How about "Nanny Grace"

Red Velvet wrote:Speaking of her being 're-hired', notice that just before MJ "left" he did that with Branca, Dileo and Grace.

hmm

amber wrote:Agree with you both it raises an eyebrow! why fire then re-hire? http://twitter.com/Amber4146

4evermichael71 wrote:

amber wrote:Agree with you both it raises an eyebrow! why fire then re-hire? http://twitter.com/Amber4146

Maybe because he's been hurt so much and has a hard time trusting people? jmo

marsheliamorgan wrote:or could it be the ONLY reason or MAIN reason these people were fired to begin with was due to tohme tohme doing?just a thought,but,he HAS to be in there or his influence SOMEWHERE one would think as michael said this man was "controllng" and into all his affairs,etc. worth a think or two

marsheliamorgan wrote:or could it be the ONLY reason or MAIN reason these people were fired to begin with was due to tohme tohme doing?just a thought,but,he HAS to be in there or his influence SOMEWHERE one would think as michael said this man was "controllng" and into all his affairs,etc. worth a think or two

White_Orchid wrote:My woman's 'intuition flag' is on high alert re Nanny Grace ....Maybe you will be able to add some insight to lessen my confusion.

My questions are no offense to MJ kids, only I think more to Grace than appearance. She does not look bereaved in any photos...to the contrary, check out yellow top pics, she looks very, very satsified and confident. Why? She knows MJ alive? I hope if we can follow Grace trail..it may lead to MJ.

Media reported Grace fired in December 2008 but links below Grace states MJ fired her in April (2009?) and Daphne interviewer clarifies her interview is in June...B4 MJ 'death'...=firing dates conflict

Grace interview after last firing...she worked as MJ secretary, then nanny for total 17 years, always silent and now talking...why??? Why didn't she fly back to Uganda to rejoin her 2nd husband and begin a life with him and start her own family?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FKejxK0-b4

Grace interview...checking her watch??? range of facial expressions???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpIEOVqqtqQ&feature=related

Grace says loving kids is like loving a cow???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGNniHCO3Gs&feature=related
l

There was another Grace clip on YouTube but it has dispppeared...clip was really bizarre because Grace said she had to 'pray on it' when MJ asked her to be nanny? If my boss asked me to do something and I answered him I would have to 'pray on it'...he'd tell me not to let the door hit my @ss on the way out.
Pray on it=weird=context was that Grace said she knew nothing of debbie rowe pregnancy, so that was why she had to 'pray on it'...IMO,a GF might have to 'pray' but not an employee.

Grace offended by 'ridiculous' separation package? where does this entitlement come from as secretary/nanny? I know many long term employees but they don't display this 'ownership' of their bosses. She sounds like a rejected wife or girlfriend. I know, I get 'entitled' with my BF, not my boss.

Grace is supposed to be married...no rings showing in 2009 vid clips.

Grace supposedly married but her 1st husband mysteriously died.

Grace married again, Dec 2008 ...same month as MJ fired her? But I can't find pics of her new husband, the Ugandan business man.
http://recorder.co.clark.nv.us/oncorewebecommerce/search.aspx?bd=1%2F1%2F1988&ed=10%2F3%2F2009&n=rwaramba&bt=OR&d=10%2F3%2F2009&pt=-1&dt=AMMC%2CMARR%2CMC%2CMCCR%2CMCF&st=fullname&vbt=MC
Record Date : 12/8/2008 1:17:41 PM
# of Pages: 1
Book Type: MAR
Book / Page: 0 / 0
Document Type: (MC) MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE
Modifier
Groom: KISEMBO, JOSEPH

Bride: RWARAMBA, GRACE S

Acknowledgement Date: 12/3/2008
Marriage Date 12/4/2008 12:00:00 AM
Marriage Certificate #: 20081203000894540

Grace also Las Vgas property deeded to her back in 1994...is deed history suspicious? Deed records show Katherne Jackson has property in her name too.

http://recorder.co.clark.nv.us/oncorewebecommerce/search.aspx?bd=1%2F1%2F1988&ed=10%2F3%2F2009&n=rwaramba&bt=OR&d=10%2F3%2F2009&pt=-1&dt=AMMC%2CMARR%2CMC%2CMCCR%2CMCF&st=fullname&vbt=MC
Grace owns Las Vegas property

Record Date : 9/23/2004 9:07:10 AM
# of Pages: 3
Book Type: OR
Book / Page: 0 / 0
Document Type: (D) DEED
Modifier
Grantor: RWARAMBA, GRACE

