Re: the atmosphere here....

by shirley-grace Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:53 am

With every day passing, my faith is growing stronger

by MJFoReVeRandAlways Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:54 pm

Well, I am one of those who was a bit thrown of the chair after the funeral. I said that I´d give it a few more days. But now I´ve changed my mind, I really DON´T SEE how he could be dead, therefore I have no other choice but to believe that he is still with us. I am not a believer of a movie or come back theory, I think there´s a bigger reason for this.

Can´t say that it´s unnoticeable that there are fewer and fewer really interesting posts. And I thought to my self yesterday that it´s a spooky feeling around here, very empty. I don´t know where everyone is, but I know that in the beginning there were a lot of original members around here, most of the time. Now some have left, others are reluctant to share their theories and some are just angry and frustrated at the situation. Personally I don´t think it´s weird that people are losing hope, it´s been like 2½ months. Maybe some of those who don´t believe anymore were just a period-believers, meaning that after some time they don´t see any proof (in their eyes that is) and they accept it.

I know I´m going to be here as long as I feel that this place keeps my hopes up and I understand that for now the situation is what it is becuase it´s the first time we are actually faced with doubts. That´s also why I don´t think it´s good to determine a time or event that he 100% will be back or something outstanding will happen. We KNOW that is quite impossible and still we give ourselves false hope. I love annies theory becuase it´s based on facts.

And I totally agree with APOM about the weird angel pictures with the 1958-2009. It´s one thing to have wings on Micheal, becuase he IS angelic, but the other part is very ....interesting. But I didn´t want to say anything becuase I don´t want to add fuel to what´s going on around here, "jumping" on people. Besides it´s not important to me, becuase I stay focused on the reason why I´m here.

I´m sorry if anyone get´s offended by what I wrote but as someone said, we all have rights to express ourselves.

by GirlSaturday Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:09 pm

"That´s also why I don´t think it´s good to determine a time or event that he 100% will be back or something outstanding will happen. We KNOW that is quite impossible and still we give ourselves false hope."

Well said!

We may believe that MJ faked his death and has pulled a hoax. However, everything surrounding the belief is sheer speculation and shrouded by mysterious clue after mysterious clue. Setting dates and events can only deepen the sadness when XYZ date passes or ABC event does not take place. For example, I just knew that something was going to occur on August 29th. I knew it I knew it. You could not have told me otherwise. Hell I even lost a $5 bet. It's not much money but I don't like to lose bets. The day came and went with me feeling quite down and empty over it. Why? I set MYSELF up.

Based on the Vienna tribute news, things are going to get real slow real fast. Our job should be just to roll with it until a real clue comes along.

As stated in an earlier post, I will try to not sweat the small stuff regarding the hoax. If it is be... MJ revealing himself and returning... then it will be.

by MJFoReVeRandAlways Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:14 pm

GirlSaturday wrote:
Our job should be just to roll with it until a real clue comes along.

As stated in an earlier post, I will try to not sweat the small stuff regarding the hoax. If it is be... MJ revealing himself and returning... then it will be.

EXACTLY what I was trying to get across.

by neverlandprincess Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:32 pm

I just joined this site after the burial,because that is how I found it (Me an my mom googled the question "can I 70 day old corpse have an open casket). I had toyed with the idea that he was alive and then think to myself 'nah". Now obviousley I have joined very late in the game by technical information standards-I have no theories that have not already been posted. This is discouraging sometimes because I view the threads and I think some stuff is really cool but it seems everyone has kind of gone cold on what htey have already reviewed. I am in agreement with some on here,it is a day to day thing. I cant accpet fully that he is dead because then it drives me crazy all the things that dont add up-if he is dead then it is a serious case of foul play that is being covered up. If he is not dead then Praise God but only God knows if we will ever see him again. If he is hoaxing I hope it is for a concrete serious reason,otherwise he will be crucified as a crazy narcissistic demi-god ,the very thing they have been trying to make him out to be for a while now. I just couldnt see that happen-I would forgive him and believe whatever reason he gave,then again if he is faking it it-would he come back? It is one of those things...you dont wanna say that maybe it will be a long time from now,because a long time from now you yourself may have changed your mind and quit looking. It is really something that this man has such a hold on our lives is'nt it-I wonder if he REALLY knew how much his fans thought of him. the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Icon_sad

by nlb Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:34 pm

Thanks Balloon for starting this thread. IMO, it makes us stop and think what we really feel and what our next personal steps maybe. I was atually thinking about this before I went to sleep last night.

First of all, I'll admit that there were days that I spent more time in the 18+ thread than investigating the hoax. Like someone else posted about the Gold Pants thread, the naughty thread didn't have fighting nor where people putting down others. It was also a nice place to unwind with the people I got to know here. Now saying all that, I do understand and respect your opinions on the fact that is not what this site was created for. Honestly, I can find that type of thing on a fan website. I can totally see how that distracts from what we signed up here for.

I have noticed that at times that when things are posted people are attacked for their opinions. To be honest, that has made me think twice before posting in certain topics. When I disagree with someone elses opinion, I have always tried to do it in a respectful manner. A good debate can lead to discovering new things, but that is NOT what we have been seeing for quite awhile. Honestly, that's one of the reasons I signed up here, because even if you disagreed, it was done with respect and no one was made to look stupid.

I believe 100% that Michael is out there somewhere, just waiting until the perfect time to make his return. Where and when I don't know. I believe that there are clues out there and I also am convinced that TMZ is in on it somehow.

Lastly, it makes me sad that APOM said she has theories and things, but won't post them because of how the board has been. She is one of the most intelligent people (and we have quite a few) on here and I love to read her posts. There are several others as well that have been absent from posting and now Rach has left as well. I may not contribute theories like the others, but there are people here that make me think outside the box and expand my point of view. I hope that it comes back around to being like that again.

by Bitten Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:59 pm

Ilprincipe, I'm stealing your believe-line. the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Icon_razz

Dead --------Confused ----Me --Alive.

