"The Perfect Stranger"

So you are saying that your Great Grandfather just disappeared and was replaced by his double and no-one noticed? Hmmm sorry but unless your Great Grandfather had a twin then am not sure...... someone would have to share his likes/dislikes, mannerismns even smell the same (yes people do has a distinct smell- especially men-especially feet etc!!) everyone has unique details that can maybe be copied at a distance if they look alike and with plastic surgery can be in appearence be like that person but to live with a stand in and not notice? No I dont think so. Your Great Grandmother didn't notice? what about intimate details etc? Charlie Chaplin Fathered a child at a very old age-in other words some old guys lead a fairly normal life as regards intimacy and others dont bother so how did the double know? A lot of old people have a sex life and I am not old and have not had as many years living with my other half but I for one would know if it was my Husband or not even in the dark if I was drunk! And where was your Great Grandfather for 5 years?
Sorry but am afraid maybe you havn't explained enough but I find this very hard to believe. Just as an afterthought do you think I could swap my Hubby for Brad Pitt or Damian Marley for 5 years?? Would be nice hee hee!

Actually when annie wrote her theory she used the possibility of a decoy, she talked about political decoys during war. She had an excellent example, a picture, and to be honest I couldn´t see the difference between the real person and the decoy. To this day I can´t. And this was even before plastic surgery time. Well, the extreme ones at least

MJFoReVeRandAlways wrote:Actually when annie wrote her theory she used the possibility of a decoy, she talked about political decoys during war. She had an excellent example, a picture, and to be honest I couldn´t see the difference between the real person and the decoy. To this day I can´t. And this was even before plastic surgery time. Well, the extreme ones at least

Yes I do know of the decoy in the war, it was a decoy for Montgomery and I posted full details on another thread. But that was a decoy-I expect if someone had lived with Montgomery they would have known the difference between him and the decoy even if they resenbled each other almost exactly. They say everyone has a double but no two minds, habits, likes and dislikes and intimate details are the same. Montgomery did not smoke or drink and the decoy did so that proves that people can be doubles in looks, but only looks. No-one is the same in the mind, habits and likes/dislikes. We are all unique.

Yes of course, but this seems to have happened to the OP which makes it at least a little possible. I´m not saying that MJ did use a decoy, I´m not saying that at all, I´m just trying to at least leave it open as a possibility, even if I do agree it´s scary to believe that even the family could be fooled.

that was an interessting story and I wont question it. I have always taken for granted that Michael had a double from time to time but after your story I have to ask myself. How can one be 100 percent certain that the one they say is Michael really is Michael. It´s nice to turn your brain inside out occasionally but these last month has got me thinking of parallell universes and realitywarps.

MJFoReVeRandAlways wrote:Yes of course, but this seems to have happened to the OP which makes it at least a little possible. I´m not saying that MJ did use a decoy, I´m not saying that at all, I´m just trying to at least leave it open as a possibility, even if I do agree it´s scary to believe that even the family could be fooled.

Yes I do agree that MJ could use a decoy and at times he even admitted it to get him out of venues safely etc and who knows who it was for sure behind the mask and sunglasses? What I am saying is I find it virtually impossible for a decoy to take the place of anyone in their real life living with their family. There are too many things in everday life which are different. I dont think you need worry about a family being fooled as I do not think it is at all possible. To me that idea is preposterous.

The only feasable thing in this scenario if some people honestly believe that the past few years that MJ was not MJ would be if he had a double just in his public life and not with his family and his private life. I myself do not think this at all, but for someone to live Michaels life for him, live with his kids, his staff etc- Noooooooooo! Too far fetched. His Mother would know for sure. A Mother knows her child no matter how old the child is.

Harleyblonde wrote:

MJFoReVeRandAlways wrote:Yes of course, but this seems to have happened to the OP which makes it at least a little possible. I´m not saying that MJ did use a decoy, I´m not saying that at all, I´m just trying to at least leave it open as a possibility, even if I do agree it´s scary to believe that even the family could be fooled.

Yes I do agree that MJ could use a decoy and at times he even admitted it to get him out of venues safely etc and who knows who it was for sure behind the mask and sunglasses? What I am saying is I find it virtually impossible for a decoy to take the place of anyone in their real life living with their family. There are too many things in everday life which are different. I dont think you need worry about a family being fooled as I do not think it is at all possible. To me that idea is preposterous.

