So What Really Went On During These Rehearsals??

So we keep hearing overly dramatic language from AEG/Sony how this film will restore MJ's legacy and show he is a gift from God, show his masterful genius, etc..

Now going under the assumption that this footage was taken without the knowledge that MJ was going to die, or that this would be the last "living" footage of him, does it seem sort of odd that they just happened to capture video that was this earth shattering and emotionally moving? I mean, go with the assumption that this footage was probably never going to be packaged for commercial sale if the concerts were presumably where you would want to film the content that fans would eventually purchase on DVD.

Did they follow him around wherever he went with a camera? And if so, for what purpose? It seems like an odd thing to do for rehearsals. And on top of that, capturing such emotionally impactful footage to boot.

Now the footage we have seen so far; the Human Nature clip and the They Don't Really Care About Us" clip, are OK, but they aren't "earth shattering" emotional masterpieces..

see where I am going with this?

Or even if he is behind the scenes with Ortega looking at screens or setting up the stage...what is going on there to make it so jaw dropping?

So you see where I am going..either it is over the top marketing hype..or there is something to be revealed...

What are your thoughts...?

well, why do you think the Movie will reveal something?
I def want to watch it, but i don't think (just my opinion) it will reveal something big!
But I hope to see the clues there! I am trying to keep an open mind!

I could also be just a publicity thing (as i'm sure it is to some extent) to get people to see it.Back that up with only 2 weeks of rolling, the single coming out 2 weeks before...and there you have your millions !

SeeingClues wrote:So we keep hearing overly dramatic language from AEG/Sony how this film will restore MJ's legacy and show he is a gift from God, show his masterful genius, etc..

Now going under the assumption that this footage was taken without the knowledge that MJ was going to die, or that this would be the last "living" footage of him, does it seem sort of odd that they just happened to capture video that was this earth shattering and emotionally moving? I mean, go with the assumption that this footage was probably never going to be packaged for commercial sale if the concerts were presumably where you would want to film the content that fans would eventually purchase on DVD.

Did they follow him around wherever he went with a camera? And if so, for what purpose? It seems like an odd thing to do for rehearsals. And on top of that, capturing such emotionally impactful footage to boot.

Now the footage we have seen so far; the Human Nature clip and the They Don't Really Care About Us" clip, are OK, but they aren't "earth shattering" emotional masterpieces..

see where I am going with this?

Or even if he is behind the scenes with Ortega looking at screens or setting up the stage...what is going on there to make it so jaw dropping?

So you see where I am going..either it is over the top marketing hype..or there is something to be revealed...

What are your thoughts...?

I do agree that presumably they want us to think they had no knowledge of the imminent death of MJ but IF it was planned and it was a "hoax death" then they will have been aware that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity movie and the last major thing (apart from unreleased tracks etc but are not so major) that they will get from MJ so to make a hellava lotta money from them it would have to be all pre-planned and very special, I think for it to be very special it wouldn't be from just normal footage from rehearsals. How many films are there of artists etc with a footage of rehearsals and behind the scenes to be just added on to some major movie. I think the tours were never to take place, it is all about the supposed "death" and the movie is the ultimate goal and money making acheivement.

~"As You've Never Seen Him Before!"~


~I know that I have never seen him Behind the scenes of his Art~

~I've never even been to one of his Concerts or met him~

~It would have to mean something Special~

~Other than that it would be them "Playing" on Our Emotions knowing how much we Love Michael and Would do anything to "See Him One Last Time"~

~But I keeping having the Question in my Mind :

"When was the last time You ever heard of a Documentary being shown in a Movie Theater?"~

~Michael Loved to have his Performances recorded even his Rehearsals so that he could study them to make them better~

~But that makes it easier to say:

"oh!..Please! He ALWAYS did that!..That's nothing new!"~

~In other words who would Question "Michael The Consummate Perfectionist" for having so much Rehearsal Footage?......NO ONE~


Sometimes to pull off a "Trick" or a "Hoax" You have to do things that "Blend In" with things people would think of as being "Normal" for You to be doing~

~No One would think Twice about Michael Recording the Rehearsals because He recorded always everything to study and perfect his performances~

I am wondering this too!
I mean, they've even said that the ending cannot be revealed.. it is a ''surprise''
Nevertheless, I can't wait:D

