Revealed: Michael Jackson may have been dead for three hours before emergency call was made

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/showbiz-news/2009/08/31/revealed-michael-jackson-may-have-been-dead-for-three-hours-before-emergency-call-was-made-86908-21637102/





Aug 31 2009


By Andrew Gregory



MICHAEL JACKSON may have died three hours before anyone called paramedics.
And experts probing the King of Pop's death believe he was moved back to his own bedroom after his heart stopped beating.
The revelation comes days after it was confirmed that the star was a victim of homicide.
A coroner has ruled that a huge overdose of hospital-strength anaesthetic Propofol sparked Jackson's cardiac arrest.
Sedatives and anti-anxiety drugs were also discovered in his body.
Experts now believe Jackson may have died in his rented mansion at 9am on June 25.
The 911 call wasn't received until 12.22pm.
Dr Steven Hoefflin, who is helping the star's family investigate his death, spoke to emergency crews involved in Jackson's case.
He
confirmed: "They say he had lividity, which means blood had already
sunk to the back of his body. This indicates Michael's heart had
stopped hours earlier."
Experts at the coroner's office
believe Jackson's body was moved after they discovered disruptions in
the pattern of settled blood.
Ex-FBI agent Ted Gunderson, who
has monitored the case, said the evidence pointed to a "massive
cover-up" by Jackson's physician Dr Conrad Murray.

and from The Mirror (I know I now...but ... )
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/31/jacko-dead-three-hours-before-call-115875-21636876/

Star's corpse moved to 'fool' cops


Michael
Jackson's fatal heart attack was kept secret for three hours in a bid
to coverup the real cause of his death, it was claimed yesterday.
It
is also believed the King of Pop's dead body was then moved to his
bedroom so police would think he killed himself with a fatal dose of
the drug Propofol.
The coroner has ruled Jackson was a victim
of homicide after the strong sedative caused his cardiac arrest. And
police are investigating whether his private doctor Conrad Murray is to
blame for the death.
Dr Steven Hoefflin, a friend of the
singer, revealed the latest twist after speaking to medics involved in
Jackson's case. He confirmed: "They say he had lividity, which means
his blood had already sunk to the back of his body.
"This indicates Michael's heart had stopped hours earlier."
Experts
at the coroner's office also reportedly believe Jackson was moved after
his heart attack as they discovered disruptions in the pattern of
"livor mortis" on his body.
Purple marks show where blood has
settled in a lifeless body, which usually takes at least five hours to
become apparent. Forensic pathologist Dr Cyril Wecht, not involved in
the Jackson case, said: "If someone carried the body from one room to
another, the livor would be 'broken' where contact with the body was
made."If one person held his ankles and the other held him under his
arms, there would be corresponding white interruptions of livor mortis
in those spots."
Retired FBI special agent Ted Gunderson, who
has independently monitored the case, said the new evidence pointed to
a "massive cover-up" by Murray.
He asked: "Did Murray try to
fool people into thinking Jackson died on the way to hospital in the
hope an autopsy could be avoided? If so, it didn't work, which is why
he had to confess to administering Propofol." Murray, 56, denies
mistreating Jackson.
He admitted dosing him with the anaesthetic to help him sleep but has said he did nothing wrong.
Sources
said his legal team fear he is being made the scapegoat and insist
Jackson himself was responsible for the drugs in his body.
It
is thought Murray will claim that Jackson killed himself with an
accidental overdose by tampering with the machine controlling his drip,
which was set to 25milligrams.

idk what to think anymore - there are too many reports coming out about Michael's 'death' - it's almost as if every trashy magz and news agency are in a competition or something which led to contradicting each other in the process..

I guess this could be looked in 2 ways - if this is a hoax then annienotok's theory fits in perfectly where Murray discovers 'MJ' lying unconscious adn was forced to take the wrap instead of Arnold Klein. Or if this is not a hoax then it's not surprising that this kind of claim (that Michael killed himself by tampering with the IV drip adn whatnot) could be used in Murray's defense bcoz if the doctor is not responsible, who else could be blamed for the death other than the one who died who obviously cannot defend himself, right?