Oh no I don´t either. I´ve never been a fan of the theory that someone actually lived MJ´s life. Sorry I think I was being unclear. I meant of course that he used the decoy when he wanted to be left alone, fooling the media or making public appearances sometimes. But not being a father, husband, son, friend and brother. That I don´t think either.

What I want to say is that , at a moment,I had a similar idea. Years ago I thought the masked and very changed Michael was not the real Michael, when, after a long time, I saw Michael again and, in spite of the natural changes, his surgeries and diseases, he seemed to me ...another person. I couldn't find the well known features I used to like so much and even the voice seemed modified and the first though was: OMG, where is Michael? I had already read about different and numerous situations when the personalities appealed to decoys for getting some peace in their life and I was sure that Michael did the same. I'd like you to understand me well...I am trying to say that I understand what TheKiddNerd want to explain. It could be possible, why not, but I'd like to believe that Michael is still alive and that there was not just a... family business. Also, some time ago I read somewhere a similar theory...Michael is dead for more years and the person dead in June is his decoy. So...don't shoot me ! Be gentle !

speechlessornot wrote:What I want to say is that , at a moment,I had a similar idea. Years ago I thought the masked and very changed Michael was not the real Michael, when, after a long time, I saw Michael again and, in spite of the natural changes, his surgeries and diseases, he seemed to me ...another person. I couldn't find the well known features I used to like so much and even the voice seemed modified and the first though was: OMG, where is Michael? I had already read about different and numerous situations when the personalities appealed to decoys for getting some peace in their life and I was sure that Michael did the same. I'd like you to understand me well...I am trying to say that I understand what TheKiddNerd want to explain. It could be possible, why not, but I'd like to believe that Michael is still alive and that there was not just a... family business. Also, some time ago I read somewhere a similar theory...Michael is dead for more years and the person dead in June is his decoy. So...don't shoot me ! Be gentle !

Yes I do understand what you are saying and it can make perfect sense and is well worth looking into more- I would not be at all surprised if the "public" MJ was not him or maybe at times not him but what I am trying to point out if you read my other posts is that TheKiddNerd said that her Great Grandfather was replaced by a substitute in the family home, slept, ate etc etc with her and her Great Grandmother and not one family member noticed the difference???? We on this forum noticed the difference in the 02 MJ and that was a public appearence and we have not lived with MJ and have not eaten, slept etc with the 02 MJ if it was a different one or the real one and we noticed a difference. See what I mean? I do not think you can substitute someone to live the life of another without the family knowing.

I’m sure that Michael used a double and certainly several ones. I agree with you on this point.
Doubles can sometimes be more resembling to a person than the person herself.
Charlie Chaplin is said to have participate to a look alike contest (he didn’t gave his real identity of course) but he didn’t won it ! Someone else was more resembling to Charlie Chaplin than himself...
What you are talking about TheKiddNerd is a case of usurpation of identity. The story of Martin Guerre is a famous example of that (it happened in France about in 1560. A man was judge to have usurpated the identity of Martin Guerre during several years in order to inherit his father. The man lived with Martin’s wife and they had children together. Martin’s wife, is 4 sisters and witnesses said the man was the real Martin. But during the trial, the real Martin came back after being absent for 12 years, then the impostor was condamned. The american movie “Sommersby” is inspired by this story).
I don’t believe that Michael needed a double in his private life. But a double might have been used for medias or the public and who knows, perhaps for the death ?

I have said on this forum before, that in the last 10-15 years I wasn't "following" MJ but that to me the 02 MJ ws not the real MJ -- point being as a "non-fan" for lack of a better term, I could see something wasn't right. At the time, others that I spoke to couldn't tell if there was a difference. How could I tell and others not especially since I was so involved in my own life and not paying attention to his and those that did follow his life couldn't see the difference? The answer I guess is that people see what they want to see and others that may not have a vested interest might be able to tell the difference.

Since his "death" I have been doing a lot of reading/research on him because of the strangeness surrounding 02/TII/death. It has been reported, both in credible and tabloid sources, that MJ defintely used decoys/doubles/imposters (whatever one wants to call them). He also was quite adept in disguising himself when he wanted to.

For me, I think this was done just in his public life but there is no eral way to know for sure.

