Not feeling very hopeful anymore

I re-watched the memorial last night. I hadn't seen it since July 7th because I knew it would be really hard. When I watched it live I was balling through the whole thing so I didn't really take notice of everyone's faces and gestures, but I made sure to do that this time. I have to say I think the pain on some of the family's faces was real. Especially at the end when Marlon was giving his speech. He seemed really genuine, and he choked up a few times with his voice breaking...especially when he asked Michael to say hi to his twin brother in heaven. Tito broke down at that point too. And when Paris spoke, I noticed Jackie in the back broke down as well. So either some of the family isn't in on the hoax, or I think he's really gone. It pains me to say that, but I just don't know anymore. Seeing Paris again (in context, and not the clip they keep playing everywhere) made me really sad. That was too real, too raw. The only thing I can think of is that the family was told later, but I can't imagine MJ letting them grieve like that for him if he's still alive. Have any of you watched the memorial again since? Please tell me if you see something different. I just don't think anyone was acting at all. Damnit.

Check this one out before losing hope:
http://souza-mjhoaxdeath-themovietheory.blogspot.com/

Okay thanks I will.

U gotta be kidding me?! After we've picked apart the memorial and after i've posted that still photo of Paris making her speech with Janet and Latoya standing behind her actually smiling n laughing you still let that bogus memorial get u down? Take a look at some of the older posts and watch mauramissesmichaels new vid and you will be convinced again!

Okay I'll go back and look at the memorial posts. I just couldn't get over the part where Marlon talks about his twin brother. I mean, would you really bring your dead brother into it? Seems so blasphemous for a religious person...especially since he didn't have to say anything at all. I watched Maura's vid...I always like them.

I don't know if you believe , but Paris's been on my mind since this morning......thinking how real she seemed at the memorial and I don't know.....if she faked it she was realllly goddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!
This still doesn't mean I believe he's gone!

I know what you mean. It really broke my heart to see her again, fiddling with her purse and touching the shared necklace she gave to her dad. I hope she was acting...and if she was she should win an academy award.

I think Paris was acting (no offense to Paris), to me Paris was pinching herself to make herself look in pain and cry. You can see that she kept putting her hand behind her back. This is JMO, don't attack me.

^ ABSOLUTELY (no need to apologize) She did a good acting job for a first time out. And besides, you can look at her earlier pics and see that she is a feisty young lady. She would NOT be all calm and sweet if she thought for a second something crazy happened to her dad.

hAAAAAY .... C'mon now,

You guys HAVE GOT TO STOP focusing on the things they want the world to focus on.

I can't bear seeing discouragement and lack of faith, especially unnecessarily. There are TOO MANY contradictions for you to just "roll over" just.like.that.

They have had to do certain things a certain way (whatever way they chose) to make this thing believable or it would be a complete waste of their extreme efforts.

In view of ALL the contradictory circumstantial evidence to disprove that a death occurred, don't hang on to one thing and ride it to death!

Put yourself in their shoes. There were (especially in the beginning) probably certain family members they did not DARE tell until AFTER the memorial for the very reason of making sure it would be believable. That may go for a few show biz friends too. It would only make PERFECT sense with so many people in a family gone their own seperate ways and not being especially close in recent years.

Michael had no way of knowing how other people (ALL his brothers and sisters) are going to "act". That's too big a risk to take.

If you do something of this magnitude, you have to make sure they "believe" what they are doing and saying. Simple. Remember when MJ did The Wiz, he said that what acting really is, is BELIEVING. Everyone doesn't know that as instintively as MJ does. With some people you can't count on their "acting". You have to make SURE they BELIEVE. That may be what they did with Marlon. Look at Marlon now! He looks not only "coping well" but HAPPY.

Please don't dive on us now! The movie said it all to me. Clues from beginning to end. Keep the Fait.

Above all else, they have had to be extremely careful. Don't forget that.

And please stop watching the "memorial" for cryin' out loud!

All in love L.O.V.E.

I said I wasn't going to feed into the negativity, but I have to say something. I agree with Red Velvet completely. Paris was acting, doing what her Daddy told her to do and she did it well for a first timer. Yes, she fumbled with her purse, but it didn't take her long to smile either. I'm sorry, but I feel those kids love their father so much they wouldn't be there practically laying in their seats chomping on gum and acting indifferent if he were really dead. They would be in tears and not be able to control their emotions especially sitting in front of their father's casket. Yes, Blanket was upset, but he's a little boy thrown before the entire world for the first time. I mean no disrespect to the children. They did their part and they did it well. As for fumbling with the necklace, I do the same thing when I'm nervous..either my earrings or my necklace. I did it all the time when I was a lector at church. It's jmo but I think it was a combination of nervousness and for effect. As I said, this is just my opinion and everyone has the right to believe or not to believe and I choose to believe.