Grantee: RODGERS, MARY ANN

Acknowledgement Date: Not Available
Marriage Date
Marriage Certificate #:
Total Value: 253,000.00
Parcel # 176-08-112-175
Legal Description: APN 176-08-112-175

So, what do you guys think? Did nanny Grace secretly marry MJ?+seamless reurn to MJ kids+part of hoax???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FKejxK0-b4

Grace interview...checking her watch??? range of facial expressions???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpIEOVqqtqQ&feature=related

Grace says loving kids is like loving a cow???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGNniHCO3Gs&feature=related

Media reported Grace fired in December 2008 but links below Grace
states MJ fired her in April (2009?) and Daphne interviewer clarifies
her interview is in June...B4 MJ 'death'...=firing dates conflic

Grace offended by 'ridiculous' separation package? where does this
entitlement come from as secretary/nanny? I know many long term
employees but they don't display this 'ownership' of their bosses. She
sounds like a rejected wife or girlfriend. I know, I get 'entitled'
with my BF, not my boss.

Pray on
it=weird=context was that Grace said she knew nothing of debbie rowe
pregnancy, so that was why she had to 'pray on it'...IMO,a GF might
have to 'pray' but not an employee.

So, what do you guys think? Did nanny Grace secretly marry MJ?+seamless reurn to MJ kids+part of hoax???

Call me crazy, but I have thinking that for
months. Is MJ married to Grace under the name of Joseph Kisembo. I
tried googling Joseph Kisembo and could not find a profile of him or
pics anywhere. There are some stories about a Joseph Kisembo, but is he
the same person or is that a common name? I don't believe the media
about Rebbie slapping Grace or even Katherine feeling sorry for her and
rehiring. I think she is very important to the children and MJ wants
her there. Why was she fired? Part of the hoax to throw off the
marriage and then she returns just as happy and caring. I don't know.

I really have no idea what to think about Grace.
All I know is that she was obsessed with Michael in highschool, then
she got a job as Michael's assistant through Deepak Chopra, until she
was hired as his nanny when the kids were born, and worked for him in
total for 18 years. She was fired by him a few months before he "died",
which is weird because she was like the only mother the kids have ever
known. She says he'd fired her lots of times before though. I wonder
what she did to p**s Michael off enough to get rid of her? Or was it
Thomme doing the firing...maybe thinking she had too much control over
Michael? I don't understand why she is married but not living with her
husband. Why would she give those interviews if she were dating or
married to Michael? They are obviously pretty damning, since Deepak's
wife had to defend her so vehemently. It's another chapter of questions
and inconsistencies, and I'm sure she has everything to do with the
hoax, especially seeing as she's back with kids again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FKejxK0-b4

Grace interview...checking her watch??? range of facial expressions???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpIEOVqqtqQ&feature=related

Grace says loving kids is like loving a cow???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGNniHCO3Gs&feature=related

Media reported Grace fired in December 2008 but links below Grace
states MJ fired her in April (2009?) and Daphne interviewer clarifies
her interview is in June...B4 MJ 'death'...=firing dates conflic

Grace offended by 'ridiculous' separation package? where does this
entitlement come from as secretary/nanny? I know many long term
employees but they don't display this 'ownership' of their bosses. She
sounds like a rejected wife or girlfriend. I know, I get 'entitled'
with my BF, not my boss.

Pray on
it=weird=context was that Grace said she knew nothing of debbie rowe
pregnancy, so that was why she had to 'pray on it'...IMO,a GF might
have to 'pray' but not an employee.

So, what do you guys think? Did nanny Grace secretly marry MJ?+seamless reurn to MJ kids+part of hoax???

Call me crazy, but I have thinking that for
months. Is MJ married to Grace under the name of Joseph Kisembo. I
tried googling Joseph Kisembo and could not find a profile of him or
pics anywhere. There are some stories about a Joseph Kisembo, but is he
the same person or is that a common name? I don't believe the media
about Rebbie slapping Grace or even Katherine feeling sorry for her and
rehiring. I think she is very important to the children and MJ wants
her there. Why was she fired? Part of the hoax to throw off the
marriage and then she returns just as happy and caring. I don't know.