I'm not 100 % sure he's alive, but there is way too many wrong and crazy things going on.
I'll be very surprised if he really is dead.
I'm not a hardcore-fan. I was very much in love with him when I was younger. Listened to his music many hours a day and translated and analyzed his songs. Member of fanclub and day dreaming about him all day long.
My obsession with him died out. I never stopped admiring him and defending him (under the childmolestion trials) Grrrrrr! the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Icon_evil

Things people could say and still do..
Sorry, sent it a little to fast. I'm seeing him again now with my younger eyes the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Icon_biggrin

.. He is amazing! That I never forgot! But I'm still able to be objective about this.
But yes, I believe!

by Fountain In Paradise Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:08 pm

I'm a little late, but I still do believe in the hoax. After the "funeral" on the 3rd I started to really feel hopeless. Since then I haven't been on this forum or MJHD as much, not even just to read, because I'm feeling emotionally drained. But I still believe. There are too many inconsistencies and other weird things going on for me to just give in and say he's gone. Gone from us for the time being, yes, but NOT gone from this world. I will never say 1958-2009

by cirque333 Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:18 pm

He better be alive or else I have completely gone crazy! Michael you are my love forever!!! the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Herz

I think we are getting nervous about how we are SEEING clues. I hope you are still with us.

by CantStopLovingU Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:18 pm

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:Here's how I feel. I LOVE the investigation. I love the fact that he IS ALIVE somewhere. I love trying to figure things out.

But the fact is, for me....Im tired. It seems that even with ALL the flippin research and discoveries we've made...we've gotten no where. We still dont know WTF is going on. Its getting pointless sometimes....we all thought that he may have popped up by now....but I think the "burial" was kind of a finality for alot of people. We're running out of clues ya know?

Im still gonna come here, even thoguh I was giving up 10 mins ago...I just dont know what to think anymore. Is he coming back? Is he not coming back?

Its NOT KNOWING that is draining me. If we knew he wasnt coming back and we had hard facts of this, then I would give it up and accept it...MJ "died" for reasons we'll never know... BUT nothing adds up, SO for me he IS ALIVE and MAY come back....but when? It could be 10 yrs from now. It could be tomorrow...who knows....

It just gets to be alot sometimes.

You guys are all super cool chicks and I will keep coming here, but I dont know how I'll feel from one day to the next....

Jacksonologist you took the words right out of my mouth.

Since some of us have been investigating the hoax from as far back as the Memorial, I agree with you ... I am weary ... very weary.

It is not funeral that changed anything for me .. Im fact, I dont see how ANYONE could believe in a hoax and not expect to see a burial. Death Hoax is not something that is done just so the person can pop up in 2 months and say YOO HOO!

A Death is supposed to LOOK, FEEL and SIMULATE a REAL DEATH ... which INCLUDES a burial.

Lets use Farrah for an example. What if her reported death was a hoax? No disrespect to Farrah I loved her and cried when i got the news about her passing, but using her as an example, what if her documentary was all part of a hoax? I mean that is what it looks like when someone passes away, they get buried.

So it wasnt the burial that has altered my level a attention here at all, it's just that I am weary. I do believe that Michael is still with us - We have a list of clues miles long now, including the anamoly analysis that Tiger Eye is working on ...

What is hard for me personally is .. Will Michael come back at all?

If Michael does not return or delays his return for a year or two at some point we will have no other choice but to wait. There will be no more clues.

If Michael never returns, then to me it will be as if he really did pass, and never knowing for absolute sure will be very hard. Because the people who dont look at a hoax, or who believe he is gone have already gone through their grieving process and started to heal from it. We dont have that luxury.

I actually do have a new contact for us to reach out to, but I will post on another thread.

I love all of you !!

by darkfeather Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:19 pm

It's almost like a religion believing he is alive. Can't really prove it until he reveals himself, some days it's harder to believe and then the other days seems a lot brighter. It's all about faith, not always easy to do.

by beverleyflossy Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:26 pm

i honestly dont know what to think now, there are good days and there are bad days, but somehow the good always seems to conquer the bad, all we can do is to have hope that all of this will come to the conclusion that we all so desperately want

by EarthAngel90 Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:28 pm

cirque333 wrote:He better be alive or else I have completely gone crazy! Michael you are my love forever!!! I think we are getting nervous about how we are SEEING clues. I hope you are still with us.

Ditto to that ....!!!

by jade jackson Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:04 pm

I will definitely be checking in here this weekend, so I hope things are back on track. We need to stay focused....even if we don't have new clues, we can still throw ideas around, or elaborate on older threads. We shouldn't give up just because things are slow, or let everything disintegrate into personal stuff. The site is about the likelihood that Michael Jackson hoaxed his death, not about how we feel about each other. If everyone would just be nice and show each other respect, even when we don't agree, that would help a lot.

by Human_nature Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:12 pm

Wherever. Whatever. Have a nice day."

by Harleyblonde Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:23 pm

Dont give up believing-you have to keep the faith. what springs to my mind is that Michael will not come back as he was and it wont be for a good while but we all have to stay in touch and stay very vigilant.
Here is what I think (for today anyway as so many things have gone on in my head as am sure you are all going through all the different thoughts and emotions) He is used to fame and adulation-ever since he will remember from being knee high to a milk bottle he has had people loving him and bending over backwards to make him comfortable, yes probably because they were well paid but even if they were false people as many people are and lick the boots of celebrities because they are rich, famous and celebrity status the fact is he has never known any normal life, never had to do the dishes,cook,clean, etc. Well in my mind unless more people are in on the hoax than we think he will probably have to live a life he has never known. There were so many people looking after his every need and he is not used to a normal life.There will now be not many around him,in fact very few.
In my mind sooner or later he will have to emerge and start maybe hiring people and being just a little bit to what he is used to. I dont think it would be easy to go from the kind of life he had to the life of a rich recluse with no-one to admire him/take care of him as so many did. I dont mean this in a bad way as he never knew a "normal" life as we do. He will want to be noted at something else, maybe writing, films,music etc or maybe films, directing etc.
I think we need to in the next couple of years look for anyone new on the scene in every aspect of film/music production etc and LOOK REALLY CLOSE, we know the way his eyes light up,his cheeky smile and the way he moves, we have to watch for any sign no matter how improbable. What do you guys think?