They had alot of cameras there

Camera and Electrical Department
Derlin Brynford-Jones	....	technocrane operator: 3D unit
Robin Bursey	....	camera utility: "a" camera, 3D unit
Cary Caraway	....	lead tech: mosys
Andrew Degnan	....	convergence puller: "a" camera, 3D unit
Ric Ellington	....	still photographer: 3D unit/2nd unit
Jamie Felz	....	first assistant camera: "a" camera, 3D unit
Joe Guzman	....	rigging grip
Greg Harrington	....	camera operator
Beck Hoehn	....	second assistant camera: "a" camera, 3D unit
James Jermyn	....	second assistant camera: second unit
Gary Johnson	....	second assistant camera: "b" camera, 3D unit
Patrick Meade Jones	....	camera utility: 2nd unit Phantom camera
Bob Kertesz	....	additional digital imaging technician
Carlos Lopez Calleja	....	first assistant camera: 2nd unit Phantom camera
Kim Marks	....	camera operator: "a" camera, 3D unit/2nd unit DP
Ryan Nguyen	....	additional digital imaging technician
Michael Pagen	....	lead crane tech, 3D unit
Rick Page	....	first assistant camera: "b" camera, 3D unit
Doug Price	....	convergence puller: "b" camera, 3D unit
Paul Sanchez	....	director of photography: 3D unit
Chris Shadley	....	key video assist
Garrett Shannon	....	camera utility: "b" camera, 3D unit
Ryan Sheridan	....	on-set 3D engineering
Chris Squires	....	camera operator: "b" camera, 3D unit/steadicam operator/2nd unit DP
John Stradling	....	first assistant camera: 2nd Unit
Larissa Supplitt	....	second assistant camera: "a" camera, 3D unit
Nick Theodorakis	....	chief digital imaging technician, 3D unit
Patrick Woodroffe	....	lighting designer

Truth_or_Dare wrote:I could also be just a publicity thing (as i'm sure it is to some extent) to get people to see it.Back that up with only 2 weeks of rolling, the single coming out 2 weeks before...and there you have your millions !

Yes...my thoughts exactly-sad really because I don't think they had to go that extent-people would have went to see it anyway.

shirley-grace wrote:They had alot of cameras there

Camera and Electrical Department
Derlin Brynford-Jones	....	technocrane operator: 3D unit
Robin Bursey	....	camera utility: "a" camera, 3D unit
Cary Caraway	....	lead tech: mosys
Andrew Degnan	....	convergence puller: "a" camera, 3D unit
Ric Ellington	....	still photographer: 3D unit/2nd unit
Jamie Felz	....	first assistant camera: "a" camera, 3D unit
Joe Guzman	....	rigging grip
Greg Harrington	....	camera operator
Beck Hoehn	....	second assistant camera: "a" camera, 3D unit
James Jermyn	....	second assistant camera: second unit
Gary Johnson	....	second assistant camera: "b" camera, 3D unit
Patrick Meade Jones	....	camera utility: 2nd unit Phantom camera
Bob Kertesz	....	additional digital imaging technician
Carlos Lopez Calleja	....	first assistant camera: 2nd unit Phantom camera
Kim Marks	....	camera operator: "a" camera, 3D unit/2nd unit DP
Ryan Nguyen	....	additional digital imaging technician
Michael Pagen	....	lead crane tech, 3D unit
Rick Page	....	first assistant camera: "b" camera, 3D unit
Doug Price	....	convergence puller: "b" camera, 3D unit
Paul Sanchez	....	director of photography: 3D unit
Chris Shadley	....	key video assist
Garrett Shannon	....	camera utility: "b" camera, 3D unit
Ryan Sheridan	....	on-set 3D engineering
Chris Squires	....	camera operator: "b" camera, 3D unit/steadicam operator/2nd unit DP
John Stradling	....	first assistant camera: 2nd Unit
Larissa Supplitt	....	second assistant camera: "a" camera, 3D unit
Nick Theodorakis	....	chief digital imaging technician, 3D unit
Patrick Woodroffe	....	lighting designer

Lots of 3D folk in there! Maybe KO was lying and it will be in 3D after all?