[quote="WanaBstartnSthn]U gotta be kidding me?! After we've picked apart the memorial and after i've posted that still photo of Paris making her speech with Janet and Latoya standing behind her actually smiling n laughing you still let that bogus memorial get u down? Take a look at some of the older posts and watch mauramissesmichaels new vid and you will be convinced again![/quote]

kukdos and AMEN to that!!

There have been too many smiles for a dead person - but a lot of compassion for putting an end to a figure - like laying a mythos to rest.







And so much drama added like this "daddy doll" - and don't forget the elephants of the circus. I believe Michael was really really proud of his kids.
It was a big show. ;-)

God, I hope you're right. Thanks for the photos.

Grace wrote:There have been too many smiles for a dead person - but a lot of compassion for putting an end to a figure - like laying a mythos to rest.







And so much drama added like this "daddy doll" - and don't forget the elephants of the circus. I believe Michael was really really proud of his kids.
It was a big show. ;-)

The biggest show on earth! Was there a directors booth across from the stage or a balcony? Paris looks up a lot and I'm wondering if that is where she was getting her cues from?

^ BINGO.

I wish people would just quit watching "death talk" and it will be a lot easier to step back and see. Think about the things you are saying are making you feel badly. Just think about everything in detail...not just at first "sight".

4evermichael71 wrote:I said I wasn't going to feed into the negativity, but I have to say something. I agree with Red Velvet completely. Paris was acting, doing what her Daddy told her to do and she did it well for a first timer. Yes, she fumbled with her purse, but it didn't take her long to smile either. I'm sorry, but I feel those kids love their father so much they wouldn't be there practically laying in their seats chomping on gum and acting indifferent if he were really dead. They would be in tears and not be able to control their emotions especially sitting in front of their father's casket. Yes, Blanket was upset, but he's a little boy thrown before the entire world for the first time. I mean no disrespect to the children. They did their part and they did it well. As for fumbling with the necklace, I do the same thing when I'm nervous..either my earrings or my necklace. I did it all the time when I was a lector at church. It's jmo but I think it was a combination of nervousness and for effect. As I said, this is just my opinion and everyone has the right to believe or not to believe and I choose to believe.

I agree with everything you said too. Everyone knows that children who lose parents go in GRIEF not "good acting".

I'm sorry for sounding mean, I seriously just don't see how anyone cannot see that.

"she fumbled with her necklace MJ must be dead". I mean just think about that for a minute C'mon now.

I assure everyone, if those children's amazing father was gone forever there is no way you would see them in anything BUT PURE GRIEF. THAT my friends is human nature. Show business or not. Look at all the other funerals you have seen. Did you really have to LOOK for "signs" of sadness and sincerity. C'mon!!!

^ BINGO.

And the more I think about it, the more I really think Marlon was acting anyway. There still are people they probably did not tell though, I mean, think about it. You just have to make sure of certain things until it is safe to let people you care about know what's really going on.

I wish people would just quit watching "death talk" and it will be a lot easier to step back and see. Think about the things you are saying are making you feel badly. Just think about everything in detail...not just at first "sight".

4evermichael71 wrote:I said I wasn't going to feed into the negativity, but I have to say something. I agree with Red Velvet completely. Paris was acting, doing what her Daddy told her to do and she did it well for a first timer. Yes, she fumbled with her purse, but it didn't take her long to smile either. I'm sorry, but I feel those kids love their father so much they wouldn't be there practically laying in their seats chomping on gum and acting indifferent if he were really dead. They would be in tears and not be able to control their emotions especially sitting in front of their father's casket. Yes, Blanket was upset, but he's a little boy thrown before the entire world for the first time. I mean no disrespect to the children. They did their part and they did it well. As for fumbling with the necklace, I do the same thing when I'm nervous..either my earrings or my necklace. I did it all the time when I was a lector at church. It's jmo but I think it was a combination of nervousness and for effect. As I said, this is just my opinion and everyone has the right to believe or not to believe and I choose to believe.

I agree with everything you said too. Everyone knows that children who lose parents go in GRIEF not "good acting".

I'm sorry for sounding mean, I seriously just don't see how anyone cannot see that.

"she fumbled with her necklace MJ must be dead". I mean just think about that for a minute C'mon now.