by Harleyblonde Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:30 pm

I also meant to say that we just want a closure to this, we need answers. We do not want to annoy/pester or cajole Michael if he had had enough and needed to opt out but we need to know he isn't dead, we need to know he is ok and most of all if this is all a hoax we want him to be happy and live in peace in what he knew was a bad world. He tried to heal it-even God cant do that.

by marsheliamorgan Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:38 pm

ok,you asked so here it comes the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Lol

i FIRMLY believe michael is alive and this whole death was/is a hoax!!!!! i dont know why it was done,and you know i dont really care i am sure michael has/had his reasons,and someday,(i am praying soon)we will know one way or the other,there is NO way all this crazy stuff would be going on if he were truly dead,i dont feel ANYONE on here should have to justify there feelings on why we believe,but,i dont understand,if people DONT believe than WHY ARE THEY ON HERE ANYWAY,i truly dont mean to be rude but,thats a head scratcher. i dont feel as if we are hurting ANYONE most of all,michael,cause IMO if michael didnt want us to know there WOULDNT be all these clues out there,and now after seeing the TNZ myspace,and knowing how many people really didnt believe he was INNOCENT of those charges,i think he had to do something SO THE TRUTH WOULD COME OUT,and have u noticed that since his "death" the first "boy" came out and ADMITTED HE LIED,that his father cohersed him into lying (for money)and ALL THE INSIDE TRUTH came out regarding the ACTUAL trial NOT JUST MEDIA BULLSHIT,THE HONEST TRUTH and unfortunatly i dont believe for one minute HAD HE NOT faked this death,THE TRUTH WOULD BE OUT THERE.it would still be hanging over him i never thought he was guilty and now this is just ONE example of being right,SO I AM WITH YOU GUYS,MICHAEL IS ALIVE AND WELL and we just gotta keep the faith,and keep diggin,its gonna get good and the TRUTH ALWAYS COMES OUT !!!!!!!!

by marsheliamorgan Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:42 pm

It's why I try to find new things, or any "evidence". And it's why I'm here.

GREAT point H.N. and this is a really good site for that,and you are great with your clue busting,you had me convinced you believed 100% how funny is that?LOL
anyway,i am glad you are here and putting your thoughts,and things on here,that has helped ME alot and i know alot of others too,i like reading everyones different opinions,and suggestions,ideas,THIS IS A GREAT MELTING POT,dontcha think?

by pumpkin Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:49 pm

I don't see myself ever being convinced Michael is dead the way things stand right now.

Michael was SO savvy when it came to media hype, was a GREAT businessman, had SO many contacts and was SUCH a lover of life.

The reasoning that he succumbed to some questionable doctor because he had one too many injections after decades of abuse, just doesn't sit well.

I just find that so hard to believe.

However I have to say that if addiction to drugs is the truth (which we may never truly know) I would feel disapppointed in him somewhat that he let go so easily without consideration for his children, but if he was that far gone on drug abuse, he maybe had not much reasoning left.

So I don't like to go down that road and it keeps me reasonably sane to believe he is alive, although I don't believe he will come back as Michael Jackson as he was, part of me thinks this is illness related, not money related.

by Harleyblonde Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:51 pm

Definately a great melting pot-two heads are better than one and over five hundred are even better. I keep thinking somehow in the back of my mind that there will be really simple clues we are missing. There is a saying that one cannot see the wood for the trees!! Very apt as there are moving trees at Michaels funeral. Walls have ears and Los Angeles trees have legs!

the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Lol

by pumpkin Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:52 pm

Look outside the box the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Icon_flower

by Guest Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:55 pm

marsheliamorgan wrote: ok,you asked so here it comes i FIRMLY believe michael is alive and this whole death was/is a hoax!!!!! i dont know why it was done,and you know i dont really care i am sure michael has/had his reasons,and someday,(i am praying soon)we will know one way or the other,there is NO way all this crazy stuff would be going on if he were truly dead,i dont feel ANYONE on here should have to justify there feelings on why we believe,but,i dont understand,if people DONT believe than WHY ARE THEY ON HERE ANYWAY,i truly dont mean to be rude but,thats a head scratcher. i dont feel as if we are hurting ANYONE most of all,michael,cause IMO if michael didnt want us to know there WOULDNT be all these clues out there,and now after seeing the TNZ myspace,and knowing how many people really didnt believe he was INNOCENT of those charges,i think he had to do something SO THE TRUTH WOULD COME OUT,and have u noticed that since his "death" the first "boy" came out and ADMITTED HE LIED,that his father cohersed him into lying (for money)and ALL THE INSIDE TRUTH came out regarding the ACTUAL trial NOT JUST MEDIA BULLSHIT,THE HONEST TRUTH and unfortunatly i dont believe for one minute HAD HE NOT faked this death,THE TRUTH WOULD BE OUT THERE.it would still be hanging over him i never thought he was guilty and now this is just ONE example of being right,SO I AM WITH YOU GUYS,MICHAEL IS ALIVE AND WELL and we just gotta keep the faith,and keep diggin,its gonna get good and the TRUTH ALWAYS COMES OUT !!!!!!!!

We are NOT hurting anybody, so whoever said that, is BS. Im sorry but that is true. Im not in here to hurt anybody, im in here because I cant let him go. Somethings are just not adding up, if they did, i wouldent have the question, is he really dead. But I do.
I know, that Michael did what he had to do, to keep himself safe, and get his life back on track. There is nothring woring with that, the sad thing is that I dont think he had any other choise but to do this. Even though, I know It would break his heart. Michael would never hurt anybody, and though he was vindicated from the trial, he was still destroyed. Unfortiently. Sad

I feel so bad for him, to watch him like that broke my heart.