~If "Lividity" had already Set-In and all of Michael's Blood had sunk to the lower half of his body (Because the Heart is no longer circulating it through the Body) then~~Michael already being as pale and light-skinned as he is~~Would have been even whiter~~and paler~~

~But we have all seen the supposed Ambulance photo~~if that was really Michael in that photo~~It shows that his skin complection was about 3-5 shades darker than he Normally is~

~When Blood has left the area that area becomes WHITE~


~Not Cocoa Brown~

~Michael Is Alive~

wow DreamChild- great observation! & the vain in the forhead, dont forget the vain!

IWSICS wrote:wow DreamChild- great observation! & the vain in the forhead, dont forget the vain!

And dont forget the bloodtube in the ambulance

MJFOREVER wrote:

IWSICS wrote:wow DreamChild- great observation! & the vain in the forhead, dont forget the vain!

And dont forget the bloodtube in the ambulance

ah, of course! not to mention the CPR on the freakin' shoulder, and the breathing tube thing (sorry, not too good with medical stuffs! ) is hanging out of mike's mouth! ahhh.. it's getting good AGAIN!

~I have looked very closely at this supposed Ambulance photo and I have noticed that he had the plastic oxygen tubing that they insert into a person's nose~~There would be no need for this if Michael were unconcious and were NOT BREATHING to begin with~

~Remember~The report originally stated :

1.) "Dr." Murray "found" Michael with very slow,faint Heartbeat and very shallow breathing. (Which STILL sounds to me like the same description of someone who is sound asleep)

2.) The story changed to "Dr." Murray "found" Michael not breathing at all



~There would have been no "Insisting" on going to the Hospital if Michael were already dead and if it were indisputable and irrefutable that he was in Fact dead then the Coroner would have come to Michael's House~

~Strangely I also find it Odd that recent reports state that the Police wanted to talk to "Dr." Murray at the Hospital but that he "Left against their objections"~


~Since when does ANYone leave when the Police want to question them??~

~If You or I were to try that~~~What would happen?~

There would have been no "Insisting" on going to the Hospital if Michael were already dead and if it were indisputable and irrefutable that he was in Fact dead then the Coroner would have come to Michael's House

sorry for correcting you but for what i know(well my mother said it )is that only a real doctor can say youre dead, so the ambulance guys could say like his dead and there is nothing what we can do but murray i higher(in doctor stuff) then those ambulance brothers. So if murray said to then you cant stop then the wont do it.
Hope you understand where im going with this, if not tell me please??

That's what my mother told me, no she's not a nurse so i dont know if it is 100% true but thats what she knows

~Well I may stand Corrected then,Thankyou!~

DreamChild wrote:~I have looked very closely at this supposed Ambulance photo and I have noticed that he had the plastic oxygen tubing that they insert into a person's nose~~There would be no need for this if Michael were unconcious and were NOT BREATHING to begin with~

~Remember~The report originally stated :

1.) "Dr." Murray "found" Michael with very slow,faint Heartbeat and very shallow breathing. (Which STILL sounds to me like the same description of someone who is sound asleep)

2.) The story changed to "Dr." Murray "found" Michael not breathing at all



~There would have been no "Insisting" on going to the Hospital if Michael were already dead and if it were indisputable and irrefutable that he was in Fact dead then the Coroner would have come to Michael's House~

~Strangely I also find it Odd that recent reports state that the Police wanted to talk to "Dr." Murray at the Hospital but that he "Left against their objections"~


~Since when does ANYone leave when the Police want to question them??~

~If You or I were to try that~~~What would happen?~

I agree with all that you said above.
The stroy changes almost every other day.

And if we tried to leave when the police wanted to question us, we would be arrested on the spot if we continued to try and leave.

Also, I thought they said he immediately disappeared for 3 hours. Then they also report that he was missing for days.
Just crazy, I tell ya.

And isn't it weird that they used ANNIE's WORD. We just read this on Friday and Saturday and hear these same exact words are printed in their articles.
I believe someone is using this site to place pieces into their stories...
Ha! WAY TO GO ANNIE and many others who come with other finsing and thories! ;-)

:(If this is true.But why would they countinue to work on a dead man at the hospital. Also, according to Murray's lawyer (I think) wasnt it Murray who suggested autopsy to the family?