I assure everyone, if those children's amazing father was gone forever there is no way you would see them in anything BUT PURE GRIEF. THAT my friends is human nature. Show business or not. Look at all the other funerals you have seen. Did you really have to LOOK for "signs" of sadness and sincerity. C'mon!!!

Thanks for posting those pics!! That is NOT a family in bereavement. Especially the kids. As MJ always says, KIDS TELL THE TRUTH and a picture is worth 100000000000000 words!!!

After Paris' "assignment" was over, did you notice how she went BACK TO NORMAL!!?????????????

Red Velvet wrote:^ BINGO.

I wish people would just quit watching "death talk" and it will be a lot easier to step back and see. Think about the things you are saying are making you feel badly. Just think about everything in detail...not just at first "sight".

4evermichael71 wrote:I said I wasn't going to feed into the negativity, but I have to say something. I agree with Red Velvet completely. Paris was acting, doing what her Daddy told her to do and she did it well for a first timer. Yes, she fumbled with her purse, but it didn't take her long to smile either. I'm sorry, but I feel those kids love their father so much they wouldn't be there practically laying in their seats chomping on gum and acting indifferent if he were really dead. They would be in tears and not be able to control their emotions especially sitting in front of their father's casket. Yes, Blanket was upset, but he's a little boy thrown before the entire world for the first time. I mean no disrespect to the children. They did their part and they did it well. As for fumbling with the necklace, I do the same thing when I'm nervous..either my earrings or my necklace. I did it all the time when I was a lector at church. It's jmo but I think it was a combination of nervousness and for effect. As I said, this is just my opinion and everyone has the right to believe or not to believe and I choose to believe.

I agree with everything you said too. Everyone knows that children who lose parents go in GRIEF not "good acting".

I'm sorry for sounding mean, I seriously just don't see how anyone cannot see that.

"she fumbled with her necklace MJ must be dead". I mean just think about that for a minute C'mon now.

I assure everyone, if those children's amazing father was gone forever there is no way you would see them in anything BUT PURE GRIEF. THAT my friends is human nature. Show business or not. Look at all the other funerals you have seen. Did you really have to LOOK for "signs" of sadness and sincerity. C'mon!!!

Well said! I taped over the memorial. Why depress myself on purpose? As a matter of fact I recorded over the fake funeral too..no sense keeping what isn't real. I just don't understand the self-inflicted misery? I just wish it would stop! It's not healthy for the self-inflictors and not for those they try to bring into the web.

4evermichael71 wrote: Well said! I taped over the memorial. Why depress myself on purpose? As a matter of fact I recorded over the fake funeral too..no sense keeping what isn't real. I just don't understand the self-inflicted misery? I just wish it would stop! It's not healthy for the self-inflictors and not for those they try to bring into the web.

Well I clearly posted this in the "for those having an off day" thread. I'm not trying to bring anyone into my "web", so just skip this section if it bothers you. I want to be realistic about this, not blindly believe...that's just silly. Yes there are many inconsistencies, but he could really be dead just as easily. I posted this so people could boost me up, not tear me down. Thanks anyway.

^ ok I didn't realize it was "an off day" thread because the scroll bar doesn't show the thread category, but that's fair enough. Everyone has those now and then for sure. Just try and be encouraged by what we're saying since you're having an off day. *hugs* It will get better. This I KNOW.

4evermichael71 wrote:

Red Velvet wrote:^ BINGO.

I wish people would just quit watching "death talk" and it will be a lot easier to step back and see. Think about the things you are saying are making you feel badly. Just think about everything in detail...not just at first "sight".

4evermichael71 wrote:I said I wasn't going to feed into the negativity, but I have to say something. I agree with Red Velvet completely. Paris was acting, doing what her Daddy told her to do and she did it well for a first timer. Yes, she fumbled with her purse, but it didn't take her long to smile either. I'm sorry, but I feel those kids love their father so much they wouldn't be there practically laying in their seats chomping on gum and acting indifferent if he were really dead. They would be in tears and not be able to control their emotions especially sitting in front of their father's casket. Yes, Blanket was upset, but he's a little boy thrown before the entire world for the first time. I mean no disrespect to the children. They did their part and they did it well. As for fumbling with the necklace, I do the same thing when I'm nervous..either my earrings or my necklace. I did it all the time when I was a lector at church. It's jmo but I think it was a combination of nervousness and for effect. As I said, this is just my opinion and everyone has the right to believe or not to believe and I choose to believe.

I agree with everything you said too. Everyone knows that children who lose parents go in GRIEF not "good acting".

I'm sorry for sounding mean, I seriously just don't see how anyone cannot see that.