Sothis wrote:I’m sure that Michael used a double and certainly several ones. I agree with you on this point.
Doubles can sometimes be more resembling to a person than the person herself.
Charlie Chaplin is said to have participate to a look alike contest (he didn’t gave his real identity of course) but he didn’t won it ! Someone else was more resembling to Charlie Chaplin than himself...
What you are talking about TheKiddNerd is a case of usurpation of identity. The story of Martin Guerre is a famous example of that (it happened in France about in 1560. A man was judge to have usurpated the identity of Martin Guerre during several years in order to inherit his father. The man lived with Martin’s wife and they had children together. Martin’s wife, is 4 sisters and witnesses said the man was the real Martin. But during the trial, the real Martin came back after being absent for 12 years, then the impostor was condamned. The american movie “Sommersby” is inspired by this story).
I don’t believe that Michael needed a double in his private life. But a double might have been used for medias or the public and who knows, perhaps for the death ?

Yes I have heard that story about Charlie Chaplin losing his lookalike competition and someone resembled him more than him himself!! I am still trying to figure that one out!!

Yes I do see what you are getting at but in the year 1560 people were very poor and probably had not many likes or dislikes as there wasn't much choice to start with and no electric lights etc etc, I could go on and on. I think maybe it might have possible then but nowadays???

IMO, I am all too certain KiddNerd didn't reveal all of the introcrocies of her families past. With that having been said when MJ started wearing the mask I was very suspect. It happened suddenly! He would never speak but shoot into a car and wave. It was so odd. Who can remember when they saw MJ without a mask? I know I can't. Who knows what he really looks like after all of these years? I think it's possible that he had someone else in a standby position. There was movie Hollywood made called Dave. MJ is brilliant and I won't ever put anything past him. Who knows what he would have done. Afterall, it was his life and we only loved and admired him from a distance. I have posted an excerpt of the movie Dave below: Keep the Faith!

Initially he got the benefit of Hollywood's doubt, with the transition to the new administration being marked by Dave (1993). As an oddly Bush-looking incumbent, Kevin Kline is shown in one of the very first scenes ogling a comely member of his staff. His look-alike, Dave (Kline also), fills in at an official function while the president does some secret service of his own with the willing secretary. In midstride the president suffers a stroke and lapses into a coma (shades of Gabriel over the White House), and Dave has to fill-in on a full time basis. What follows is a liberal wet dream of what might have been the Clinton years to come, with the ingenuous Dave warming the cockles of the first lady (Sigourney Weaver), pushing through an enlightened agenda, and pushing out the Watergate holdovers in the White House.

Harleyblonde wrote:

speechlessornot wrote:What I want to say is that , at a moment,I had a similar idea. Years ago I thought the masked and very changed Michael was not the real Michael, when, after a long time, I saw Michael again and, in spite of the natural changes, his surgeries and diseases, he seemed to me ...another person. I couldn't find the well known features I used to like so much and even the voice seemed modified and the first though was: OMG, where is Michael? I had already read about different and numerous situations when the personalities appealed to decoys for getting some peace in their life and I was sure that Michael did the same. I'd like you to understand me well...I am trying to say that I understand what TheKiddNerd want to explain. It could be possible, why not, but I'd like to believe that Michael is still alive and that there was not just a... family business. Also, some time ago I read somewhere a similar theory...Michael is dead for more years and the person dead in June is his decoy. So...don't shoot me ! Be gentle !

Yes I do understand what you are saying and it can make perfect sense and is well worth looking into more- I would not be at all surprised if the "public" MJ was not him or maybe at times not him but what I am trying to point out if you read my other posts is that TheKiddNerd said that her Great Grandfather was replaced by a substitute in the family home, slept, ate etc etc with her and her Great Grandmother and not one family member noticed the difference???? We on this forum noticed the difference in the 02 MJ and that was a public appearence and we have not lived with MJ and have not eaten, slept etc with the 02 MJ if it was a different one or the real one and we noticed a difference. See what I mean? I do not think you can substitute someone to live the life of another without the family knowing.

I can believe in decoys to throw off fans and paparazzi, but I don't believe in doubles. My thinking is that he liked the masks because it gave him a sense of mystery. Maybe it all started after he had a procedure on his face and wanted to hide it while it was healing, or maybe it started so he could send out decoys without being detected. I've see him take the mask off though. And you can see it in this video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQvw7T-MQnQ Look at the way he just whips it off.

