY posts, because you will see that while i have certainly voiced an opinion I have never contributed to the more heated threads on here. I am a strong person with strong opinions and yet you do not see me on here literally picking fights with other members that I don't agree with. There is quite a difference in having a strong opinion and being a bully. I think you take everyone's comment personally and with literal meaning and most of the time that is incorrect.
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Post by maya on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:21 pm

jpresley I agree with you .
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Post by MJonMyMind on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:45 pm

Harleyblonde wrote:
maya wrote:ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!



I was watching this site for several months and i am losing the patient. People research MJ life and go through his privacy witch I don't approve.
In the meaning time we are missing the main point of his hoax.He said in the move "This is the moment" "This is the time"
For what? What happened on 6/24/09. What was sign that day? Why was important for us, our freedom? Was it true what was told to us. Did we lost our freedom that day?Was that day begening of sefdestruction. Wake up!
MJ did not hoax his death for the stupid reasons. It takes a lot of guts to do it, but he did for us. Researching surcomstances surraunding his death we will unfold the truth.He can not do by himself, he needs help (listen to "CRY")

Sorry but I have a difference of opinion here. You say we are missing the point of the hoax, so you claim to know? that is very enlightening as none of us on here know the point of the hoax. In actual fact we have all reached the sensible conclusion that the only ones who will know the point and reason for sure is Michael and the few that are in on the hoax. I do however agree with you that his personal life should not concern us and should not be debated and should be kept private.
Yes I do agree MJ did not hoax his death for stupid reasons, you would have to be clinically insane and half brain dead not to know that but to say he did it for us is a statement that cannot be justified. He gave the public 45 years of his life and he has children to consider. Please do not assume that he owes us anything and I think right now he may be suffering knowing that the world is mourning his death but I believe after the court case and having been exploited by many people and used as a money making machine he will have felt pretty disillusioned by the world and human nature. I know I would. The things he had to suffer would make the hardest of hearts suffer but he was a sweet sensitive soul who was far too good in nature to be surrounded by parasites.
You say "researching circumstances surrounding his death we will unfold the truth, he can not do it himself, he needs help". For a start he is not dead-no death-get it? we have been researching for 4 months and we have no guarantee we will in fact unfold the truth, if MJ doesn't want us to know then we will never know-we can guess and speculate but we do not know and maybe never will. And as for "he cant do it himself, he needs help" Help with what? You cannot claim to know for sure as none of us do.
Yes ENOUGH IS ENOUGH is a very good title and I bet this is what Michael thought many many times , in times of despair and thoughts like this were probably a great contributing factor on him doing the hoax. I don't think he did it for us-he gave us more than enough, I don't expect any more from him and nor should anyone else. I hope he is at peace now and not worrying about things he fought for for many many years. The world is still bad, wars are still killing people, children are still starving and dying of disease in the 3rd world, people are still getting murdered, raped and robbed. For all his effort he couldn't change the world-no one can and it must have sickened him. Let him have peace and do not expect any more.

Thankyou very much..I know you speak for most on here...Well done HarleyBlonde

I agree we shouldnt be going into MJs private life because yes thats personal

but having said that..I do belive MJ in his own way has asked us his fans for

help, and duty calls !!!! Ill be There ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_sunny
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Post by amy on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:47 pm

am i missed evrything can somee summriez it to me plz
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Post by MJonMyMind on Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:01 pm

amy wrote:am i missed evrything can somee summriez it to me plz


Amy..... take a seat mate you might be here for a while lol lol lol

Its called a difference of opinion by members!!!


best you read the posts~~ ( thats if you dare ha!!) OH MY

Lets remember why we are here everyone!! Its about L.O.V.E

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Icon_sunny SMILE!!!!
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Post by hAZZELY on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:19 am

I'm sorry but I will just lock this topic.
It's out of place
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