I really have no idea what to think about Grace.
All I know is that she was obsessed with Michael in highschool, then
she got a job as Michael's assistant through Deepak Chopra, until she
was hired as his nanny when the kids were born, and worked for him in
total for 18 years. She was fired by him a few months before he "died",
which is weird because she was like the only mother the kids have ever
known. She says he'd fired her lots of times before though. I wonder
what she did to p**s Michael off enough to get rid of her? Or was it
Thomme doing the firing...maybe thinking she had too much control over
Michael? I don't understand why she is married but not living with her
husband. Why would she give those interviews if she were dating or
married to Michael? They are obviously pretty damning, since Deepak's
wife had to defend her so vehemently. It's another chapter of questions
and inconsistencies, and I'm sure she has everything to do with the
hoax, especially seeing as she's back with kids again.

Red Velvet wrote:

4evermichael71 wrote:

amber wrote:Agree with you both it raises an eyebrow! why fire then re-hire? http://twitter.com/Amber4146

Maybe because he's been hurt so much and has a hard time trusting people? jmo

yes ... OR ..

or he knew what he was going to be "doing" and needed to line up people he had a history with who he knew he could trust

or is that what you just said

I agree, the people fromt he past had to come back because those were the only ones he could trust.

It sometimes seems as though part of Grace's modus operandi has been to make her dream of marrying MJ come true and I can't decide whether her ambitions paid off for her, or whether she really turned out to humiliate herself in the process. Sad to say I get the vibe from her that it is the latter. That it turned out that MJ never saw her as anything other than an employee and a helper with the kids. She doesn't seem to feel like a woman who is "loved" by him to me. She seems like a woman who feels "used" to me, possibly without having any real "right" to feel that way other than her own expectations (dreams/hopes) not being met.

Regarding why she would marry a man and not live with him, I don't know. Africans do it all the time. There a lot of people in Africa who are married to people in the States. I don't know why that is. Sometimes its for business practicality, sometimes for education, sometimes citizenship issues etc. If MJ's firing of her in Dec. 2008 had anything to do with her getting married, I wonder if it could have been because she would not be as available for the kids. Some fans were saying that after the 25th, she left the Country, so I suppose she could have gone to Africa to see her husband then, if there is such a person that is.

Its hard to know whether Tohme fired her or whether MJ did because even when MJ fires people, from what I understand, he gets other people to do it because he doesn't want to hurt them. I'm guessing he probably doesn't want them to hate him.

This is all so confusing.


so hard to say.

If she would go and do an interview damning MJ, I wonder if his family (including kids) would trust her enough to let her in on the details of the "hoax". Something tells me she may have "indentured" herself for so long that she could be one of many people who is a part of it without even realizing it.

just another way of looking at it

4evermichael71 wrote:

It sometimes seems as though part of Grace's modus operandi has been to make her dream of marrying MJ come true and I can't decide whether her ambitions paid off for her, or whether she really turned out to humiliate herself in the process. Sad to say I get the vibe from her that it is the latter. That it turned out that MJ never saw her as anything other than an employee and a helper with the kids. She doesn't seem to feel like a woman who is "loved" by him to me. She seems like a woman who feels "used" to me, possibly without having any real "right" to feel that way other than her own expectations (dreams/hopes) not being met.

Regarding why she would marry a man and not live with him, I don't know. Africans do it all the time. There a lot of people in Africa who are married to people in the States. I don't know why that is. Sometimes its for business practicality, sometimes for education, sometimes citizenship issues etc. If MJ's firing of her in Dec. 2008 had anything to do with her getting married, I wonder if it could have been because she would not be as available for the kids. Some fans were saying that after the 25th, she left the Country, so I suppose she could have gone to Africa to see her husband then, if there is such a person that is.

Its hard to know whether Tohme fired her or whether MJ did because even when MJ fires people, from what I understand, he gets other people to do it because he doesn't want to hurt them. I'm guessing he probably doesn't want them to hate him.

This is all so confusing.


so hard to say.

If she would go and do an interview damning MJ, I wonder if his family (including kids) would trust her enough to let her in on the details of the "hoax". Something tells me she may have "indentured" herself for so long that she could be one of many people who is a part of it without even realizing it.

just another way of looking at it

@Red Velvet I don't think he saw her as anything more than a caregiver for his children. She wanted more but I seriously doubt she got it. You're so right about the points you made.

ILuvUMoreMJ wrote:Oh I totally believe MJ is seeing the kids too. I don't think he'd be away from them for this long. The only thing about Grace not being in on the hoax...I'm not sure the kids, and Blanket especially, since they're probably very close to her, would be able to keep that big of a secret. I think MJ rehired her himself because his mother needed some help and the kids missed her, so she must know.