rowdyangel wrote:

shirley-grace wrote:They had alot of cameras there

Camera and Electrical Department
Derlin Brynford-Jones	....	technocrane operator: 3D unit
Robin Bursey	....	camera utility: "a" camera, 3D unit
Cary Caraway	....	lead tech: mosys
Andrew Degnan	....	convergence puller: "a" camera, 3D unit
Ric Ellington	....	still photographer: 3D unit/2nd unit
Jamie Felz	....	first assistant camera: "a" camera, 3D unit
Joe Guzman	....	rigging grip
Greg Harrington	....	camera operator
Beck Hoehn	....	second assistant camera: "a" camera, 3D unit
James Jermyn	....	second assistant camera: second unit
Gary Johnson	....	second assistant camera: "b" camera, 3D unit
Patrick Meade Jones	....	camera utility: 2nd unit Phantom camera
Bob Kertesz	....	additional digital imaging technician
Carlos Lopez Calleja	....	first assistant camera: 2nd unit Phantom camera
Kim Marks	....	camera operator: "a" camera, 3D unit/2nd unit DP
Ryan Nguyen	....	additional digital imaging technician
Michael Pagen	....	lead crane tech, 3D unit
Rick Page	....	first assistant camera: "b" camera, 3D unit
Doug Price	....	convergence puller: "b" camera, 3D unit
Paul Sanchez	....	director of photography: 3D unit
Chris Shadley	....	key video assist
Garrett Shannon	....	camera utility: "b" camera, 3D unit
Ryan Sheridan	....	on-set 3D engineering
Chris Squires	....	camera operator: "b" camera, 3D unit/steadicam operator/2nd unit DP
John Stradling	....	first assistant camera: 2nd Unit
Larissa Supplitt	....	second assistant camera: "a" camera, 3D unit
Nick Theodorakis	....	chief digital imaging technician, 3D unit
Patrick Woodroffe	....	lighting designer

Lots of 3D folk in there! Maybe KO was lying and it will be in 3D after all?

In my dreams But I highly doubt that.

they've even said that the ending cannot be revealed.. it is a ''surprise''


OK,by WHY would they say the ending was a SURPRISE,we all know the only ending we know is he supposedly died,how are they going to make that A SURPRISE ENDING?this makes no sense,and yes,i agree,if michael was having rehearsals taped to study,thats ONE thing,however, I HIGHLY doubt there would be THAT many cameras,and using HD film,just for rehearsals,especially if it WASNT intended to be seen by ANYONE other than michael. that logic doesnt fit the whole situation,let me put it this way,lots of pro football coaches,basketball players,etc. have and watch film coverage of their practices,scrimages etc. BUT NOT IN HD,as NO-ONE is watching and studying them OTHER THAN themselves?get where i am going with this?something here just doesnt sit right with me,i dont know,maybe i am kidding myself,and i mite be going nuts,thats a blurrey line,but,i just dont see why he would use HD film and along with this,all the other inconsistences. just my opininon

~Maybe it Will be in something -else-D~


~Maybe the Ending is Michael on the Screen and then ~*~Physically Walking Out Of The Screen?~

~Of Course that could only be Done in one place at a time~

I thought the ending was supposed to show Michael rehearsing his new songs.

And yes, Michael was always documenting everything. So, it's no surprise that they have 100 hours of footage. (Except that some people insist that he hardly ever showed for rehearsals)

~right~



~So Then who is it in the Footage then?~


~giggle!~

IF he walks out at the end and the screen turns from black to white and his silloette emerges people will be running out of the cinemas screaming and crying,i know i would but in total joy,it could happen.IS THIS IT?

the new footage of Mike sat in the rafters chewing gum just said something to me,like he was taking it all in and planning it in his mind,although there would be a dvd out if the concerts went ahead WHY would randy phillips go to his house with a film crew and film him there when he was sat in a car?how would this be used in anything but a film to add a sad ending to it,before he reveals himself like chaplin or houdini at the very end,remember the wink at the end of moonwalker

~In At least a few of Michael's Videos he has Transformed into Something or Someone else...and then back again~

100 hours of film is A LOT if you think about it. Even if 12 songs at an average of 5 minutes apiece were recorded, that is still a single hour. That would be just 1% of the total footage.
They would have to have cameras running continuously..and in HD. Seems silly when you would have potentially plenty of behind the scenes things to film at the O2 and during any of the 50 shows.
What ever happened to the insurance policy AEG had on MJ for non-performance...did they ever cash in on it, or was there a glitch due to the missing paperwork from the physical?

