Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators
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Who is Cassandra?

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Who is Cassandra? Empty Who is Cassandra?

Post by nlb Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:21 pm

Cassandra reminds me of an actress. I just remembered who it was. I'm looking for a better photo, but this is who I thought of when I saw Cassandra's picture. She was on the tv show Becker, and she was also in the Saw movies.

The bottom pic is of Cassandra.




Who is Cassandra? MV5BNDQzMzA5OTMyOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMjgwNDYz._V1._SX318_SY400_
Shawnee Smith



Cassandra
Who is Cassandra? 0whoisit0


Last edited by nlb on Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Loree Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:23 pm

in the Saw movies??? which one?? where?? Who is Cassandra? Icon_question
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Post by nlb Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:35 pm

Shawnee Smith has been in all the Saw movies to the best of my knowledge. It's been awhile since I've watch them, but Shawnee plays Amanda in the movies.
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Post by Guest Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:38 pm

You know, I thought I saw her somewhere before, but I couldent put a name to it. What does she have to do with Michael?? I hardly believe that there is something romamtic between them. She wouldent blur it out like that if there was. Thats all im saying

This is getting weird?? So her name isent Cassandra Gretchen-Simms??
Because if its not, this women is full of Bogus
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Post by annieisnotokey Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:38 pm

She looks like Shawnee Smith, but I'm not sure is her (pretty much like the O2 guy) lol!

Somebody said on the other forum that the pic belongs to a Brazilian model.

Either way, I'm pretty sure Cassandra is a fake!
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Post by Guest Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:44 pm

The first picture (the one above) Do NOT look like this Cassandra women at the picture below.

Or is it just me?? This is werid.

What does Cassandra look like then?
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Post by Loree Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:48 pm

what?? I'm confuse now, sorry I need some sleep Who is Cassandra? Icon_silent
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Post by hungry Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:49 pm

Loree wrote:what?? I'm confuse now, sorry I need some sleep Who is Cassandra? Icon_silent
What areyou confused about?
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Post by nlb Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:53 pm

Sorry for the confusion, I had the pics to close together I think. The top one is of Shawnee Smith, the bottom one of Cassandra. Cassandra reminded me of Shawnee Smith.

@Annie, IDK who she is either but agreed that she is a fake! Who is Cassandra? Lol
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Post by yaya Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:34 am

they do look similar, but imo they're not the same person Who is Cassandra? Icon_smile
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Post by ilprincipe Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:37 am

yaya wrote:they do look similar, but imo they're not the same person Who is Cassandra? Icon_smile


agreed...


If Cassandra is indeed a part of the hoax...maybe just a try how many ppl believe her...
than it's ok...

Otherwise....f*** her!
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Post by yaya Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:42 am

ilprincipe wrote:
yaya wrote:they do look similar, but imo they're not the same person Who is Cassandra? Icon_smile


agreed...


If Cassandra is indeed a part of the hoax...maybe just a try how many ppl believe her...
than it's ok...

Otherwise....f*** her!

Who is Cassandra? Lol
i still haven't dismissed her yet, simply cuz anything is possible at this point. so who knows!
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Post by ilprincipe Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:47 am

@yaya: everybody is entitled to have her/his own opinion....

but I just never believed her and it's VERY difficult to accept for me that some users
believe her in some ways...
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Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:59 am

I have a reason to believe her. Maybe Im just gullible but wouldnt there be a legal thing going on here? Like if she WAS a fake Im sure the Jacksons know about her and could possibly SUE Derek Clontz for such an outlandish lie? Celebs have sued tabloids before for printing lies....and won.
She has taken time out of her day to sit down and write to us...even on the weekends.

The reason I think she is fake? Well....first of all look at the site she is using and secondly, why would MJ, who HATES tabloids use this one to communicate to us?