"she fumbled with her necklace MJ must be dead". I mean just think about that for a minute C'mon now.

I assure everyone, if those children's amazing father was gone forever there is no way you would see them in anything BUT PURE GRIEF. THAT my friends is human nature. Show business or not. Look at all the other funerals you have seen. Did you really have to LOOK for "signs" of sadness and sincerity. C'mon!!!

Well said! I taped over the memorial. Why depress myself on purpose? As a matter of fact I recorded over the fake funeral too..no sense keeping what isn't real. I just don't understand the self-inflicted misery? I just wish it would stop! It's not healthy for the self-inflictors and not for those they try to bring into the web.

You're right. The thing we all have to remember no matter what is that we are in this forum because we know that we have a CHOICE which we have all given ourselves by digging deeper, looking closer and paying real good attention. I applaud you for erasing those false "funeral" and "memorial" tapes. That took courage and resolve.

ILuvUMoreMJ wrote:

4evermichael71 wrote: Well said! I taped over the memorial. Why depress myself on purpose? As a matter of fact I recorded over the fake funeral too..no sense keeping what isn't real. I just don't understand the self-inflicted misery? I just wish it would stop! It's not healthy for the self-inflictors and not for those they try to bring into the web.

Well I clearly posted this in the "for those having an off day" thread. I'm not trying to bring anyone into my "web", so just skip this section if it bothers you. I want to be realistic about this, not blindly believe...that's just silly. Yes there are many inconsistencies, but he could really be dead just as easily. I posted this so people could boost me up, not tear me down. Thanks anyway.

I will leave it at this:
I apologize if you think I was tearing you down, that wasn't my intent. I just feel it's only hurtful to keep watching it. BUT that's me and of course you're free to do as you wish and what is best for you.
I don't blindly believe. In the furthest corner of my mind is a place that knows the other side of the coin so to speak. If he is gone, I feel he's better off because apparently no one around him gave a damn..not even the ones who are supposed to be investigating a murder. There could have been an arrest on suspicion right away and yet nothing...So yeah, there is the distinct possibility he has passed on and his death will be one of the biggest urban legends of all time.
Again, I apologize if you felt you were been attacked. You weren't, I am just worried about what it does to the human psyche.

I appreciate your response and I'm very sorry you've been going through such a hard time. It's just frustrating for me because I really straddle the fence between believing he's alive and dead. It seems every time someone posts something that could potentially quell the hoax theory, either everyone ignores the post, or they tell them not to be silly, not to be such a downer, and keep the faith. I want to investigate everything, whether good or bad, so I can find the truth. If everyone here believes 100% that he's alive, then maybe this should just be called a "Michael's Alive" board, where nothing that could dispute it is ever posted. I'm not saying you guys are wrong to believe what you want, and in some ways I wish I had your faith, but I don't see how this can be an investigation into what really happened if every negative clue is brushed under the rug. No hard feelings...just had to say my peace.

Well, I'm going to take a big chance on saying this (lest it get ignored, dismissed or whatever but I don't care LOL) and I cannot aplogize for it because it is what is true for me at this point and if it helps someone somehow then that would be good.

The way I'm seeing this, there are absolutely NOT two ways this can actually be. I do not feel that MJ could just as easily be dead as well as alive, not by a LONG SHOT.

I know that is a bold statement to make but its for what to me are very good reasons. I came on this forum to get some perspective, not just to make myself "feel" good, so that at some point I could end up feeling bad again. I come here to get reinforcement for common sense in a world where believing what we see is the illogical norm.

Don't get me wrong, I know we all have those days when we are so frustrated at not knowing what's going on and the mind can lean toward believing the original "story" but again, my point for coming here is to get a reality check.

I just want to remind us that from day 1, there has not been but 1 consistancy and that is that MJ is dead.

That is the ONLY thing that has not changed. EVERYTHING ELSE is inconsistent and that fact alone is enough to tell me that the original story is just a "story".

I will list just a few things and not ramble on and on about the clues I saw in the movie (unless someone PMs me and asks) or the inconsistencies here, there and EVERYWHERE because its utterly clear to me that this is a simply some kind of a RUSE if not a "hoax" - just not exactly sure what kind yet. That is where I stand.