SeeingClues wrote:What ever happened to the insurance policy AEG had on MJ for non-performance...did they ever cash in on it, or was there a glitch due to the missing paperwork from the physical?

As far as I know, it won't be paid out because there was a second physical examination requested by Lloyds scheduled for the last few days of June / first days of July, to be performed in London.

Because for obvious reasons this didn't happen, this insurance was apparently never "active".

As an eternal optimist, it may sound funny to say I also have to be realistic.

So with that said, what I remember is in the beginning they said the concert/s would be out on DVD.

To me, that explains the cameras etc. plus there were going to be 3-D effects....so... yeh

@SeeingClues, to answer your question, I vote for #2.

HYPE. Why?

What is the best way to get someone to go to a movie?

Tell them that they have to see how it ends for themselves.

Tell them there's a surprise.

They could easily severely underestimate MJ's fans by "editing" a "story"/"surprise" in there, which of course, fans would see through like cellophane.

Would they care if MJ's vulnerable fans feel "let down"?

Why would they?

Especially if they are the ones who wanted MJ himself GONE.

JMO

in some days I believe what most of us here do - that the movie will give away a big clue regarding the hoax..but some days like 2day, I feel that the movie as well as Kenny Ortega's 'weird' twitter posts r some of the sly ways to trick us, Micjael's fans into buying the tickets, simlar to MTV's recent stunt with the tribute - they kept us in suspense and turned out to be a major let down in the end..

MJSmile4Us wrote:in some days I believe what most of us here do - that the movie will give away a big clue regarding the hoax..but some days like 2day, I feel that the movie as well as Kenny Ortega's 'weird' twitter posts r some of the sly ways to trick us, Micjael's fans into buying the tickets, simlar to MTV's recent stunt with the tribute - they kept us in suspense and turned out to be a major let down in the end..

I had forgotten about that. That is a very good example. A very good reason for fans to manage their expectations .. just like with "Cassandra' and every other "mind hump" out there. jmo

Red Velvet wrote:

MJSmile4Us wrote:in some days I believe what most of us here do - that the movie will give away a big clue regarding the hoax..but some days like 2day, I feel that the movie as well as Kenny Ortega's 'weird' twitter posts r some of the sly ways to trick us, Micjael's fans into buying the tickets, simlar to MTV's recent stunt with the tribute - they kept us in suspense and turned out to be a major let down in the end..

I had forgotten about that. That is a very good example. A very good reason for fans to manage their expectations .. just like with "Cassandra' and every other "mind hump" out there. jmo

It's embarrassing but I have to admit that I did let my guards down alot in the beginning of the hoax like the coroner's van news which made me upset alot when I later found out it was fabricated..& u r absolutely right - it's important for us to look at what 'clues' are being presented to us with caution instead of jumping to all sorts of conclusions too soon.. i just resent people like Cassandra and RTL who play with the emotions of vulnerable people adn who's to say that Kenny isn't one of them?

and one question that's been bugging me ever since the MTV's tribute is that why did Janet decided to participate in the event when she knew that MTV made a mockery of her brother Michael in the past with the Artist of the Millennium stunt and she surely would have seen the perfomance list and what was going to happen on that night (as we all saw, it was NOT a tribute to Michael at all but an insult him and his music legacy) b4 the show?

I don't feel you or anyone should be embarrassed IMO, because the simple fact is, we believe MJ "hoaxed" his death and if we believe that much, then certainly we are open to proof of that.

That doesn't mean it isn't important to be realistic, use our own powers of reasoning and manage our own expectations for ourselves as we dig for that proof.

Part of managing our expectations IMO is keeping the distinctions clear as these muttled "facts" will allow.

And using deductive reasoning to do so, as much as we have also been using it to try and "figure out" what is going on.

Don't get me wrong, I AM NO LOGIC EXPERT

I keep seeing however, fans continually blending things together that have to be separated apart or sorted out, I'll say.

We have to separate out what belongs where categorically speaking.

In other words, (and I'm going to speak in the assumptive tone just to make the point) for example ..