Im 50-50 still. She seems so sincere though....this is a tough call
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Post by fa Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:20 am

For me Cassandra is a lie as well as Derek Clontz is a lier.
Why and how would this guy had access to informations before everybody?
He is not famous jornalist trying to have his 15minutes of fame in all this hoax issue.
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Post by emanviam Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:41 am

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:I have a reason to believe her. Maybe Im just gullible but wouldnt there be a legal thing going on here? Like if she WAS a fake Im sure the Jacksons know about her and could possibly SUE Derek Clontz for such an outlandish lie? Celebs have sued tabloids before for printing lies....and won.
She has taken time out of her day to sit down and write to us...even on the weekends.

The reason I think she is fake? Well....first of all look at the site she is using and secondly, why would MJ, who HATES tabloids use this one to communicate to us?

Im 50-50 still. She seems so sincere though....this is a tough call

Ditto.
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Post by Harleyblonde Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:45 am

fa wrote:For me Cassandra is a lie as well as Derek Clontz is a lier.
Why and how would this guy had access to informations before everybody?
He is not famous jornalist trying to have his 15minutes of fame in all this hoax issue.
I agree completely, I think we ought to just ignore all this-surely even asking her questions etc is encouraging people like this. To think that MJ would use a woman like that to give a message to his fans (and even his non fans! as if this was all true the media would have a field day, it would be a lottery win to them!!) is absolutely preposterous-he may as well just pop up on the news and say "Hi fans am here!" he did not go to all the trouble and put his close ones/family to all this hoax to let everyone know in this manner. I think we should completely disregard sick sad people like Cassandra and concentrate on our factual evidence. In my opinion you are all so sad and really long for MJ to BE alive that possibly you are willing to believe the BS and I think she is a sick and sad excuse for a human being to give all you nice and genuine people hope and to take advantage of that. sorry if any offence taken but really............anyone of us could give a message like that but we are not sick in the head.
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Post by SeeingClues Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:54 am

and now on the site they are taking it even further by saying at noon EST they will publish information on a new "global experiment" that MJ has been working on for years..probably that "everyone writes a line of a song" experiment. How long are they going to keep at this?
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Post by hungry Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:37 am

I'm getting more skeptical about this Cassandra by the minute.
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Post by ~Susie~ Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:15 am

What if this Cassandra doesn't exist and it's something this Derek Clontz guy created? Maybe, which I tend to believe more,I'm wrong about it, but do you think this could be possible?
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Post by Dora Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:23 am

Además, responde a él a quien quiere, porque no ha respondido ni uno que me de las preguntas que le hice a él. Tal vez no le gusta mi nombre? jajaja.
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Post by Harleyblonde Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:25 am

~Susie~ wrote:What if this Cassandra doesn't exist and it's something this Derek Clontz guy created? Maybe, which I tend to believe more,I'm wrong about it, but do you think this could be possible?

Yes definately. Good thought. And if this is a woman in her 50s then I am the Queen of Sheba!

Who is Cassandra? Lol
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Post by the king and I Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:33 am

Dora wrote:Además, responde a él a quien quiere, porque no ha respondido ni uno que me de las preguntas que le hice a él. Tal vez no le gusta mi nombre? jajaja.


si tienes razon yo mande 3 veces una pregunta i no me ha contestado
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Post by hungry Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:35 am

Harleyblonde wrote:
~Susie~ wrote:What if this Cassandra doesn't exist and it's something this Derek Clontz guy created? Maybe, which I tend to believe more,I'm wrong about it, but do you think this could be possible?

Yes definately. Good thought. And if this is a woman in her 50s then I am the Queen of Sheba!

Who is Cassandra? Lol
Maybe she has self-esteem issues and she doesn't want to show her current face, so she gave Derek Clontz a picture of her from 20 years ago.
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Post by ~StarLight~UK~ Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:41 am

I don't think Cassandra can exist! It's much too obvious!

But do we know who Derek Clontz is?! Who is Cassandra? Icon_scratch
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Post by hungry Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:43 am

~StarLight~UK~ wrote:I don't think Cassandra can exist! It's much too obvious!