Im sure he needed to rest, and find some peace finally. Lord knows that he deserve it.

by marsheliamorgan Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:56 pm

ok, maybe i owe some people on here an apology,i just read the opening question and didnt read any further,SORRY,my bad,i didnt really get thru all of it,as i am have my grandson here today and everytime i turn around,its i wanna see mikkkkkkkkkke(no kiddin and he's only 2 and a half)i guess its my fault for playing all his dvd's and music,the boy is addicted,kinda like his shema, the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Lol

anyhow,back to the topic,i didnt know anything on here was or is happening and people were being made to feel bad i guess i am blessed as i havent had anything other than good experiences on here,i do agree tho,we are all entitled to our opinions and shouldnt feel bad or upset when others dont agree with us,or just see it differently. maybe it is the fact that some things have slowed alittle with clues and such,but,couldnt that mean that things will be gearing up for something bigger?lets try to be positive and go with the flow,and think as if when and IF michael is ready to comeback or let the fans and public know,when the time is right (FOR HIM)and all the situations he was dealing with that called for something this drastic are correct and inline he will come forward and let us know,we should be thankful that he has given these clues and thats what it has to be i feel,because otherwise,why doesnt anything else add up?

by Human_nature Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:57 pm

Wherever. Whatever. Have a nice day."

by Guest Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:58 pm

pumpkin wrote:I don't see myself ever being convinced Michael is dead the way things stand right now.

Michael was SO savvy when it came to media hype, was a GREAT businessman, had SO many contacts and was SUCH a lover of life.

The reasoning that he succumbed to some questionable doctor because he had one too many injections after decades of abuse, just doesn't sit well.

I just find that so hard to believe.

However I have to say that if addiction to drugs is the truth (which we may never truly know) I would feel disapppointed in him somewhat that he let go so easily without consideration for his children, but if he was that far gone on drug abuse, he maybe had not much reasoning left.

So I don't like to go down that road and it keeps me reasonably sane to believe he is alive, although I don't believe he will come back as Michael Jackson as he was, part of me thinks this is illness related, not money related.

Im sorry for saying this, and im not trying to be rude, but, noone has any right to be dissapointet in him. Look what the hell he went through. I dont belive the shitty drugs story either, but would you blame him? I would not.
Michael was not sick, I dont belive that.

Just my opinion.. Sorry if this offended you, that was not my intend

by Guest Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:03 pm

Harleyblonde wrote:I also meant to say that we just want a closure to this, we need answers. We do not want to annoy/pester or cajole Michael if he had had enough and needed to opt out but we need to know he isn't dead, we need to know he is ok and most of all if this is all a hoax we want him to be happy and live in peace in what he knew was a bad world. He tried to heal it-even God cant do that.

I agree with both of your posts... I will never fully recover from this los. Im not done griving yet, Im not sure I ever will be. Michael is so much more, than just a great singer to me.

by pumpkin Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:10 pm

It's OK I am not offended at all, but I do have the right to be disappointed in him if that is what happened. I know fully about Michael's life and what he had to put up with and he is/was only human but when you have responsibilities with children the whole ball game changes.

No-one knows if he was sick or not, or whether he was on drugs or not, none of us actually know that much, we can none of us say with certainty what happened only God and Michael know that.

by neverlandprincess Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:20 pm

pumpkin wrote:I don't see myself ever being convinced Michael is dead the way things stand right now.

Michael was SO savvy when it came to media hype, was a GREAT businessman, had SO many contacts and was SUCH a lover of life.

The reasoning that he succumbed to some questionable doctor because he had one too many injections after decades of abuse, just doesn't sit well.

I just find that so hard to believe.

However I have to say that if addiction to drugs is the truth (which we may never truly know) I would feel disapppointed in him somewhat that he let go so easily without consideration for his children, but if he was that far gone on drug abuse, he maybe had not much reasoning left.

So I don't like to go down that road and it keeps me reasonably sane to believe he is alive, although I don't believe he will come back as Michael Jackson as he was, part of me thinks this is illness related, not money related.

It does not sit well with me either-I mean it does not fit with everything he represented. I think the drug part is media hype though-I mean look all the drugs listed in his system are the same drugs my grandfather were on when he was sick later in life-and mainly it was due to depression and stress because my grandmother had died. I dont look at that list of sedatives and say "wow Michael was an addict"...I just dont. It does not fit-and through his whole career he talked about how sad it was when an artist dies like that...how it was not gonna be his case and how it made fans feel cheated. He also so loved his children. I don't know,of course many good people who would never do hard illegal drugs succumb to prescription addiction and may not even realize it...and smart people get sad and lost..but with all he had in the planning (The concerts,the music,the Opus book,the movie about foster care) I don't think he would have compromised it so easily. Everyone who was close to him at this time said he was really coming back-personally and professionaly...and so yeah back to square one-none of this fits!! the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Icon_scratch

by Human_nature Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:24 pm

Wherever. Whatever. Have a nice day."

by MiaPaparazzi Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:41 pm

Human_nature wrote:
pumpkin wrote:It's OK I am not offended at all, but I do have the right to be disappointed in him if that is what happened. I know fully about Michael's life and what he had to put up with and he is/was only human but when you have responsibilities with children the whole ball game changes.

No-one knows if he was sick or not, or whether he was on drugs or not, none of us actually know that much, we can none of us say with certainty what happened only God and Michael know that.

First, I want you to know I respect your opinion.

But I just want tell you something important here. About drugs addiction. Sometimes, people will ebcome addict with some legal drugs and when they begin to take those medication, nobody will tell them they can become addict.

I actually take Xanax, and I'm addicted. When my doctor gave me this medication, nobody warned me about the addiction. Now, I need Xanax and it's very hard. I have panic attack, anxiety disorder.
I don't think I'm a bad person because I have some health problems.

I don't think Michael asked for Propofol or things like that. But it's possible he has/had some addictions yes.

We can't judge someone if we never walk in his shoes (this is a proverb).

Peace !

*HUGS TO HN FOR SHARING THIS*
My brother is in the Army and the Army has prescribed him Xanax for ptsd among other things, and its a terrible addiction to beat. Actually ANY addiction is tough to beat. And the sad thing about addiction is you cannot help it, it is bigger than you. You have to have professional help to overcome it but you will never "truly" recover, sad to say "once an addict, always an addict"... I too have traveled down that road, and by the grace of God, I made it out alive. I think a lot of us here are able to relate to MJ in one way or another IF he was in fact an addict. But that does NOT by any means make him any less of a person. Just my 2 cents.