Just because MJ is not gone does not automatically mean he is hoaxing for a comeback.

Just because MJ is not hoaxing for a comeback does not mean he's not coming back.

Just because he's coming back does not mean this movie is a precurser to it.

Just because this movie is not a precurser does not mean fans won't look for clues and (therefore) find them.

Just because fans look for clues and (therefore) find them does not mean they are from MJ to fans.

Just because MJ loved/s his fans does not mean this movie is being done with them in mind.

I feel that illusionists' points (or at least one point) about 'viral marketing' are very important to take a look at in the "putting it all together" thread.

We are dealing with capitalistic billionaires who want to make money off of the hottest item that has ever lived or "died" and who believe and are probably right, that MJ is worth more NOW, more than ever.

Just because we miss MJ and want him to come back does not mean we have a right as his loyal fans, to forget this fact.

No matter what the motives behind certain things are, the FACT is that WE are their TARGET market.

Another example of, "the bigger the star, the bigger the TARGET" and as Michael Jackson's loyal, "die-hard" (what a pun) fans, we are IT.

If there is so much more to this than meets the eye, I can't think of a better thing to be wrong as dirt about believe U - ME.

I just can't stand seeing fans either being deceived, or deceiving ourselves.

I believe managed expectations can help us keep our sanity whichever which way it goes.

why did Janet decided to participate in the
event when she knew that MTV made a mockery of her brother Michael in
the past with the Artist of the Millennium stunt and she surely would
have seen the perfomance list and what was going to happen on that
night (as we all saw, it was NOT a tribute to Michael at all but an
insult him and his music legacy) b4 the show?

Here again, we have to look behind the potential (true) motives of all the Jackson family IF we believe certain things are REALLY going on.

Fans are very quick (not saying you) to REACT to what we see with our eyes.

THAT IS NOT FOR US imo. How soon we forget certain things. That's why I have to eventually stop posting, (but its so addictive!!!!!!!!!! ) because I know now (I do believe anyway) and its going to hit us all by and by IMO.

Now going under the assumption that this footage
was taken without the knowledge that MJ was going to die, or that this
would be the last "living" footage of him, does it seem sort of odd
that they just happened to capture video that was this earth shattering
and emotionally moving?

That last part is part of the hype - imo needless to say.

I mean, go with the assumption that this
footage was probably never going to be packaged for commercial sale if
the concerts were presumably where you would want to film the content
that fans would eventually purchase on DVD.

Exactly. But just because the concerts were never intended to happen does not mean MJ planned this film. This may be what you're saying but I wanted to reiterate

Red Velvet:

yes I get what u mean and thank u for pointing them out and the thing is Michael has been emphasizing the importance of the ability to see through what the media reports about him as they are mostly a pack of lies and yet so many of his fans (including myself at most difficult times) now believe everything the media feeds them,,,and the reason behind is that we r in a vulnerable state and in non-hoax believers' minds, such videos as what RTL has supposedly fabricated was the last straw, their last glimpse of hope of Michael being found alive..when someone's as desperate and hurt as we r, even the most shady people as Cassandra and Dieter look promising..I couldn't agree with u more about the fact that we are ultimately the target (bait) god knows what kind of tactics they r using to lure us into their traps..

and now that u put it that way, it made me rethink about Janet's participation in the VMA event,,this also makes me think back to what she said after the show that she enjoyed alot performing there..the Jacksons have been in the entertainment industry for decades now and with Michael in particular having been in the spotlight for so long, hoaxing a death would be a piece of cake as they would know the ins and outs of the media and therefore would surely know how to manipulate it to their advantage to make sure it goes according to plan,,,

Harleyblonde wrote:

I do agree that presumably they want us to think they had no knowledge of the imminent death of MJ but IF it was planned and it was a "hoax death" then they will have been aware that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity movie and the last major thing (apart from unreleased tracks etc but are not so major) that they will get from MJ so to make a hellava lotta money from them it would have to be all pre-planned and very special, I think for it to be very special it wouldn't be from just normal footage from rehearsals. How many films are there of artists etc with a footage of rehearsals and behind the scenes to be just added on to some major movie. I think the tours were never to take place, it is all about the supposed "death" and the movie is the ultimate goal and money making acheivement.