But do we know who Derek Clontz is?! Who is Cassandra? Icon_scratch
I've never even heard of him before Michael "died".
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Post by ~StarLight~UK~ Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:45 am

hungry wrote:
~StarLight~UK~ wrote:I don't think Cassandra can exist! It's much too obvious!

But do we know who Derek Clontz is?! Who is Cassandra? Icon_scratch
I've never even heard of him before Michael "died".

Hmm......convenient!!! Who is Cassandra? Icon_lol
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Post by PepaBCN Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:15 pm

If you search on Google about her, you just find our own doubts in other forums like ours... Weird! When Google finds nothing, that would be because what you search doesn't exist...
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Post by ~StarLight~UK~ Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:27 pm

PepaBCN wrote:If you search on Google about her, you just find our own doubts in other forums like ours... Weird! When Google finds nothing, that would be because what you search doesn't exist...

Yes I did the same google search.....nothing but us!!

I wouldn't be surpried if 'she' suddenly gets a shiny new website with lots of details on!! Who is Cassandra? Icon_razz
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Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:29 pm

hungry wrote:
~StarLight~UK~ wrote:I don't think Cassandra can exist! It's much too obvious!

But do we know who Derek Clontz is?! Who is Cassandra? Icon_scratch
I've never even heard of him before Michael "died".


Maybe this site was set up post 'death" by MJ or someone close to him as a way for MJ to speak to us. Maybe everything we see on his site is BS except for the MJ stuff. MJ always hated the tabloids right? So what better way to connect to his fans then a trashy fake tabloid site? Not alot of peeps would look for anything about MJ on a site like this and believe it soo.....maybe? Did that make sense?
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Post by ~StarLight~UK~ Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:36 pm

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:
hungry wrote:
~StarLight~UK~ wrote:I don't think Cassandra can exist! It's much too obvious!

But do we know who Derek Clontz is?! Who is Cassandra? Icon_scratch
I've never even heard of him before Michael "died".


Maybe this site was set up post 'death" by MJ or someone close to him as a way for MJ to speak to us. Maybe everything we see on his site is BS except for the MJ stuff. MJ always hated the tabloids right? So what better way to connect to his fans then a trashy fake tabloid site? Not alot of peeps would look for anything about MJ on a site like this and believe it soo.....maybe? Did that make sense?

I never thought of it like that! Hidden within the BS there is a bright shiny star! Clever....It makes total sense! Who is Cassandra? Icon_biggrin
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Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:41 pm

~StarLight~UK~ wrote:
THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:
hungry wrote:
~StarLight~UK~ wrote:I don't think Cassandra can exist! It's much too obvious!

But do we know who Derek Clontz is?! Who is Cassandra? Icon_scratch
I've never even heard of him before Michael "died".


Maybe this site was set up post 'death" by MJ or someone close to him as a way for MJ to speak to us. Maybe everything we see on his site is BS except for the MJ stuff. MJ always hated the tabloids right? So what better way to connect to his fans then a trashy fake tabloid site? Not alot of peeps would look for anything about MJ on a site like this and believe it soo.....maybe? Did that make sense?

I never thought of it like that! Hidden within the BS there is a bright shiny star! Clever....It makes total sense! Who is Cassandra? Icon_biggrin


LOL!!! I dont know if thats the case though,, its just a nice theory on a shady website! Who is Cassandra? Lol
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Post by ~StarLight~UK~ Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:01 pm

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:
~StarLight~UK~ wrote:
THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:
hungry wrote:
~StarLight~UK~ wrote:I don't think Cassandra can exist! It's much too obvious!

But do we know who Derek Clontz is?! Who is Cassandra? Icon_scratch
I've never even heard of him before Michael "died".


Maybe this site was set up post 'death" by MJ or someone close to him as a way for MJ to speak to us. Maybe everything we see on his site is BS except for the MJ stuff. MJ always hated the tabloids right? So what better way to connect to his fans then a trashy fake tabloid site? Not alot of peeps would look for anything about MJ on a site like this and believe it soo.....maybe? Did that make sense?