MJJ Love wrote:

DreamChild wrote:~I have looked very closely at this supposed Ambulance photo and I have noticed that he had the plastic oxygen tubing that they insert into a person's nose~~There would be no need for this if Michael were unconcious and were NOT BREATHING to begin with~

~Remember~The report originally stated :

1.) "Dr." Murray "found" Michael with very slow,faint Heartbeat and very shallow breathing. (Which STILL sounds to me like the same description of someone who is sound asleep)

2.) The story changed to "Dr." Murray "found" Michael not breathing at all



~There would have been no "Insisting" on going to the Hospital if Michael were already dead and if it were indisputable and irrefutable that he was in Fact dead then the Coroner would have come to Michael's House~

~Strangely I also find it Odd that recent reports state that the Police wanted to talk to "Dr." Murray at the Hospital but that he "Left against their objections"~


~Since when does ANYone leave when the Police want to question them??~

~If You or I were to try that~~~What would happen?~

I agree with all that you said above.
The stroy changes almost every other day.

And if we tried to leave when the police wanted to question us, we would be arrested on the spot if we continued to try and leave.

Also, I thought they said he immediately disappeared for 3 hours. Then they also report that he was missing for days.
Just crazy, I tell ya.

And isn't it weird that they used ANNIE's WORD. We just read this on Friday and Saturday and hear these same exact words are printed in their articles.
I believe someone is using this site to place pieces into their stories...
Ha! WAY TO GO ANNIE and many others who come with other finsing and thories! ;-)

What words of Annies are they using? I missed it!!

hehe you know whats funny? that the paramedics did CPR on a dead body...where I suppose a paramedic is well trained to recognize when a person is dead, especially a person been dead for 3 hours! yes, he would have already turned pale...
CPR is unlikely to restart the heart, but rather its purpose is to maintain a flow of oxygenated blood to the brain and the heart, thereby delaying tissue death and extending the brief window of opportunity for a successful resuscitation without permanent brain damage. So if the purpose of CPR is to mantain the bloodstream oxygenated and prevent brain damage, you think someone would prevent brain damage after the man had been dead for 3 friggin hours? come on, these ppl better get their stories straight.

mjthelegendlives wrote:hehe you know whats funny? that the paramedics did CPR on a dead body...where I suppose a paramedic is well trained to recognize when a person is dead, especially a person been dead for 3 hours! yes, he would have already turned pale...
CPR is unlikely to restart the heart, but rather its purpose is to maintain a flow of oxygenated blood to the brain and the heart, thereby delaying tissue death and extending the brief window of opportunity for a successful resuscitation without permanent brain damage. So if the purpose of CPR is to mantain the bloodstream oxygenated and prevent brain damage, you think someone would prevent brain damage after the man had been dead for 3 friggin hours? come on, these ppl better get their stories straight.

Exactly Excellent point.

.

Excellent post Grace.Man I tell you these people must think we are so stupid.

Revealed: Michael Jackson may have been dead for three hours before emergency call was made

keyword being MAY.

2ndly, if he had been dead for hours, and they think he was murdered and then moved, WHY did it take them +2 months to rule his death a homicide?

OH, another keyword here is: tabloid.

Next.....

I don't know how things work in CA but I would think that if lividity had already happened that the EMT's could have called someone from their local jurisdiction to over rule Murray's insistance on taking him to UCLA and instead had the medical examiner come to the house to pronounce him. Another question, which everyone has and we haven't had an answer to, is why would a doctor, nevermind the EMT's, work on a body at all that already has lividity?

Makes no sense to me.

ballongiraf wrote:

Revealed: Michael Jackson may have been dead for three hours before emergency call was made

keyword being MAY.

2ndly, if he had been dead for hours, and they think he was murdered and then moved, WHY did it take them +2 months to rule his death a homicide?

OH, another keyword here is: tabloid.

Next.....

lol good point

Grace wrote:Don't fall for these stories - this is pure ENTERTAINMENT...

Indeed, Grace. And the fact that the "story" can't even report the correct supposed coroner findings is a glaring warning sign all by itself.