When was Mike's last public performance where he danced? When you can say without a shadow of a doubt that was Mike performing?

Tenschi wrote:When was Mike's last public performance where he danced? When you can say without a shadow of a doubt that was Mike performing?

2001, Madison Square Garden.

Yes I'm sure I can say without a shadow of a doubt it was him performing because no one can dance or sing like Michael Jackson.

I agree. NO ONE can dance like him. Hell, I knew who the mayor was when he started dancing (Ghost). Before he started dancing I had no clue. Dancing and his hands - you cannot fool us.

Wow, I can see why you'd be paranoid if that could happen with your own grandfather. So I'm assuming you mean he was associated with the mafia? Sounds like a good movie plot!

I know Michael changed his face a lot, and we are mostly used to seeing him in the 80's and 90's, but I still think it's all been him. I don't think he'd allow a double to speak for him, never mind perform for him. Interesting theory, but I just don't buy it.

Edit: Good point about the Mayor Tenschi...it's so true!

Well! Personally, I believe in the double theory. Come on! I don't know who that was in the last child molestation trial in 03-05. He was very awkward. He's going to trial for his sentence and before he enters the courtroom he gets atop of an SUV. Even his own attorneys were taken aback by his awkward behavior. I know there were other instances but this one really stands out to me. I believe in you and Annie's theory. The only thing is that you experienced it firsthand. There was no speculation on your part you lived it. Keep the Faith!

ILuvUMoreMJ wrote:Wow, I can see why you'd be paranoid if that could happen with your own grandfather. So I'm assuming you mean he was associated with the mafia? Sounds like a good movie plot!

I know Michael changed his face a lot, and we are mostly used to seeing him in the 80's and 90's, but I still think it's all been him. I don't think he'd allow a double to speak for him, never mind perform for him. Interesting theory, but I just don't buy it.

Edit: Good point about the Mayor Tenschi...it's so true!

i agree with you ILuvUMoreMJ. it's Michael all the way, from birth to the present, and a double was used just to escape paparazzi. he might have used a double to attend events on occasion, i don't know, because the one who attended the Jesse Jackson birthday looked a lot like the O2 MJ, but i don't know. whatever, i don't think Michael would merely stay in the background and let another person reap all the accolades and fan adulation that he has worked for all his life. he's one of a kind, he performs like no other, so if a double was used, it was only up to a certain point, IMO.

NerdyKidd, that was quite a life story. i wonder how you feel about it now?

First, my thoughts on what you just informed us about your Grandfather. If it has entered your mind that the current grandfather is a double (I'm not saying your wrong-you must know because he is your grandfather), is it also possible that the current grandfather is the real grandfather and the one before him was his double. I think we must look into the reasons of the possibilities that brought about this theory. Maybe your real grandfather was in trouble and during those days, the double had to fill in for him to make everything look normal. Then when all was clear (problems were solved), your real grandfather came home and now he's living his life to the fullest with the people he loves.

Secondly, regarding Michael, I have posted many times my thoughts on this. I do believe that he has a double to fill in for him, not just one person, but maybe more. He knows that people are trying to use and abuse him. With his cleverness, he would have done so to protect himself. Maybe some of his peers/friends know of this idea of his double but sometimes IMO they don't even know who/which one is the real guy. History will tell you that great men of some nations use doubles to protect themselves. Probably, that's why the media and the people who know him (they think they do) are in such surprise as to the different changes in Michael's appearances where different conclusions come about as to his health, facial operations and they would sometimes wonder about the changes in his way of talking and mannerisms. And if Michael has to do this for himself, I think he is doing the same with his children because from the start, nobody knows what they really look like because he's been hiding their identities. So, the sudden exposure of their identity right before the supposed death makes me believe that they are not the real ones. I reiterate, nobody knows really what they look like and now the info of what they look like is just accepted. I don't want to be misunderstood - I am not saying that Prince, Paris and Blanket are not Michael's children. I believe that they are his children but to know the real identity would expose them to more danger.

In parallelism, I think you can relate to my thoughts.