I love you guys, seriously, you all are amazing! xo

by Harleyblonde Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:48 pm

Hi Human Nature, you are not a bad person, you are just very vulnerable and my heart goes out to you. Most people have health problems weather it be phisically or mentally, stress etc. I went through very stressful time a few years ago and I was put onto anti-depressants and thank God there are good Doctors and mine is and no way would he prescribe for for any longer than he thought necessary but not everyone has a good Doctor. God bless you and it will be ok in the end-you have to have faith and maybe help if possible from your family.
I must say though that I cannot get my head round the fact that Michael was addicted to powerful anasthetics that were to put you out so to speak, I find it hard to think a qualified Doctor would administer these drugs when there are so many others that can make a person relaxed enough to sleep/give a feeling of wellbeing etc. I came back from Kenya a few years ago when I had been living there, I had had Maleria (many many die of this terrible disease, is tragic) I was administered quinine in a drip to cure the maleria and was given too much and was very ill-is toxic and very strong. sorry you may think am rambling but my Hubby thought to get me home to the UK ASAP and I took very ill on the plane and when we got to Dubai to chage planes they got me in the clinic for a few hours and I was given a valium injection and I felt really good after it. I really felt so ill I thought I would die and the injection was magic, and when I got back to England was in hospital for 3 weeks but what I am getting at is am sure there were many alternatives that the Docs could have given him so I detect a lot of lying here. I have never heard of anyone been addicted to that kind of medication. By the way I have had valium tablets and felt no different, this injection was the biz. Without this injection my journey home would have been hell. I think this all screams HOAX?LIES!!!

by neverlandprincess Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:51 pm

@miapaparrazzi: kudos! I personally thought they quit prescribing xanax because so many ppl were addicted to it-I am addicte cigerettes and caffeine-I have a highly addictive personality and I am sensitive to drugs so I have tried to be wise and not "experemint" in life.

by GirlSaturday Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:44 pm

Thanks for sharing something so personal as your addiction. Hopefully you will be able to overcome the health problems.

Human_nature wrote:
pumpkin wrote:It's OK I am not offended at all, but I do have the right to be disappointed in him if that is what happened. I know fully about Michael's life and what he had to put up with and he is/was only human but when you have responsibilities with children the whole ball game changes.

No-one knows if he was sick or not, or whether he was on drugs or not, none of us actually know that much, we can none of us say with certainty what happened only God and Michael know that.

First, I want you to know I respect your opinion.

But I just want tell you something important here. About drugs addiction. Sometimes, people will ebcome addict with some legal drugs and when they begin to take those medication, nobody will tell them they can become addict.

I actually take Xanax, and I'm addicted. When my doctor gave me this medication, nobody warned me about the addiction. Now, I need Xanax and it's very hard. I have panic attack, anxiety disorder.
I don't think I'm a bad person because I have some health problems.

I don't think Michael asked for Propofol or things like that. But it's possible he has/had some addictions yes.

We can't judge someone if we never walk in his shoes (this is a proverb).

Peace !

by CantStopLovingU Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:08 pm

Human_nature wrote:
pumpkin wrote:It's OK I am not offended at all, but I do have the right to be disappointed in him if that is what happened. I know fully about Michael's life and what he had to put up with and he is/was only human but when you have responsibilities with children the whole ball game changes.

No-one knows if he was sick or not, or whether he was on drugs or not, none of us actually know that much, we can none of us say with certainty what happened only God and Michael know that.

First, I want you to know I respect your opinion.

But I just want tell you something important here. About drugs addiction. Sometimes, people will ebcome addict with some legal drugs and when they begin to take those medication, nobody will tell them they can become addict.

I actually take Xanax, and I'm addicted. When my doctor gave me this medication, nobody warned me about the addiction. Now, I need Xanax and it's very hard. I have panic attack, anxiety disorder.
I don't think I'm a bad person because I have some health problems.

I don't think Michael asked for Propofol or things like that. But it's possible he has/had some addictions yes.

We can't judge someone if we never walk in his shoes (this is a proverb).

Peace !

I think the important terminology is the difference between dependent and addicted.

There are very good medical reasons to prescribe xanax and other medications. Your body will become physically dependent upon these types of meds, but that does not mean you are an addict.

An addict takes the drugs for a reason other than medical and usually takes amounts way higher than the amount that would be prescribed. A person who has a medical reason to be on a certain drug like Xanax, is physically dependent upon the medication because of the way the body becomes used to receiving it.

Post Tramatic Stress, Panic Attacks are very serious conditions and some people need to be on Xanax or Klonopin to combat their symptoms. Sometimes you have to weigh the pros and cons and make an informed choice. A Panic attack can cause someone to pass out which can put them in danger, and the xanax calms the nerves and controls the panic attacks.

My Mom suffers from very horrible pain and can barely walk a couple of steps. She is on very strong narcotics for her pain - and yes her body is dependent on them but she is by no means a drug addict.

There is a difference.

by jade jackson Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:22 pm

I became addicted to Klonopin after having it prescribed for panic disorder. I came tp be dependent on it. I had to detox from it and it took a year for me to start to feel normal again. I would never take it again. You can die if you stop taking Klonopin or Zanax or any of the benzodiazapines without medical supervision. It is very dangerous to just stop. If Michael were addicted to drugs like they are saying, then I can only hope he is in rehab. I do believe he hoaxed his death, and I think he was probably forced to do it either because he was in danger, or to help the DEA with a sting operation. I do not think he would have let all of this turmoil happen to his children, family, and fans just so he could stage a big comeback. He loves his children very much. So to me, it had to have been a decision he was somehow forced to make. On the plus side, he could have made a comeback, a movie, etc, part of his deal with the DEA. Personally, I think all of this started after just after the trial. Also, did anyone see that the dentist who drugged Jordy Chandler is one of the ones listed as bad doctors who prescribed for Michael. Not sure where I read that, but I did read it, maybe on here.

by Banessa Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:53 pm

Please, Everyone, I do mean this in a nice way and no disrespect intended. Although the drugs topic is interesting, this is not the thread for it. Please, lets try to stick to the original topic.

But feel free to start a new thread on the topic! I think is interesting and if you give it it's own thread it might get more noticed giving more people the opportunity to share in it as well. Thank You!!!

As far as this topic. I too agree 100% with every single word APOM and Ballon stated in their post. I feel that a lot of the investigation has been shoved to the back. It seems as if no one is interested in following the investigation at all. But are more conformed to just believing what the media says!

