why are most MJ fans unwilling to even consider a hoax?

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Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:19 am

I post a lot on one of the biggest MJ forums..... and one thing that have left me puzzled is how unwilling most people are to even consider the possibility that this is a hoax. The few who've dared to express their thoughts about this have effectively been silenced, either by ban or by threat to be banned.

Suspect

Im 50/50 on this matter. He may very well be dead, but i just haven't seen anything that 110% proves that he is. Instead i see a lot of inconsistencies, changing stories, "sources" telling stories, laughable police investigation, a family that seems more concerned about money than anything else, a weird memorial etc. All that combined with no 110% proof just doesnt add up in my book.
When im on the MJ board, i feel like im the only one who sees all this, i really do. Everyone else just accepts that he's "dead". I once even dared to post the pic of him arriving at the ER and pointed out how the paramedics where chilling and chatting, no cpr being done and no medical equipment on MJ - and the response was "We'll have to accept that we'll never know what really happened to him". Again Suspect It's been 1½ month. The investigation is still going on, he's still not burried - yet we're at the point where we should give up and accept that we'll never know? Uhm.... NO.

Have you experienced the same on the MJ boards you go to? I dare you to go and make a hoax thread. You'll be stoned by other members.
Why is it they won't discuss and even consider this? I remember back during the trial, all fans were critical of the news, the sources, the facts, of whether or not things added up - and now they just accept whatever they're told? I dont get it......... scratch
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Post by sunnyscrapper on Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:28 am

Good point. They are not for me as I cannot accept this given all the issues surrounding Michael's death.
Sadly others have accepted what the media is feeding them. This is just what Michael told us not to do.
We are keeping our minds and our eyes open and questioning everything. We have a duty to do this. If we don't question what we are told then we are no better than dumb animals.
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Post by summer+sc3nt on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:25 am

I'm with both of you that Michael is alive. I read the papers but I usually find faults when they have holes in their reports. Many a time holes as big as the Grand Canyon lol... Altho I was not an MJ's fan I knew they made up those stories to make MJ appear guilty. It is the same everywhere. They try to bring down the most successful of em all. This site or sites like this is going to help us to voice our opinion and let the MEDIA know that GOOD SHALL CONQUER EVIL...
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Post by neverlandsfairy on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:27 am

Have you experienced the same on the MJ boards you go to? I dare you to go and make a hoax thread. You'll be stoned by other members.
Why is it they won't discuss and even consider this? I remember back during the trial, all fans were critical of the news, the sources, the facts, of whether or not things added up - and now they just accept whatever they're told? I dont get it......... scratch[/quote] lol!

Well Well I dared to PM one of the moderators from a major forum asking about the possibility to post a fanfic Im writting concerning the case.Since it started, writing is my way to deal with all this surreal confusion...And...I was gently suggested to be shutted up, and with a very polite tone, the moderator also called me crazy,delusional and etc...It was not even a thread, a post, but a matter PM, about a fanfic that I will shall name as The Illusionist, when its finished... Rolling Eyes

So its a mystery why massive diehard forums such as MJJBoard and MJJDreams and others, they are completly blind, deaf and muted, about this peculiar situation of Mike´s "missing case"; case nowadays is literally a missing case: even if we consider the horrible possibility of him being really dead, since his decesead body have been wondering for over than a month on "a place with no name", and no one seems to know where he had gone, or when will be setted to rest... No Shocked . scratch
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Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:33 am

neverlandsfairy wrote:
lol!

Well Well I dared to PM one of the moderators from a major forum asking about the possibility to post a fanfic Im writting concerning the case.Since it started, writing is my way to deal with all this surreal confusion...And...I was gently suggested to be shutted up, and with a very polite tone, the moderator also called me crazy,delusional and etc...It was not even a thread, a post, but a matter PM, about a fanfic that I will shall name as The Illusionist, when its finished... Rolling Eyes

So its a mystery why massive diehard forums such as MJJBoard and MJJDreams and others, they are completly blind, deaf and muted, about this peculiar situation of Mike´s "missing case"; case nowadays is literally a missing case: even if we consider the horrible possibility of him being really dead, since his decesead body have been wondering for over than a month on "a place with no name", and no one seems to know where he had gone, or when will be setted to rest... No Shocked . scratch