Michael allegedly died of acute Propofol intoxication, which is a huge difference from an "overdose." They're two entirely separate things.

Yah i read that story before its bullshit the guy in the ambulance was clearly alive, unless the picture is an old picture or fake and why the fck would they try to bring him back if he was dead that long

~This Entire Thing Revolves around This :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuFMiGz0mgM

He confirmed: "They say he had lividity, which means blood had already
sunk to the back of his body. This indicates Michael's heart had
stopped hours earlier."

I'll have to go back and find it, but I checked on lividity as in terms of determining time of death and what I read said that coroners do use this as a timetable, but we were told the time of death couldn't be determined. So which is it?

Seriously these ppl need to research before the spew their crap or at the very least consult this site so they can get the story straight.

nlb wrote:He confirmed: "They say he had lividity, which means blood had already
sunk to the back of his body. This indicates Michael's heart had
stopped hours earlier."

I'll have to go back and find it, but I checked on lividity as in terms of determining time of death and what I read said that coroners do use this as a timetable, but we were told the time of death couldn't be determined. So which is it?

Seriously these ppl need to research before the spew their crap or at the very least consult this site so they can get the story straight.

~Shy Smile~




~Exactly!~

DreamChild wrote:~Propofol Is An Anesthetic~

~NOT a "Sleeping Aid"~

~Someone I am am close with had to have Major Surgery and the Doctor gave him Propofol for the Surgery~~When he "Came To" afterwards he said that he did not even know where he was~~He was extremely weak and Groggy and slightly Nauseated~

~This is the Normal effects of Propofol in the normal setting~

~This is the effect of Propofol~~Period~

~This is not what Michael Looks like in the very last Rehearsal Photos~

True

funny thing how DJ AM's autopsy is finished and the cause of death has already been released..he died Friday or saturday? WTF?

but yet they cant seem to figure out the same fucking thing on MJ?

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:funny thing how DJ AM's autopsy is finished and the cause of death has already been released..he died Friday or saturday? WTF?

but yet they cant seem to figure out the same fucking thing on MJ?

Funny you say that because I just made that EXACT statement to my best friend last night when I read that!

This whole thing is a circus. They are telling lies to cover up their lies....its spinning out of control and everyone is trying to cover their asses, but in the midst of it all, theyre making an even bigger mess.

Mj is probably freaking out, or he may be very satisfied with how this is all going down. The fact that media cant seem to tell the truth....

~We will never get the "Results" on anything about Michael~

~Not Real~Genuine ones,anyway~

~Because Michael Is Alive!~


~OUR Michael is,anyway!~

.

What makes this all so funny is, it isn't a simple matter of people seeing things differently.

It is actually a matter of opposing reports which imo means that each story cancels out the other rendering BOTH stories FALSE.

IMO the golden strand is the fact that the conflict in stories was introduced by a friend of Michael's which imo is a big CLUE.

This friend of Michael's is a plastic surgeon and like so many others associated with Michael, came randomly out of the woodwork, but instead of claiming something random and irrelevant like the kids' paternity, this doctor friend of Michael's is someone who is "helping Katherine Jackson with the investigation" which = another CLUE imo.

Another part of the CLUE imo is the fact that some (unnamed) "EXPERT" from the coroner's office "supposedly" said that it appeared that the body had been moved to the doctor's room.

Here is a list of assorted/sorted out, in my opinion FACTS that clearly outline certain points we can disregard in all this confusion.

Please, anyone, feel free to refute them as facts as you see fit, then hopefully all we will be left with are FACTS.

I'll start off with ..

FACT:
If the body had levity, NO experienced EMTs worked on it at the house - that did not happen.

They would have contacted the coroner's office immediately.

(some say, well the doctor on the scene had "rank" and "insisted")

FACT:
Even with Murray's "rank" as a doctor, he was not the EMT's employer, and due to that FACT, they, in the interest of their jobs would have:

1) proceeded with their standard protocol and reported their findings immediately

or

2) contacted THEIR ACTUAL superior authority to report the attending physician's refusal to allow a coroner to be called to the house even if it meant having a follow up visit by their authorities

I'm citing it as fact that this didn't occor since this information (of them contacting their superiors) was not among the many "reports" from EMTs, or the L.A.F.D. Chief as he was bragging about how experienced and expertly his staff handled the situation.