In my case I feel tired and sad. I can't stand the posts stating Michael is "dead" or the ones stating that after the "burial" you are now convinced he is gone forever! I don't mean any disrespect to anyone and I don't intent to hurt anyone either. But in my case I can say that the posts that bother me the most are not the troll's but the ones of those who believed from the beginning (did the work) and no longer believe. By all means if this is your decision I respect and applaud you for it and in a way I even envy you, for being able to finally have the closure you wanted and now have.... and I still don't.

After all that we have been through and all the information we have gathered, am I seriously, going to let a very well obvious "staged" burial convince me Michael is "dead"? My answer is NO!!! It really gets to me to have to go through threads of people crying they no longer believe MJ is alive. I respect your opinions. I really do, but I find these posts to be a black cloud over the forum.

Some people are very emotional and these kind of posts are dampening the atmosphere. They seriously put some people on a bad or sad mood. I enjoy coming to the forum, I love all the analytical and creative thinking that has gone into the various theories. I love the people here. I have met great people here that I can honestly call friends. And it really saddens me that many feel they have to leave or have already made a decision to do so.

I really think that the only thing that is going to get us through this is having respect for each other. Not more not less but mutual RESPECT!

Please, don't try to convinced people of something you have already been convinced of, don't jump on people for having different opinions, just move on. We can get along and have a peaceful and friendly atmosphere if we all COOPERATE with each other. We can and we need to get back to work!!! I'm sure Michael left clues for his fans to know he is alive...IMO everything since June 25 has been a Huge clue of that! And the only way we are going to get the answers and closure we need is by looking for them and working them out. If we let the media spoon feed us we are never going to know the Truth. And we might as well sit and mourn MJ and be surprised like the rest of the world when he returns! I rather be able to one day say "I believed and I was there from the beginning I didn't let the media or anyone influence my way of thinking and the way I saw things, I kept believing, and stayed 'till the end."

I was taught to listen, see and feel with my heart....and each beat my heart plays tells me Michael is ALIVE! But this is my heart...You need to listen to yours and follow it. Whatever Your choice and your decision is it will be respected by everyone. Smile

Again, this is just my thought/opinion on how I see things. Love ya, all!! Smile

by hungry Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:20 pm

I too was taught to follow and listen to my heart, and my heart says that Michael's death was no innocent overdose/cardiac arrest. I know in my heart that no matter what the truth will be exposed, whether it;s today, tomorrow or a year from now, and I will be waiting for that truth. In the words of Dr. Tohme R. Tohme, "The truth about everything will come out".
I know that this truth is much bigger than what is being said now.
I agree, the atmosphere of the forum has changed - A LOT. Ever since the burial, people have been leaving, writing goodbye posts and saying, "I have a closure. He is gone". But I refuse to believe it. A dead body was made up for a funeral where the casket was closed the whole time. WHAT????? And why display pictures of the deceased from 20 years ago at the furneral? This does not make sense to me, and as long as there is no explanation for all my questions I will continue to ask more.
Yes, some days I lose faith - a lot of the time I cry for hours, praying to God, asking why. It's the longest roller coaster I've ever been on, but despite this I do not plan to get off. It will all be worth it, when we find the truth.

Banessa wrote:

I rather be able to one day say "I believed and I was there from the
beginning I didn't let the media or anyone influence my way of thinking and the
way I saw things, I kept believing, and stayed 'till the end."

It's going to be a wonderful, wonderful day when we can finally say that - and out loud, too - to everyone. I can just imagine it: It's a great day, I'm in the car with my father, listening to my iPod, and the radio says, "BREAKING NEWS: Michael Jackson is alive! Death is a hoax." I would scream of joy and break into nonstop tears, while running out onto the street to say "I KNEW HE WAS ALIVE! I KNEW IT!"
Of course, there is always that chance that maybe he really did die and that I'm doing all of this for nothing. To this I have no answer, because I do not know the truth.
But it will prevail.

by Guest Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:33 pm

MJ is alive im totally convinced of that!!!! he had his reasons for doing what hes done....He needed rest cause he was tired....Unless I back up a thread 100%
then its no use running around like a chicken with its head cut off, putting ideas up that could be totally wrong. ..Infact I
posted part of my theory some time ago now and Im sure when MJs good and ready and not before, hes going to make the most unbelivable GRAND return.
Then all I can say is THE WORLD IS GOING TO BE SHOCKED AND AMAZED!!!

But for people like us we will know..YOU know why?
Because we never gave up beliveing in him!!!

WE Kept the Faith Always!!!! MJ you do what you need to do and dont rush!!
I wish you well and be safe always!!

by Guest Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:52 pm

OMG!!! Hot! xox

OOps sorry guys..Wrong ..That was ment to be about MJs Video
Moonwalker... the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Icon_redface

by Banessa Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:04 pm

hungry wrote:I too was taught to follow and listen to my heart, and my heart says that Michael's death was no innocent overdose/cardiac arrest. I know in my heart that no matter what the truth will be exposed, whether it;s today, tomorrow or a year from now, and I will be waiting for that truth. In the words of Dr. Tohme R. Tohme, "The truth about everything will come out".
I know that this truth is much bigger than what is being said now.
I agree, the atmosphere of the forum has changed - A LOT. Ever since the burial, people have been leaving, writing goodbye posts and saying, "I have a closure. He is gone". But I refuse to believe it. A dead body was made up for a funeral where the casket was closed the whole time. WHAT????? And why display pictures of the deceased from 20 years ago at the furneral? This does not make sense to me, and as long as there is no explanation for all my questions I will continue to ask more.
Yes, some days I lose faith - a lot of the time I cry for hours, praying to God, asking why. It's the longest roller coaster I've ever been on, but despite this I do not plan to get off. It will all be worth it, when we find the truth.

Banessa wrote:

I rather be able to one day say "I believed and I was there from the
beginning I didn't let the media or anyone influence my way of thinking and the
way I saw things, I kept believing, and stayed 'till the end."
It's going to be a wonderful, wonderful day when we can finally say that - and out loud, too - to everyone. I can just imagine it: It's a great day, I'm in the car with my father, listening to my iPod, and the radio says, "BREAKING NEWS: Michael Jackson is alive! Death is a hoax." I would scream of joy and break into nonstop tears, while running out onto the street to say "I KNEW HE WAS ALIVE! I KNEW IT!"
Of course, there is always that chance that maybe he really did die and that I'm doing all of this for nothing. To this I have no answer, because I do not know the truth.
But it will prevail.