I never thought of it like that! Hidden within the BS there is a bright shiny star! Clever....It makes total sense! Who is Cassandra? Icon_biggrin


LOL!!! I dont know if thats the case though,, its just a nice theory on a shady website! Who is Cassandra? Lol

I'm liking your style though!! It's so obvious...it could be true!! Who is Cassandra? Lol
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Post by Guest Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:08 pm

Grrr, Whoever cassandra is, she is drivin me nuts.

She has answered all letters above mine, and under mine, but not mine, it`s still in moderation lol

I do think the person behind cassandra is real, but I don`t think she is.
I mean, no matter how big a FAKE she was, she would never play with so many peoples hearts and feelings, that would just be the meenest thing ever.

I do believe in her, but I dont believe she is, who she say she is.
mabye it`s mike in disguise Who is Cassandra? Lol

However, she did say something about beeing Michael`s lover.
I almost chocked when she said that lmao.
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Post by ~StarLight~UK~ Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:18 pm

MyBelovedMJ wrote:Grrr, Whoever cassandra is, she is drivin me nuts.

She has answered all letters above mine, and under mine, but not mine, it`s still in moderation lol

I do think the person behind cassandra is real, but I don`t think she is.
I mean, no matter how big a FAKE she was, she would never play with so many peoples hearts and feelings, that would just be the meenest thing ever.

I do believe in her, but I dont believe she is, who she say she is.
mabye it`s mike in disguise Who is Cassandra? Lol

However, she did say something about beeing Michael`s lover.
I almost chocked when she said that lmao.

That's so unfair that you didn't get your letter answered! I never sent one but it would be typical that if I did, that would happen to me too! LOL! Who is Cassandra? Icon_rolleyes

I hope that whoever is doing this has a good reason and yes it would be very mean to play with peoples emotions.

I'm hoping it is Mike in disguise somehow Who is Cassandra? Icon_cool like was said before hidden within the BS! As for Michael's lover.....in 'her' dreams maybe!! LMAO!

Now I just need to figure out Derek......... Who is Cassandra? Lol
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Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:27 pm

MBMJ....write your letter again...but this time in the beginning of it address it to Cassandra and tell her your letter never got answered..then see what happens. She hasnt answered mine either so dont feel TOO bad!! LOL
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Post by Guest Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:28 pm

~StarLight~UK~ wrote:
MyBelovedMJ wrote:Grrr, Whoever cassandra is, she is drivin me nuts.

She has answered all letters above mine, and under mine, but not mine, it`s still in moderation lol

I do think the person behind cassandra is real, but I don`t think she is.
I mean, no matter how big a FAKE she was, she would never play with so many peoples hearts and feelings, that would just be the meenest thing ever.

I do believe in her, but I dont believe she is, who she say she is.
mabye it`s mike in disguise Who is Cassandra? Lol

However, she did say something about beeing Michael`s lover.
I almost chocked when she said that lmao.

That's so unfair that you didn't get your letter answered! I never sent one but it would be typical that if I did, that would happen to me too! LOL! Who is Cassandra? Icon_rolleyes

I hope that whoever is doing this has a good reason and yes it would be very mean to play with peoples emotions.

I'm hoping it is Mike in disguise somehow Who is Cassandra? Icon_cool like was said before hidden within the BS! As for Michael's lover.....in 'her' dreams maybe!! LMAO!

Now I just need to figure out Derek......... Who is Cassandra? Lol


In her dreams lol yeah. She is to old..