TheKiddNerd never think that you are insane for thinking outside of the box. If you have money which in MJ's case he has more than any of us could ever fathom you can do anything. I never believed for one minute that he was $400 million in debt unpon his supposed passing. Definitely, a buy all of my memorable should something go awry with me ploy. If I walk into a store and see another MJ product I will just scream. Earlier this evening in Wal-Mart I saw MJ 16 month calendars for $10. They will sell like hotcakes and continue to put money into his estate. Just like the movie. The man is brilliant. What better way to get back to billionaire status versus millioniaire. I have an open mind to all that has happen, is happening and will happen. I still contend that I put nothing past MJ and what he would or would not have done. I won't speak on this any further but know that you have my full support as does Annie. Keep the Faith!

@ spider monkey
Thanks for your opinion && I like the name NerdyKidd. I should have pick that for my name. But anyways you asked how I feel now. I can truly say my paranoia has grew && I really don't trust alot of things. I now have accepted the fact that it was all done to protect himself from danger. It's still confusing && alittle creepy because you never think stuff like that will work. But one day I hope I will fully understand and be able to move on.

@ juliet
Sometimes I do stare at my grandfather. I wonder if it's really him and sometimes I ask too. He just smiles and hugs me. He tells me it's him. What you said is exactly right. I understand that the real guy had to go away for awhile and sort things out.
I believe it is possible in some way. I have tried to think outside the box on everything. But who knows we may or may not be right. I didn't misunderstand you at all. Thanks for your opinion too.

@Sweet1 Thanks for your words. Michael was pretty smart and so are you.

Sorry, I still find it hard to believe what you say about your Grandfather! Who in their right mind would live as a double for someone who thought their life was in danger? A nutter? Someone who has lost the will to live? Also if he was in danger for his life why didn't the double end up dead? Again the mannerismns of everyone are unique and to be a double for a few hours? yes. To actually live as a double in the place of someone? No, sorry. I cannot get my head round it. Wake up and have your breakfast.

Just springs to mind that when people want actual proof of something and need answers they are willing to believe anything no matter how ridiculous. And I find that sad because people on this site are hurting bad, I am but I am a realist and not guillabe at all, when I read stuff like this I just feel in utter despair.

TheKiddNerd wrote:@ Harleyblonde
I sort of agree with you on some of your points. It is hard to believe at first because you are on the outside looking in. Really, me and most of my family are really in the dark too. Like I said we don't really talk about it. After we found out they just sweep it under the rug like it never happened. I know myself is still confused. Somethings about this guy and the whole thing is still unclear to me. And to be really honest I want to know the answers to your questions too. But since you are only one that brought this to my attention. I will have to go deeper and ask more questions. I will gladly try to get answers to your questions.

And also I'm glad that you spoke your mind too . But I'm in this to find truth myself and along the way learn some things. I felt like I should share my experience and the theory I had. I also would like you and the others to know that I just felt it could be a possiblity. I'm probably not right but I just had the question on my mind....What if? It's nice to think outside the box sometimes. - Much Love && Respect

Hi and I meant absolutely no dis-respect to you but if you are telling the truth and truly this is what your family have told you-you were clearly a young child when this "supposedly" change happened then I think you need to ask yourself why has the family told you this and mislead you to believe all this. Something hs gone on and it sure ain't what they have told you! It sounds just like a movie- a make believe story and when you think in a very logical and scientific way then it is absolutely and in no way at all possible. And as I said which is the most logical thing in this tale is who in their right sane mind who had all their marbles and just happened to have an exact body, looks, smell, mannerisms, shoe size, ears, hands etc etc-(I could go on and on) would live a life for a guy for 5 years who thought he was to be bumped off? Sorry but if I believed this I would be looking for fairies at the bottom of the garden and waiting for Santa claus at Christmas. If you are being honest and have been told this by your family then you need to find out why- am sorry but under no circumstances can I even contemplate considering such an exaggerated story.
Love and Respect to you also.

"Progess is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything" - George Bernard Shaw

With that being said, I can truly say I love that you thought outside of the box and went to a higher level of thinking on this. You even had an experience, too. I know I am just an outsider looking in but if you were saying that your grandfather had any association to the mafia then it is very believeable. Being in the mafia makes you a target to many. I believe for years now that mobsters have used decoys and doubles to feel protected. I can also add that most have the money to pay for such things, too. I have also noticed you've talked to other sources beside the your grandfather. Maybe you should go to him and ask questions then it might be easier for you to explain to us and also for your self benefit too.

I am glad you shared your theory and your experience with us. I hope you continue to post more on this topic.