LMAO That is too funny! I can picture you running out on the street Screaming! Hahaha! Well put it this way you won't be the only one! I now I will do the same and I will cry until my eyes have no more tears! lol

@ Pinkshots I agree there is a lot of evidence supporting our belief. I also agree that he had to have his reason for doing it, reasons which only he knows. It's his life and he knows what is best for him. I also agree that when he decides to come back he will do so in a way that only he can! A grandiose return fit for the King. Smile

In the mean time, you are right there is no need to go around, running like headless chicken, because we don't know how our actions may affect the rest of the forum. After all we are here because we believe he is alive and we want to know he is okay! Smile

by hungry Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:17 pm

Banessa wrote:
hungry wrote:I too was taught to follow and listen to my heart, and my heart says that Michael's death was no innocent overdose/cardiac arrest. I know in my heart that no matter what the truth will be exposed, whether it;s today, tomorrow or a year from now, and I will be waiting for that truth. In the words of Dr. Tohme R. Tohme, "The truth about everything will come out".
I know that this truth is much bigger than what is being said now.
I agree, the atmosphere of the forum has changed - A LOT. Ever since the burial, people have been leaving, writing goodbye posts and saying, "I have a closure. He is gone". But I refuse to believe it. A dead body was made up for a funeral where the casket was closed the whole time. WHAT????? And why display pictures of the deceased from 20 years ago at the furneral? This does not make sense to me, and as long as there is no explanation for all my questions I will continue to ask more.
Yes, some days I lose faith - a lot of the time I cry for hours, praying to God, asking why. It's the longest roller coaster I've ever been on, but despite this I do not plan to get off. It will all be worth it, when we find the truth.

Banessa wrote:

I rather be able to one day say "I believed and I was there from the
beginning I didn't let the media or anyone influence my way of thinking and the
way I saw things, I kept believing, and stayed 'till the end."
It's going to be a wonderful, wonderful day when we can finally say that - and out loud, too - to everyone. I can just imagine it: It's a great day, I'm in the car with my father, listening to my iPod, and the radio says, "BREAKING NEWS: Michael Jackson is alive! Death is a hoax." I would scream of joy and break into nonstop tears, while running out onto the street to say "I KNEW HE WAS ALIVE! I KNEW IT!"
Of course, there is always that chance that maybe he really did die and that I'm doing all of this for nothing. To this I have no answer, because I do not know the truth.
But it will prevail.

LMAO That is too funny! I can picture you running out on the street Screaming! Hahaha! Well put it this way you won't be the only one! I now I will do the same and I will cry until my eyes have no more tears! lol

@ Pinkshots I agree there is a lot of evidence supporting our belief. I also agree that he had to have his reason for doing it, reasons which only he knows. It's his life and he knows what is best for him. I also agree that when he decides to come back he will do so in a way that only he can! A grandiose return fit for the King.

In the mean time, you are right there is no need to go around, running like headless chicken, because we don't know how our actions may affect the rest of the forum. After all we are here because we believe he is alive and we want to know he is okay!

Maybe everything seems all gloomy and quiet because Rachel is gone and there is no breaking news on the story. Sad

by Give.In.To.Me Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:26 pm

Banessa wrote:Please, Everyone, I do mean this in a nice way and no disrespect intended. Although the drugs topic is interesting, this is not the thread for it. Please, lets try to stick to the original topic.

But feel free to start a new thread on the topic! I think is interesting and if you give it it's own thread it might get more noticed giving more people the opportunity to share in it as well. Thank You!!!

As far as this topic. I too agree 100% with every single word APOM and Ballon stated in their post. I feel that a lot of the investigation has been shoved to the back. It seems as if no one is interested in following the investigation at all. But are more conformed to just believing what the media says!

In my case I feel tired and sad. I can't stand the posts stating Michael is "dead" or the ones stating that after the "burial" you are now convinced he is gone forever! I don't mean any disrespect to anyone and I don't intent to hurt anyone either. But in my case I can say that the posts that bother me the most are not the troll's but the ones of those who believed from the beginning (did the work) and no longer believe. By all means if this is your decision I respect and applaud you for it and in a way I even envy you, for being able to finally have the closure you wanted and now have.... and I still don't.

After all that we have been through and all the information we have gathered, am I seriously, going to let a very well obvious "staged" burial convince me Michael is "dead"? My answer is NO!!! It really gets to me to have to go through threads of people crying they no longer believe MJ is alive. I respect your opinions. I really do, but I find these posts to be a black cloud over the forum.

Some people are very emotional and these kind of posts are dampening the atmosphere. They seriously put some people on a bad or sad mood. I enjoy coming to the forum, I love all the analytical and creative thinking that has gone into the various theories. I love the people here. I have met great people here that I can honestly call friends. And it really saddens me that many feel they have to leave or have already made a decision to do so.

I really think that the only thing that is going to get us through this is having respect for each other. Not more not less but mutual RESPECT!

Please, don't try to convinced people of something you have already been convinced of, don't jump on people for having different opinions, just move on. We can get along and have a peaceful and friendly atmosphere if we all COOPERATE with each other. We can and we need to get back to work!!! I'm sure Michael left clues for his fans to know he is alive...IMO everything since June 25 has been a Huge clue of that! And the only way we are going to get the answers and closure we need is by looking for them and working them out. If we let the media spoon feed us we are never going to know the Truth. And we might as well sit and mourn MJ and be surprised like the rest of the world when he returns! I rather be able to one day say "I believed and I was there from the beginning I didn't let the media or anyone influence my way of thinking and the way I saw things, I kept believing, and stayed 'till the end."

I was taught to listen, see and feel with my heart....and each beat my heart plays tells me Michael is ALIVE! But this is my heart...You need to listen to yours and follow it. Whatever Your choice and your decision is it will be respected by everyone. Again, this is just my thought/opinion on how I see things. Love ya, all!!