Well yeah who the heck is derek??
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Post by hungry Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:29 pm

MyBelovedMJ wrote:
However, she did say something about beeing Michael`s lover.
I almost chocked when she said that lmao.
She didn't say it directly, but I do think she was implying that she and Michael were more than friends. She said, "Michael and I, also, are deeply involved as friends." in one of Derek Clontz's blogs. DEEPLY INVOLVED. I was shocked too, but I guess it's time he found someone.
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Post by Guest Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:29 pm

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:MBMJ....write your letter again...but this time in the beginning of it address it to Cassandra and tell her your letter never got answered..then see what happens. She hasnt answered mine either so dont feel TOO bad!! LOL


Okey I`ll try again.. But she better answer.. cause its really beautiful.. otherwise then I guess I just have to go to Paris lol..
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Post by Guest Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:30 pm

hungry wrote:
MyBelovedMJ wrote:
However, she did say something about beeing Michael`s lover.
I almost chocked when she said that lmao.
She didn't say it directly, but I do think she was implying that she and Michael were more than friends. She said, "Michael and I, also, are deeply involved as friends." in one of Derek Clontz's blogs. DEEPLY INVOLVED. I was shocked too, but I guess it's time he found someone.


ROFL, she is to old.. well Lizz is saying the same thing hehe..

Well im gonna write her my letter one more time.. this time, she better answer haha
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Post by ~StarLight~UK~ Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:33 pm

MyBelovedMJ wrote:
~StarLight~UK~ wrote:
MyBelovedMJ wrote:Grrr, Whoever cassandra is, she is drivin me nuts.

She has answered all letters above mine, and under mine, but not mine, it`s still in moderation lol

I do think the person behind cassandra is real, but I don`t think she is.
I mean, no matter how big a FAKE she was, she would never play with so many peoples hearts and feelings, that would just be the meenest thing ever.

I do believe in her, but I dont believe she is, who she say she is.
mabye it`s mike in disguise Who is Cassandra? Lol

However, she did say something about beeing Michael`s lover.
I almost chocked when she said that lmao.

That's so unfair that you didn't get your letter answered! I never sent one but it would be typical that if I did, that would happen to me too! LOL! Who is Cassandra? Icon_rolleyes

I hope that whoever is doing this has a good reason and yes it would be very mean to play with peoples emotions.

I'm hoping it is Mike in disguise somehow Who is Cassandra? Icon_cool like was said before hidden within the BS! As for Michael's lover.....in 'her' dreams maybe!! LMAO!

Now I just need to figure out Derek......... Who is Cassandra? Lol


In her dreams lol yeah. She is to old..

Well yeah who the heck is derek??

Derek Clontz........it was his website........not sure who he really is!!
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Post by WanaBstartnSthn Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:37 pm

I know for a fact that Derekclontz website existed before Michael "died". I remember seeing his name a couple times on the net....
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Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:42 pm

luvmjalways wrote:I know for a fact that Derekclontz website existed before Michael "died". I remember seeing his name a couple times on the net....


Ok, then let me revise my theory. Derek clontz's website was made PRIOR to MJ's "death" so people like us would think its real!! LOL Who is Cassandra? Lol Who is Cassandra? Lol Who is Cassandra? Lol
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Post by ~StarLight~UK~ Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:55 pm

THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:
luvmjalways wrote:I know for a fact that Derekclontz website existed before Michael "died". I remember seeing his name a couple times on the net....


Ok, then let me revise my theory. Derek clontz's website was made PRIOR to MJ's "death" so people like us would think its real!! LOL Who is Cassandra? Lol Who is Cassandra? Lol Who is Cassandra? Lol

Does anyone know how 'prior' it was?!!! Who is Cassandra? Icon_lol Who is Cassandra? Lol
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Post by Guest Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:57 pm

~StarLight~UK~ wrote:
THE JACKSONOLOGIST wrote:
luvmjalways wrote:I know for a fact that Derekclontz website existed before Michael "died". I remember seeing his name a couple times on the net....