this is the way my thoughts are going, too - that the concerts were not happening at all, but at MJ's request. i used to consider sinister forces that have pushed him into hiding, but lately, i've been thinking that if people were really out to get him, he was very easy to keep track of. despite bodyguards, a sniper could easily do the job.

i think he was really in no great physical condition. when he started his History tour, we know how sexy he was in the gold pants, but towards the end of the tour, the pants were obviously not as tight-fitting anymore. he was 38 then, and had a great bod. today, he's 50 and very thin. the concerts would have taken their toll on him. and i think RP and KO, and FdL, too, saw that for themselves, and helped him out. what doesn't fit in, though, is government involvement - unless MJ turned it into a DEA operation. he is not wanting in connections, and has friends in high places both in the USA and abroad.

it's still hazy for me, but i am still convinced he's alive, and doing well. in fact, he is likely to be contributing ideas to the movie. the inclusion of his poem Planet Earth could be his idea. KO and RP, i think, didn't know about the old This Is It song in his vault, and it's unlikely that the brothers or anyone else would think of resurrecting the song. and now it's here. only Michael would know the hundreds of songs in his vault.

Well, call me paranoid (I'll answer ) I just feel things are a bit more complicated. I don't see why its odd for MJ to have contributed to this movie as he was filming rehearsals. He writes hundreds of songs, he's a perfectionist, they taped hours and hours of footage ...

maybe I'm missing something.

I feel this 2 week release is essentially a test market period.

Not too different from the 10 /turned 50 concert dates.

The owner of AEG, OWNS the movie chain.

He is a profit MASTER.

Why [/b]DO you suppose he wanted to PACK all MJ's fans into 1 arena that belongs also to him?

I ignore everything Randy Phillips (CEO of AEG) said about MJ wanting to compete with Prince, get into the Guiness book - all that. Because even if it is/were true - AEG is going to make a KILLING off of MJ's FANS and I believe what they are hoping is this will become residual income for them for a very very long time and they wasted NO TIME with marketing it.

Their AD will draw more people to this movie than anyone could have ever dreamed would pack a concert arena. Fans and non fans alike. But I believe there is a reason they want MJ fans to see it first. I believe its called targeted test marketing.

Their profit plans involve every kind of marketing strategy for the least amount of cost to include the ever so new and evolutionary "social marketing", such as TWITTER and other forms of VIRAL internet marketing.

If the movie lines are wrapped all the way down the streets for blocks upon blocks after the two weeks is over, all the better for AEG - u better believe it!

That billionaire investor who underwrote Neverland's mortgage lost a TON of money last year in unrelated business and then he lost another TON of money when the biggest collateral on the planet "passed away" before earning the income to repay the loan. Of course its JMO.

I do currently believe that he, as well as the other billionaire investor who owns AEG, - both of them plan to make it ALL back plu$ plu$ plu$ $ome.

What does that have to do with this movie? In the world of billionaire investors who's "story" is that they lost their "bets" on some "eccentric" pop star who decided to suddenly "overdose" - the sky's the limit -

- again, JMO.

I'm just saying FANS, let us all BEWARE. = Be Aware. Please. For Michael's sake (to help him undecut their true motives toward him) and for the sake of our power as a TARGET MARKET because lest we forget - that is exactly what we are, whether we want to believe it or not and the more we "anticipate" this film in every way form and fashion - the more they have succeeded.

as a hoax believer, and if MJ faked death to avoid having to do the concerts, i don't mind AEG profiting as much as they can. if Randy Philips is in on the hoax, then MJ would have cut AEG a good deal, because AEG (or at least Randy) has been supportive of MJ's plan, even if reluctantly maybe? for all the trouble they went through, MJ would have been generous, i think. but this is just a scenario in my mind... if it's a bad story and MJ is dead, then what i'm saying is rubbish.

and the children and Katherine would be so ok if millions go to see the movie because i read that MJ's estate would be getting 90% of the profits of the movie, and only 10% goes to Sony.

what how why who

rowdyangel wrote:

shirley-grace wrote:They had alot of cameras there

Lots of 3D folk in there! Maybe KO was lying and it will be in 3D after all?

I'ld like that as well, but I've confirmed with a couple of cinemes at which the movie will be shown, and they definitely aren't capable of presenting 3D-movies....unless every cinema receives the film + equipment to do so...