LOL - did you PM a mod on MJJboard, by any chance? Im a moderator there - and boy have i had my arguments with the rest of the team. I've - kindly- been told to shut up about hoax theories too.... Evil or Very Mad


Last edited by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by summer+sc3nt on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:38 am

My posts over weren't that many but Yes, I've seen members being stoned and degraded by other members. It is so unfair. I even did say on a few to post their beliefs on the forum if they believed otherwise and not insult others for their opinions. It only falls on deaf ears! Just imagine Michael went through worst then us. He's the greatest. People need to practice freedom of speech and learn to respect others.
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Post by DawneVee on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:39 am

I had thought about going to other MJ forums, you know to be with other fans...
but if folks like us are getting shunned and banned for having a differing opinion, then I think I will stay where the like minded folks are. Smile
I have stumbled upon a few sites where people are really pi$$ed at us for even thinking this could be a hoax and are calling us all kinds of names.
I sit there and stare at those people making those comments and ask 'how come you aren't investigating anything?'
I mean from that 911 call till now nothing has made sense and nobody has gotten any real answers.

I mean no disrespect to MJ's family if indeed he is dead, I am just trying to find out that truth is all and the media is doing a really good job at giving us the run around over and over again.

This is why I wish Janet or Rebbie would go to the press, because those are 2 ladies I believe I can trust. Jermaine and Joe are having waaay too much camera time... Rolling Eyes
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Post by ballongiraf on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:42 am

yeah, i just wanna know the truth - whatever it may be.
I dont get how discussing the possibility of a hoax is degrading towards MJ, as i get told it is...?
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Post by summer+sc3nt on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:45 am

DawneVee wrote:

I had thought about going to other MJ forums, you know to be with other fans...
but if folks like us are getting shunned and banned for having a differing opinion, then I think I will stay where the like minded folks are. Smile
I have stumbled upon a few sites where people are really pi$$ed at us for even thinking this could be a hoax and are calling us all kinds of names.
I sit there and stare at those people making those comments and ask 'how come you aren't investigating anything?'
I mean from that 911 call till now nothing has made sense and nobody has gotten any real answers. Rolling Eyes


I'm saying this on behalf for all of us that believe! "They're just plain ignorant! They are simpletons in life and detest us that are creative and adventurous!"

Boy! does that speak volumes or what lol... afro


Last edited by summer+sc3nt on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by summer+sc3nt on Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:46 am

ballongiraf wrote:yeah, i just wanna know the truth - whatever it may be.
I dont get how discussing the possibility of a hoax is degrading towards MJ, as i get told it is...?

No never think that my friend.. It means that we're trying to understand Michael. We'll know when to back down.
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Post by ilprincipe on Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:02 pm

This fans on the other forums may call themselve "fans"...They may love MJ and his music...
but they are just too small-minded to think about MJ as person and not as entertainer/dancer and so on....To believe that he died as an drug addict...WAKE UP, PEOPLE and USE YOUR BRAIN.....
I wouldn´t want to discuss with them....it`s useless.
I`m not a diehard MJ fan...but i`ve grown up with his music...
he was always the greatest...the best....and will be forever...
And all the weird circumstances around his "death"
didn`t convince me until now, that he has gone.
I have no real evidence that he´s alive....but also no evidence that he`s dead...
I will continue research until i know, what really happened.
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Post by curiousgirl on Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:05 pm

ilprincipe wrote:This fans on the other forums may call themselve "fans"...They may love MJ and his music...
but they are just too small-minded to think about MJ as person and not as entertainer/dancer and so on....To believe that he died as an drug addict...WAKE UP, PEOPLE and USE YOUR BRAIN.....
I wouldn´t want to discuss with them....it`s useless.
I`m not a diehard MJ fan...but i`ve grown up with his music...
he was always the greatest...the best....and will be forever...
And all the weird circumstances around his "death"
didn`t convince me until now, that he has gone.
I have no real evidence that he´s alive....but also no evidence that he`s dead...
I will continue research until i know, what really happened.

I agree with on that , Your absolutely right.
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Post by ilprincipe on Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:07 pm

.@ curiousgirl: your avatar is making me nervous ..... Embarassed
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Post by Silence on Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:02 pm

Hello all together, this is my first post.