(I know it seems like a presumption but to me it is not, it is a FACT because in an interview I had seen on youtube which I do not have time to locate atm, he outlined "everything" his staff did according to procedure)
an excerpt from the article above: (bolding is mine)

Dr Steven Hoefflin, a friend of the
singer, revealed the latest twist after speaking to medics involved in
Jackson's case. He confirmed: "They say he had lividity, which means
his blood had already sunk to the back of his body.
"This indicates Michael's heart had stopped hours earlier."
Experts
at the coroner's office also reportedly believe Jackson was moved after
his heart attack as they discovered disruptions in the pattern of
"livor mortis" on his body.

Notice THE SOURCE of this "finding" is a friend of MJ's and came out of the woodwork and "reported" what he was "told" by an EMT which likely means he was not "told" anything by anyone. Notice this conflicting story has not be debated or reported in the mainstream press.

The fact that Hoeflin is reportedly working with Katherine Jackson to investigate the case is something else that I consider to be a clue.

It means to me that we are not to believe any of what had been reported at all.

As a former examiner of accidents, one rule of thumb is, whenever there are conflicting stories, it is a "wash out". Neither is to be believed as true.
In the case of representing the company, my job was to default in favor of the person's story who was paying my salary.

In this case, each FACT cancels out the other. IMO it is PROOF enough that this "death" did not happen.

CASE CLOSED

You can read about Livor Mortis here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis

Didn't they say at first that the paramedics were there for about 40 min?

So the paramedics stayed at his house for 40 min and not only they couldn't figure out who the patient was but also didn't realise that he had been dead for hours? otherwise why were they doing CPR and all?

And now a friend of MJ's has to ask them for them to say he had lividity?

Are these people form Mars or what?

illusionist wrote:You can read about Livor Mortis here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis

and I would like to highlight a point from that article (thanks for posting!)

The presence of livor mortis is an indication of when it would be irrelevant to begin CPR or when it is ineffective to continue it if it is in progress.

More proof that no experienced EMTs OR hospital staff did any of such thing.

lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies

Red Velvet wrote:As a former examiner of accidents, one rule of thumb is, whenever there are conflicting stories, it is a "wash out". Neither is to be believed as true.
In the case of representing the company, my job was to default in favor of the person's story who was paying my salary.

In this case, each FACT cancels out the other. IMO it is PROOF enough that this "death" did not happen.

CASE CLOSED

I like your reasoning!

Red Velvet wrote:What makes this all so funny is, it isn't a simple matter of people seeing things differently.

It is actually a matter of opposing reports which imo means that each story cancels out the other rendering BOTH stories FALSE.

IMO the golden strand is the fact that the conflict in stories was introduced by a friend of Michael's which imo is a big CLUE.

This friend of Michael's is a plastic surgeon and like so many others associated with Michael, came randomly out of the woodwork, but instead of claiming something random and irrelevant like the kids' paternity, this doctor friend of Michael's is someone who is "helping Katherine Jackson with the investigation" which = another CLUE imo.

Another part of the CLUE imo is the fact that some (unnamed) "EXPERT" from the coroner's office "supposedly" said that it appeared that the body had been moved to the doctor's room.

Here is a list of assorted/sorted out, in my opinion FACTS that clearly outline certain points we can disregard in all this confusion.

Please, anyone, feel free to refute them as facts as you see fit, then hopefully all we will be left with are FACTS.

I'll start off with ..

FACT:
If the body had levity, NO experienced EMTs worked on it at the house - that did not happen.

They would have contacted the coroner's office immediately.

(some say, well the doctor on the scene had "rank" and "insisted")

FACT:
Even with Murray's "rank" as a doctor, he was not the EMT's employer, and due to that FACT, they, in the interest of their jobs would have:

1) proceeded with their standard protocol and reported their findings immediately

or

2) contacted THEIR ACTUAL superior authority to report the attending physician's refusal to allow a coroner to be called to the house even if it meant having a follow up visit by their authorities

I'm citing it as fact that this didn't occor since this information (of them contacting their superiors) was not among the many "reports" from EMTs, or the L.A.F.D. Chief as he was bragging about how experienced and expertly his staff handled the situation.