This is one of the most amazing posts ever! I agree with everything you said and I want you to know that I'm with you to the end. When MJ returns I'll be right there with you holding the sign that says "Nice try MJ...but you NEVER fooled us!"

by DreamsComeTrue Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:27 am

About loosing hope....

Some of you said that we haven't done the same work as we did from the begining and that we are too focused on TMZ and so on...
From what we do our research if not from media, photos, videos, interviews, tweets...?

We don't have the clues that we used to have before! Were we supposed to search? You have to consider that this is not very easy to deal with, because is something like US AGAINST THE WORLD! Our source is the one that tell us he is ¨dead¨, I mean Media, family...

Of course we sometimes feel deppresed, and that is because we are human and not robots and we don't know the truth for sure! I agree there are many things that don't add up, but that is not pointing that the hoax is 100% sure!

What we are supposed to do? To reveal the exact time when he will come back? I don't think that we can do that!

We are at the hands of those who ¨accidently¨ leave us a clue or something!

I don't think that after the burial many of the members started to loose hope, but they were disappointed because we weren't given as many clues as we expected!

I believe he's alive, but i'm not 100% sure about that! But still, the proofs are starting to take a form! Anyway, if Michael wants us to have clues and proofs, he will give us when he considers he have to...like he did with the Murray video and the van video!

Anyway, I think we still do research, but the real clues are given to us! So untill we will have another big clue, all we have to analize is LaToya interview, TMZ stories or Jermaine speaches!

This is not easy for any of us! All we can do is respect each other, working together and wait for the next big clue!

I hope I didn't offend anyone, if is so, I apologize! This is just an opinion and my point of view! (and sorry for my english)

God bless you all! And be strong, this is not easy at all!
the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Icon_sunny

by Guest Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:38 am

Banessa Thanks my friend..Trust me im on your wave lenght.

Keep that fighting spirit alive everyone!!

MJ needs us now more than ever..

When the going gets tuff..The tuff get going...

My Motto always...Luv Ya MJ

by CantlivewithoutMJ Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:40 am

ballongiraf wrote:another thing that baffles me is when i see people, who say they believe MJ is alive, having pics of MJ with angel wings, halos and the 1958-2009 written in their signature.

Im sorry, but why put that in your sig if you're convinced he's alive?

Again, not out to offend anyone, just posting a thought...

I thought the same,it makes me very sad.

by DreamsComeTrue Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:46 am

Pinkshots wrote:Banessa Thanks my friend..Trust me im on your wave lenght.

Keep that fighting spirit alive everyone!!

MJ needs us now more than ever..

When the going gets tuff..The tuff get going...

My Motto always...Luv Ya MJ

That should be the message! the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Icon_sunny

by Harleyblonde Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:39 am

I also respect the decisions of those who have been swayed the other way after the "burial" but this was bound to happen. They HAD to have a burial and is good you have reached a decision which gives you a closure to all this and now perhaps you can sleep more soundly but this is what they wanted. They want everyone to believe statements such such as new make up on a 2 month corpse etc etc Utter BS! Everytime they open their mouths they drop us clues like concrete bricks. Michael is (was about to say WAS but IS) the brains ins the family. Jermaine and LaToya were at the back of the queue!!
All the members who are undecided all I have to say is trust your instinct-sometimes first instincts are right and the Jacksons and whoever is involved are fully aware of people/sites such as this, therefore they will do their utter best to convince such as us that there was a "death" This is what they want-dont let them fool you and dont let them win! I stick with my original ideas and nothing will sway me. If they hadn't come out with such ridiculous statements I might be one of the unbelievers!

by rowdyangel Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:53 am

I just want to say that when I was logged on here last night, I felt very sad because it seemed that all had gone very quiet - hardly anybody logged on and no new posts were forthcoming.

However, I just logged on now and BINGO!! Loads of new posts have appeared. This is what we need. We can't give up now - I certainly won't. I know that I haven't contributed anywhere near as much as most other members (busy with work) but I tend to read and absorb and then if something jumps out at me I will go away and do some research.

Come on guys let's keep this up! I can tell you that when I logged on just now and saw all of the new posts, I was ecstatic!!!

Consider this a 'mass virtual kick up the backside' - lol the atmosphere here.... - Page 2 Icon_lol

and I mean that in the nicest possible way. I too promise to contribue more when I find things that I feel are worth publishing on here.

Michael wouldn't want us to give up now, not after all this time.

by Savannah Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:55 am

CantlivewithoutMJ wrote:
ballongiraf wrote:another thing that baffles me is when i see people, who say they believe MJ is alive, having pics of MJ with angel wings, halos and the 1958-2009 written in their signature.

Im sorry, but why put that in your sig if you're convinced he's alive?

Again, not out to offend anyone, just posting a thought...

I thought the same,it makes me very sad.

Hey friends...I just finished reading this thread, and I wanted to apologize if my "signature" has offended anyone. I believe 100% that Michael is alive and would not be spending so much time and effort on this forum to find the truth; otherwise, it would be time that I could be doing other things...or I would be spending my time on a MJ fan site or something. I don't know if you were directing this post to my signature also...I just wanted to explain WHY I chose this picture. If you read my quote under my picture, it refers to Michael being an angel on Earth...not in Heaven. I really believe we are all born innocent, pure, and full of love. Alot of people in this world go off track and forget or choose not to do something with the love that we were born with. Michael never forgot and continues to share his love with the world. I made a post a while ago about all the charities and good things he has done. I was absolutely amazed at all he has done for this world...he did it out of love, and he never let society change his thinking. It is very obvious by just looking at this forum and seeing how many people share the love here...who brought us together??? Michael! He has made a huge impact on this world, and not just from his musical talent. Do I really think Michael is a real angel??? I would say...probably not. But...I do think God chose him to make a difference in this world and made him "special". Anyway, I just wanted to explain that my signature does not come from me thinking that he has passed...but just that he is such a sweet, caring, loving person, and he is an angel in my eyes. If my signature does offend you guys, I can change it...I don't want to, but I don't want to cause hard feelings with my friends. This forum has been through enough these last few days, and I don't want to add to the fire. Love you guys... Laughing

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