I think people do not believe in a hoax because there was never a "fake death" done by a really BIG artist. I remember that there have been faked deaths Alan Abel and by a well known Bandleader called Les Humphries (probably in the 70s).

But none of the big stars (Cobain, Morrison, Hendrix, Lady Di, Elvis, Andy Kaufmann, Marilyn) etc who had some hoax theories surrounding their deaths going on (or building up afterwards) returned to the spotlight.

On the other hand everyone will experience death in his / her life. Some already lost family members or friends. And I think you first have to experience those kinds of things to know what death is and that it will come to us all.

When you learned that you realize that noone is here forever. Michael was quite young with his 50 years of age but many many people die everyday and are way younger, many die with mysterious circumstances.

Why should it be so way off for a person like Mj to die ? A lot of stars who seemed healthy died his age or younger also (Michael Hutchence from INXS ...NO hoax theory.... Robert palmer died of a heart attack ... no hoax theory...)

Michael was famous for his "being different", almost "alien-alike"... unreachable for his fans... and to most of us he always was "just there" in this world.

That's why it is so hard to accept that he is gone.

-----

For the hoax theory:

I guess most people do not believe in anything that never happened before.... So no Elvis hoax is proven after 30 plus years.... and why should there be a hoax surrounding MJ's death ? it is all still so fresh and all the crazy and different media reports won't let you look through it all.

Let me try with an example:

Assume we have the second world war. Every country's media and government tells you something different, you believe in different things, but you definitely cannot see what is going on worldwide at the moment. You can only get good information after 20 years when you read history books about it.....
maybe a very bad example but probably you get what I mean.


Information will make its way to all of us... but it takes time.
So what looks like a conspiracy or a hoax NOW may look very plausible in a few years.

Another reason why people don't want to do their research is maybe that they fear to not find a definite answer. And "knowing" is what people like better than "believing".

I thin kthis hoax theory should not become a kind of religion. (I heard the words "believer" or "nonbeliever" several times over there on mjhd.... and that really scares me off.

This MUST NOT become a sort of religion.

mjhd was there to do research and to maybe find a proof for a hoax or against it (yes, that belongs to it, too)
There were many good theories out there, but too many people forgot to do their research on the "this speaks against a hoax"-part or forgot that many of the so called "proves" or "lies" could easily be explained.

To find the truth and the prove for a hoax, you have to WANT to FIND the TRUTH, not just try t find what you wish for.


Like I said for me mjhs was about research (whatever the result would have been)
I understand that THIS forum is more about MJ, his fans and more dedicated to the idea and BELIEVE that he is still I alive.
I do not share that belief, so I will not post much here. That I do not believe in a hoax does not mean that I do'nt want to know the truth. I am here because you people do brilliant work and I really appreciate much information that has been made available.

One last thing:

Please stay healthy.
Do not loose yourself in the hoax theory.
Do not think that you will find the answer SOON. Relax and accept that you maybe will see way clearer in a year or two.

And do not fall for cheaters. This really broke my heart everytime I've seen this on mjhd.... That's why I am not a fan of "my conversation with mj" .... please .. concentrate on facts and not on "i think it coulds......." especially not when it has something to do with other people in a chatroom or in a forum or if someon e tells you he "knows" something.... do not fall too easily, cause 99.99 % of the stuff will not be true.

now flame me or whatever ;-)

have a great time and support souza, cause it is more than nice of her to take the time and do all the work with this new forum


















people
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Post by InnerDemon on Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:11 pm

Great post, silence. Nothing more to add! Very Happy
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Post by neverlandsfairy on Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:27 pm

ballongiraf wrote:
neverlandsfairy wrote:
lol!