Its what I feel anyway. Its hard because one would think that with them living in the same home for so long, traveling together, raising the kids and all that there must be something there, and I can certainly see how anyone could see it that way, but if you look at other facts, it really isn't necessarily so. For one, MJ went out of his way to make it a bullet point (I think it was #1) in the Ebony interview that he did NOT marry his nanny, when that rumor was rampant during the latter part of '07. And secondly, in the photographs of them that the papparrazzi got of them walking down the street, he is walking so far in front of her almost as if to make a 'statement', while she (to me) seemed to be enjoying the inuendo that it appeared as (them being "together") as she was walking with her head down, sort of like almost "blushing", and three is we can always see how hard she is literally working whenever she is with the kids, like in the LWMJ documentary when they were getting out of the van and she's hauling all those bags and even the pictures now - with Blanket on her back. I mean let's face it, he's about to be 8 in a few months and kids tend to get heavy very fast around that age. If the tenderness with which he sings about loving someone is any indication of how he'd 'treat' his woman, I mean no pun but errrrrr, this ain't "it" LOL

But back to whether she is involved in the "hoax" or not... I'm kind of getting the feeling she is not. Maybe she left to go to Africa (or somewhere) and the kids were simply asking for her. She was with them since day 1, so why would they not, especially if Michael's not around them right now, and actually, they probably really miss her, even if he is. I know I'm among the few (if any others) who believe that MJ could be seeing those kids and nobody would ever know. That man loves those kids and he is a genius, and where there's a will, there's a way.

Red Velvet wrote:

ILuvUMoreMJ wrote:Oh I totally believe MJ is seeing the kids too. I don't think he'd be away from them for this long. The only thing about Grace not being in on the hoax...I'm not sure the kids, and Blanket especially, since they're probably very close to her, would be able to keep that big of a secret. I think MJ rehired her himself because his mother needed some help and the kids missed her, so she must know.

ah now there's a thought ... hmm, it makes sense to me!

Could also explain why she doesn't seem like MJ's gone. And could explain why she's working extra hard (or so it seems to me) to be enjoying her job just as usual. Gotta impress the boss!

4evermichael71 wrote:

Its what I feel anyway. Its hard because one would think that with them living in the same home for so long, traveling together, raising the kids and all that there must be something there, and I can certainly see how anyone could see it that way, but if you look at other facts, it really isn't necessarily so. For one, MJ went out of his way to make it a bullet point (I think it was #1) in the Ebony interview that he did NOT marry his nanny, when that rumor was rampant during the latter part of '07. And secondly, in the photographs of them that the papparrazzi got of them walking down the street, he is walking so far in front of her almost as if to make a 'statement', while she (to me) seemed to be enjoying the inuendo that it appeared as (them being "together") as she was walking with her head down, sort of like almost "blushing", and three is we can always see how hard she is literally working whenever she is with the kids, like in the LWMJ documentary when they were getting out of the van and she's hauling all those bags and even the pictures now - with Blanket on her back. I mean let's face it, he's about to be 8 in a few months and kids tend to get heavy very fast around that age. If the tenderness with which he sings about loving someone is any indication of how he'd 'treat' his woman, I mean no pun but errrrrr, this ain't "it" LOL

But back to whether she is involved in the "hoax" or not... I'm kind of getting the feeling she is not. Maybe she left to go to Africa (or somewhere) and the kids were simply asking for her. She was with them since day 1, so why would they not, especially if Michael's not around them right now, and actually, they probably really miss her, even if he is. I know I'm among the few (if any others) who believe that MJ could be seeing those kids and nobody would ever know. That man loves those kids and he is a genius, and where there's a will, there's a way.

My thoughts exactly! I never saw a hint of anything romantic from him concerning Grace. I also agree with your points on whether she's in on the hoax. At first I thought she had to be, but after reading what you wrote, I tend to lean towards she doesn't know...