Ok, then let me revise my theory. Derek clontz's website was made PRIOR to MJ's "death" so people like us would think its real!! LOL Who is Cassandra? Lol Who is Cassandra? Lol Who is Cassandra? Lol

Does anyone know how 'prior' it was?!!! Who is Cassandra? Icon_lol Who is Cassandra? Lol



rofl, is this for real Who is Cassandra? Lol Who is Cassandra? Lol Who is Cassandra? Lol
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Post by THE JACKSONOLOGIST Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:00 pm

IDK mbmj....i was jokin around. dereks site seems so trashy for MJ....but maybe thats the exact reason for him to choose this site to speak out. I still dont know if she's for real, but all of MJ's fans know he hated the tabs so what better way to reach out then on a shitty tab website...I think someone else mentioned this too.
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Post by See Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:10 pm

http://voxaleadnews.labs.exalead.com/play.php?flv=CNN_News%2FCNN-News-04-20-09-12AM.mp4&q=%22Timothy%20McVeigh%22&language=all&time=72&C=eJw9yMtygjAYQOH*UVqnDxC0alx6AwRhRFGiG4dCIOESJAEBn75209X55tQw8nlZNWz4cKIL5SkbQQFUgICYJmFbNPBglaANjwBBQcsyfDd8PGTVv6EgDhsK6m8qGoEGKipB0CeVEP*rq1O0BmoNbqaQ3WVLj!mLYnxz6VksWsSOmBHZme6uWAcn301z7fPpGTbJzgi*lj1O0GLKS2NAN*vZetbFuui9dmsOp9xiJt6vZu7w46fIwKjWCa*o!LhxyTTgu007bHrurOsks4ll6sR0Yi4m7Xa7cuRc!87x9ZSm8tq3wTIX0px7!DizgkT5mjEhyTA!7LuVdJq97O53!AXcwWCb
.........
They're calling it intoxication manslaughter a texas many was allegedly driving drunk is charged now in the deaths of four children who drowned when he drove his car into a waterway a fifth child just three years old is missing and feared dead you heard a four day work weeks what about four dates school weeks that's what florida's broward county is considering as a way of cutting costs cassandra gretchen teaches at pompano beach high school which already cramps five days of classes in the four...........



http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&rlz=1G1GGLQ_NLNL330&q=cassandra+g+simms&meta=
Cassandra G. Simms, MD. 6400 Lee Highway. 37421. (423)899-5081

http://www.parkridgemedicalcenter.com/cpm/PhysNewsletter_Fall04.pdf
Cassandra G. Simms, MD, Psychiatry

http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Cassaundra-Simms-MD-6654748D.cfm


6400 Lee Highway
Chattanooga, TN 37421




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Specialties
Psychiatry

Gender
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Education
Education information, including: Medical School attended, years since graduation, and Residency, are all available in the Detailed Report.
Years Since
Graduation
10
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HealthGrades Recognized and Five-Star designations are available in the Detailed Report.
Group Practice
Focus Psychiatric Care
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Licensed in Tennessee
What is Psychiatry?

Psychiatry deals with prevention, assessment, diagnosis, treatment and rehabilitation of mental illness. A psychiatrist diagnoses and treats those with mental and emotional disorders such as schizophrenia, addictions, mood and anxiety disorders, substance-abuse disorders, and sexual and adjustment disorders. After assessment, the psychiatrist can diagnose, treat and manage an illness or problem by medication or various forms of psychotherapy. A psychiatrist is qualified to order diagnostic laboratory tests and to prescribe medications, evaluate and treat psychologic and interpersonal problems, and to intervene with families who are coping with stress, crises and other problems.
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Post by See Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:11 pm

Sorry if my post is confusing but this is what I found on this woman....
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Post by sapatito Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:35 pm

i asked her a question some days ago and i'm waiting for moderation too Mad

i asked her if he would appear again would he be in trouble with the law or does he have a legal support for faking his death?

still no answer but she has time to say he's going to tour again lol!
i don't believe that person , her answers ( if its a she) can be found in any news article ( aka tabloid) in the net.
for example,she says he's in rehab cause he couldn't do 50 concerts but next year he'll do a world tour confused that's a very good rehab clinic.
no one would fake his own death just to go to rehab, if he really had a problem he probably would delay the concerts and deal with it first. he would not hurt his family ,specially his children like this
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