Well Well I dared to PM one of the moderators from a major forum asking about the possibility to post a fanfic Im writting concerning the case.Since it started, writing is my way to deal with all this surreal confusion...And...I was gently suggested to be shutted up, and with a very polite tone, the moderator also called me crazy,delusional and etc...It was not even a thread, a post, but a matter PM, about a fanfic that I will shall name as The Illusionist, when its finished... Rolling Eyes

So its a mystery why massive diehard forums such as MJJBoard and MJJDreams and others, they are completly blind, deaf and muted, about this peculiar situation of Mike´s "missing case"; case nowadays is literally a missing case: even if we consider the horrible possibility of him being really dead, since his decesead body have been wondering for over than a month on "a place with no name", and no one seems to know where he had gone, or when will be setted to rest... No Shocked . scratch

LOL - did you PM a mod on MJJboard, by any chance? Im a moderator there - and boy have i had my arguments with the rest of the team. I've - kindly- been told to shut up about hoax theories too.... Evil or Very Mad

Nope it was not on MJJBoard was in another, but lets say the another moderator was friends of the one from MJJBoard Sad
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Post by EarthAngel90 on Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:39 pm

ilprincipe wrote:This fans on the other forums may call themselve "fans"...They may love MJ and his music...
but they are just too small-minded to think about MJ as person and not as entertainer/dancer and so on....To believe that he died as an drug addict...WAKE UP, PEOPLE and USE YOUR BRAIN.....
I wouldn´t want to discuss with them....it`s useless.
I`m not a diehard MJ fan...but i`ve grown up with his music...
he was always the greatest...the best....and will be forever...
And all the weird circumstances around his "death"
didn`t convince me until now, that he has gone.
I have no real evidence that he´s alive....but also no evidence that he`s dead...
I will continue research until i know, what really happened.

ilprinicpe .... you spoke the words right out of my mouth ...!!!!
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Post by MJSmile4Us on Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:43 pm

I agree with u. like many of us here there are so may things don't add up that makes me belive completelt that he's gone. yesterday I listened to the 911 call again on YouTube but the more I listened, I felt that even the 911 operator sound less worried and even as if though he couldn'e really be bothered - like the part when he said 'oh ok the doctor is there....'. and who hangs up the phone, especially if u r a professional operator?

plus, AEG is under fire again for not paying a cent earnt from the memorials service to the police like they promised. what a surprise?!

the more I read and hear what's been said about MJ's 'death' the more I feel that it's becoming a serious matter. like some people have expressed great wish for Michael to make a spectacular comeback like he always have done throughout his career, I belive that he is in great danger and perhaps under a witness protecion programme. imo this would be a justifiable theory to explain all of things that happened since June 25th to make it really I mean REALLY believable that he is 'dead'. like the insurance payout and the custody battle.

and what really confuses is that why John Branca and John McLain were rehired after being fired by Michael 2-3 years ago? imo it's because they helped Michael become financially stable during 80's with all the Beatles catalogie and stuff - MJ would need someone to take care of his finances right, preferably those who knows how to do their job well. Although Katherine has been Michael's rock and his business confidant for the last 2 years or so, MJ would have known that her hands would be full and for the sake of her health, he chose these 2 men. and the rest of the family , well, no explanation is needed ?
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Post by Lorrie on Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:56 pm

MJSmile4Us wrote:the more I read and hear what's been said about MJ's 'death' the more I feel that it's becoming a serious matter. like some people have expressed great wish for Michael to make a spectacular comeback like he always have done throughout his career, I belive that he is in great danger and perhaps under a witness protecion programme. imo this would be a justifiable theory to explain all of things that happened since June 25th to make it really I mean REALLY believable that he is 'dead'. like the insurance payout and the custody battle.

You and I are on the exact same page, MJSmile4Us. While I would love for Michael to make a grand comeback one day, I think this situation goes far deeper than something entertainment-related.

I really feel that he's alive, and that's only because an attempt to murder him was somehow foiled, leading to all of the current weirdness surrounding exactly what happened.

We may never know what the circumstances were on June 25 and before, or if Michael is even definitely still alive, but I do hope that he is and that he's receiving the proper protection to keep him that way.
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Post by MJSmile4Us on Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:08 pm

@Lorrie:


I also really believe that an attempt to murder dear MJ was failed. what makes me think this way is that the fect that there has been reports that Michael always knew that omeone was out to get him for his Beatles catalogue and even asked his friend (can' remember the neame though sorry) to stay over at his house coz he was so afraid that someone's trying to poison him. so by realizing this, Micahel would not have just sit there and do nothing - his life was at risk here.