Truth_or_Dare wrote:For a while a thought he was involved with her but now after reading what you guys wrote and thinking more about it...I don;t think they were involved...or maybe they were at some point but they ended it and she was still inlove with him...I'm not sure.
But in the interview when she hear hears the qustion about Debbie ( the kids being born by Debbie) she makes a face...like a jealous face...like the kinda of face a woman would make who's BF just had kids with another woman and not with her...even if there was nothing romantic between MJ and Debbie.
And he didn;t seem to treat her as anything else but a nanny when they went out. I doubt that's how bad MJ would treat his woman..(ouch, wouldn;t wanna be his GF if that is the case ) . In the Bashir documentary you can see he snaps at her when they are out at the mall...after they get out of the van, they walk in and MJ is asked to sign an autograph and Prince (i think ) is holding his hand and he hands him over to Grace and snaps at her. And also kinda talks to her like she is an emplyee...not as you would to a GF..or wife...
And at that surprise visit at the supermarket...there's a video of it somewhere...they have a look exceance...and there's something in his eyes when looking at her...doesn;t seem to be that lnda "love"..know what I mean?

4evermichael71 wrote:

Truth_or_Dare wrote:For a while a thought he was involved with her but now after reading what you guys wrote and thinking more about it...I don;t think they were involved...or maybe they were at some point but they ended it and she was still inlove with him...I'm not sure.
But in the interview when she hear hears the qustion about Debbie ( the kids being born by Debbie) she makes a face...like a jealous face...like the kinda of face a woman would make who's BF just had kids with another woman and not with her...even if there was nothing romantic between MJ and Debbie.
And he didn;t seem to treat her as anything else but a nanny when they went out. I doubt that's how bad MJ would treat his woman..(ouch, wouldn;t wanna be his GF if that is the case ) . In the Bashir documentary you can see he snaps at her when they are out at the mall...after they get out of the van, they walk in and MJ is asked to sign an autograph and Prince (i think ) is holding his hand and he hands him over to Grace and snaps at her. And also kinda talks to her like she is an emplyee...not as you would to a GF..or wife...
And at that surprise visit at the supermarket...there's a video of it somewhere...they have a look exceance...and there's something in his eyes when looking at her...doesn;t seem to be that lnda "love"..know what I mean?

I know exactly what you mean. I don't think they were involved. I think the way she felt about Debbie having Paris and Prince was jealousy born out of an infatuation/lust she had way before she came into his employ. Wasn't she involved with Jermaine at one point?

ILuvUMoreMJ wrote:Who didn't Jermaine have an affair with? How could he and Michael be such polar opposites?

MJFoReVeRandAlways wrote:I don´t know, I don´t like her. It´s something about her, can´t really put my finger on it. I have a hard time believe that MJ would fall for someone like her, someone almost without a personality. Is it just me or does she look angry all the time? I don´t know her, I know, but 9/10 my instincts are right. I do however believe she was a good employee to Michael, otherwise she wouldn´t be working with the kids now. So I think her infatuation makes her be 100% loyal to him, and as we know, before he "died" he rehired people he had been working with for a long time, people he could trust. He knew she was somebody to count on.

What I don´t like is that after MJ "died" some bodyguard said that he had someone special in his life, but he wasn´t going to reveal who she was. He said it was up to her to step forward. Hope it´s not her, cause that´s the only thing that leads me to believe that it might have been something between them.

MJFoReVeRandAlways wrote:Yeah but why though? Why lie? I´m sure MJ had women, and probably someone special now and then, but I don´t think it was her. I think I´ve read about him being infatuated with some asian acrobatic woman? (sorry if it sounds weird, my english ) It was said that he visited her often in Vegas.

MJFoReVeRandAlways wrote:Well I won´t say everyone, because there are some that aren´t attracted to him, but I guess it´s safe to say that you and I aren´t one of those. Yummieeeeee

ILuvUMoreMJ wrote:I put him as a screen saver on my husband's computer.

4evermichael71 wrote:

MJFoReVeRandAlways wrote:Well I won´t say everyone, because there are some that aren´t attracted to him, but I guess it´s safe to say that you and I aren´t one of those. Yummieeeeee

yeah, that's a pretty sure thing I had posters of him covering every square inch of my bedroom from the time I was 11 til I moved out of my parent's home when I was 19 LOL..I would have still had them up but my ex-boyfriend didn't approve

Lavander wrote:Hi Everyone
I just found out Grace went out with Jermaine for a while..I was trying to find some information on Joseph Kisembo or a picture of them together but cant find anything. There is a public marriage certificate for them both but well some people are saying that MJ changed his name officially to marry her in private. It's a mad theory I know...

4evermichael71 wrote:

ILuvUMoreMJ wrote:Who didn't Jermaine have an affair with? How could he and Michael be such polar opposites?

LOL that's a good question Well, both of them are good questions