I come here to this forum to get reinforcement of at least that one fact (that its some sort of ruse) because the world around me is telling me another "story" than the truths I see for myself. To name just a very few (due to time) them being:

1) when a person dies, there is nothing simpler in the world to see clearly with the exception of the fact that the only other thing that may be seen more clearly is when a person is born. this is my common sense at work and hasn't failed me yet.
2) when a person who dies is from a enormous family, many members will grieve deeply, especially if the person was particularly beloved by all - that's just a numbers game - there will be some who will be unconsolable - completely - and some, for a very, very long time in impenetrable grief and sorrow
3) when a person dies and they had young children of the "age of understanding" those children are in deep deep deep GRIEF for a long time, too, in fact it is a pain they basically never fully recover from in an entire lifetime, let alone 2 WEEKS!
4) the man in the ambulance photo was in his 30s with curly, natural hair. NONE of the hair in the movie matched it - the movie hair was the "Blood on the Dancefloor" wig and another wonderful wig that looked like the Dangerous era except with more hair (unlike the natural hair looking ambulance pic)
5) the man in the ambulance photo was clearly very HEALTHY, ALIVE (BROWNISH SKINNED) and NOT FRAIL or SKINNY in weight AT ALL - BOTTOM LINE - it was NOT June, 2009 Michael Jackson
6) the movie said EVERYTHING about this RUSE if people would pay attention and not go into it "looking" for "clues". The "clues" were all over the film, in fact the biggest clue was the film itself. It was not merely concert rehearsal footage, it was the film Michael promised when he said he was pioneering film making, doing something unique that had not been done before (such as touting rehearsal footage as a film) - he said it in 2005
7) Michael told the dancers that they were embarking on an adventure, a series of 50 concerts is not "an adventure" after the first one, its a grueling, grinding job and any good director will tell a cast just that, not mislead them with mere words like "adventure" because they have to make sure the dancers are fully mentally prepared, he was talking about the film itself

I'll leave this last one just for fun since MJ put it in there ..

Munson

I could go on but I can't .... I have to go .... please .... just keep the faith because there is a LOT more reason to, than not to

....forget what we saw on TV - IT WAS FOR A PURPOSE. It will come clear in due season...and needless to say this is jmo as if no one already knew that but I know ppl like to hear it

Thanks for that Red Velvet. I will try as hard as I can to hold on and keep the faith. I'm a person that deals in facts, so it's hard for me to believe in a lot of things you guys seem to. I'm just a cynic by nature, and when someone tells me something that's hard to fathom and has no proof, I have to question it. It doesn't mean I think the person is wrong, just that I need something concrete to back it up. I believe in the hoax theory because nothing adds up with this case at all. And of course, I want him to be alive more than anything. I've always thought the Elvis believers are nuts though, so I'm not sure what I'm doing here sometimes.

But I'm curious what proof you all would accept to believe that MJ is actually gone? If you don't believe in autopsies, funerals, or death certificates, and think everyone who is close to him is in on the hoax feeding us lies...I'm wondering what it would take? I'm not even sure for myself right now, but I think it's a question we should all ask ourselves. How long will you all hold on if he doesn't come back?

ILuvUMoreMJ wrote:Thanks for that Red Velvet. I will try as hard as I can to hold on and keep the faith. I'm a person that deals in facts, so it's hard for me to believe in a lot of things you guys seem to. I'm just a cynic by nature, and when someone tells me something that's hard to fathom and has no proof, I have to question it. It doesn't mean I think the person is wrong, just that I need something concrete to back it up. I believe in the hoax theory because nothing adds up with this case at all. And of course, I want him to be alive more than anything. I've always thought the Elvis believers are nuts though, so I'm not sure what I'm doing here sometimes.

But I'm curious what proof you all would accept to believe that MJ is actually gone? If you don't believe in autopsies, funerals, or death certificates, and think everyone who is close to him is in on the hoax feeding us lies...I'm wondering what it would take? I'm not even sure for myself right now, but I think it's a question we should all ask ourselves. How long will you all hold on if he doesn't come back?

I just got a message to share this video. I think ti applies here and I hope it lifts you up a bit.

Hello ILuvUMoreMJ,

It's during the memorial that it first occured me that maybe the whole thing was staged. When I began to watch the memorial, the idea that Michael could have faked his death hadn't even occured to me.
The fact I was looking more devastated than the family (and I was not one of his diehard fans) hasn't even shocked me yet. But, at the end of the ceremony, I saw the casket left, and I had that thought : "maybe it is empty". And another idea followed : "I bet we won't see it leave the Staples". And when the coffin vanished, I was sure there was something wrong. And I began to think about the whole thing, and I remembered one of the brothers telling that Michael was 100% in the casket. How weird. It's not an expression you use, even after an autopsy. That "100%" was unnatural and sounded like a lie. The delayed burrial turned me even more suspicious. And it's how I began to spend a lot of time on the internet, trying to get 2+2 to equal 4.