the media feeds us with him being an addict b4 his 'death' crap, but I think it has been blown out of proportion. the scale of the story keeps growing by the minute - it was demerol first then propofol then the raid of Murray's clinic adn home, discovery of numerous doctors involved as well as the sory that Micahel went 'pharmacy shopping' and yes leave the best for last - that he even used his son Prince's name to get the drugs. it's laughable how the media can cook up such ridiculous stories.
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Post by mjfan on Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:14 am

On other forums dedicated to MJ I just don't bring up the possibility that MJ is alive. Most people just can't think outside the box. It doesn't mean that those who CAN think outside the box are right, but I think creative thinking as long as it remains at an emotionally healthy level, should be encouraged.
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Post by CaptainJaneway on Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:48 am

I have gone to imdb to read over there. I don't post but people have brought that up and they get shot down with he's dead and you are crazy.

I have told coworkers and friends about the mjhd site and some have said it is all coincidences and not to be believe. They will try to say anything. I have tried pointing out some of the stuff and they still say I am crazy. Well I don't care I believe he is out there somewhere just biding his time to come back to us when it is safe to do so.
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Post by mjfan on Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:18 am

Exploring ideas and possibilities is never crazy. If it was, we wouldn't even have electricity.
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Post by Heidi on Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:36 am

ballongiraf wrote:I post a lot on one of the biggest MJ forums..... and one thing that have left me puzzled is how unwilling most people are to even consider the possibility that this is a hoax. The few who've dared to express their thoughts about this have effectively been silenced, either by ban or by threat to be banned.

Suspect

Im 50/50 on this matter. He may very well be dead, but i just haven't seen anything that 110% proves that he is. Instead i see a lot of inconsistencies, changing stories, "sources" telling stories, laughable police investigation, a family that seems more concerned about money than anything else, a weird memorial etc. All that combined with no 110% proof just doesnt add up in my book.
When im on the MJ board, i feel like im the only one who sees all this, i really do. Everyone else just accepts that he's "dead". I once even dared to post the pic of him arriving at the ER and pointed out how the paramedics where chilling and chatting, no cpr being done and no medical equipment on MJ - and the response was "We'll have to accept that we'll never know what really happened to him". Again Suspect It's been 1½ month. The investigation is still going on, he's still not burried - yet we're at the point where we should give up and accept that we'll never know? Uhm.... NO.

Have you experienced the same on the MJ boards you go to? I dare you to go and make a hoax thread. You'll be stoned by other members.
Why is it they won't discuss and even consider this? I remember back during the trial, all fans were critical of the news, the sources, the facts, of whether or not things added up - and now they just accept whatever they're told? I dont get it......... scratch

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I agree with you.....
Im SO shure this is a hoax !! So many things just DONT add up...
I feel in my haert he IS alive...
I DONT trust the medias... at all !
He must have some reasons to take this step..... its his decisions... And i just hope he is safe... !!
This is a big step... and im shure this havved been planned for years.............
I will never blame him for do this... I respect him for this. He had enough.. He made a choice....
He was a strong person.... and knew eccactly what he wanted and what he didnt wanted.. for his life!!
He is so brilliant in his mind.....
If people want to believe he is dead... its fine.. I dont believe he is..
I love him more... for this!!
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Post by MJSmile4Us on Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:53 am

CaptainJaneway wrote:I have gone to imdb to read over there. I don't post but people have brought that up and they get shot down with he's dead and you are crazy.

I have told coworkers and friends about the mjhd site and some have said it is all coincidences and not to be believe. They will try to say anything. I have tried pointing out some of the stuff and they still say I am crazy. Well I don't care I believe he is out there somewhere just biding his time to come back to us when it is safe to do so.







u r not alone about getting misunderstood by ur peers - when I tried to talk with my family and friends about the possibility of Michael still being alive and that he staged his death they think I am mad. they even said that I should stop listen to Michael's music coz I was becoming insane?? but I told them to open their eyes and ears - there r 2 sides to every story that got reported ever since his 'death'. there is definitely somethin goin on - they called me insesnsitive for saying that Paris's speech at the memorial service was ingenuine but I told them look at Prince then- he was chewing and looked bored out of his mind. he's a kid yes but I would be devastated if I lost my one and only parent..LaToya said that Prince is reluctant to show his emotions while Paris cries alot whenever Michael's name is mentond - but it's LaToya -what she says comes into one ear and goes straight back out the other side Smile
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