(I know it seems like a presumption but to me it is not, it is a FACT because in an interview I had seen on youtube which I do not have time to locate atm, he outlined "everything" his staff did according to procedure)
an excerpt from the article above: (bolding is mine)

Dr Steven Hoefflin, a friend of the
singer, revealed the latest twist after speaking to medics involved in
Jackson's case. He confirmed: "They say he had lividity, which means
his blood had already sunk to the back of his body.
"This indicates Michael's heart had stopped hours earlier."
Experts
at the coroner's office also reportedly believe Jackson was moved after
his heart attack as they discovered disruptions in the pattern of
"livor mortis" on his body.

Notice THE SOURCE of this "finding" is a friend of MJ's and came out of the woodwork and "reported" what he was "told" by an EMT which likely means he was not "told" anything by anyone. Notice this conflicting story has not be debated or reported in the mainstream press.

The fact that Hoeflin is reportedly working with Katherine Jackson to investigate the case is something else that I consider to be a clue.

It means to me that we are not to believe any of what had been reported at all.

As a former examiner of accidents, one rule of thumb is, whenever there are conflicting stories, it is a "wash out". Neither is to be believed as true.
In the case of representing the company, my job was to default in favor of the person's story who was paying my salary.

In this case, each FACT cancels out the other. IMO it is PROOF enough that this "death" did not happen.

CASE CLOSED

Im glad you concluded this because the media has given us so many stories of "that day" that no one can make heads or tails of what supposedly happened. I would have NEVER even thoguht about what you just stated...so THANK YOU!!

I have seen livor mortis on bodies a zillion times. All you gotta do is turn someone onto their side and look at their back. YOU CANNOT MISS IT. Any paramedic would have called the coroner. This is BS.

Im glad you concluded this because the media has given us so many stories of "that day" that no one can make heads or tails of what supposedly happened. I would have NEVER even thoguht about what you just stated...so THANK YOU!!

YW!!

illusionistMon Sep 14, 2009 3:03 pm BS WOOO HOOOO and thanks for that experienced confirmation!

By Andrew Gregory
The Mirror

MICHAEL JACKSON may have died three hours before anyone called paramedics.
And experts probing the King of Pop's death believe he was moved back to his own bedroom after his heart stopped beating.
The revelation comes days after it was confirmed that the star was a victim of homicide.
Michael Jackson's fatal heart attack was kept secret for three hours in a bid
to coverup the real cause of his death, it was claimed yesterday.
It is also believed the King of Pop's dead body was then moved to his
bedroom so police would think he killed himself with a fatal dose of
the drug Propofol.


Dr Steven Hoefflin, who is helping the star's family investigate his death, spoke to emergency crews involved in Jackson's case.
He
confirmed: "They say he had lividity, which means blood had already
sunk to the back of his body. This indicates Michael's heart had
stopped hours earlier."
Dr Steven Hoefflin, a friend of the
singer, revealed the latest twist after speaking to medics involved in
Jackson's case. He confirmed: "They say he had lividity, which means
his blood had already sunk to the back of his body.
"This indicates Michael's heart had stopped hours earlier."

Experts at the coroner's office
believe Jackson's body was moved after they discovered disruptions in
the pattern of settled blood.
Experts at the coroner's office also reportedly believe Jackson was moved after
his heart attack as they discovered disruptions in the pattern of
"livor mortis" on his body.

Ex-FBI agent Ted Gunderson, who
has monitored the case, said the evidence pointed to a "massive
cover-up" by Jackson's physician Dr Conrad Murray.
Retired FBI special agent Ted Gunderson, who
has independently monitored the case, said the new evidence pointed to
a "massive cover-up" by Murray.


These are not two separate articles. They are one and the same - rewritten. This is how you copy an article from the Internet and try to make it your own writing. Don't buy any of it.

mommy wrote:By Andrew Gregory
[color=red]The Mirror

Kind of Ironic isnt it? The Mirror? lol