Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th.

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Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Empty Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th.

Post by Rach on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:17 pm

Hey Guys.

I first of all want to start out by saying this is just a THEORY which myself and Bidoska have spent many hours working on. We don't know that is the absolute truth and to be honest, we never will do but after spending many hours researching videos, concerts and photographs we have come to the following conclusion. You don't have to believe and it and we won't justify it to to anyone. You are free to make your own mind up on it. We believe that Michael Jackson did indeed hoax his death or vanish but it wasn't on June 25th and to understand where we are coming from you need to go back to 1993.

I posted a thread yesterday with Michael's photos on them because I wanted to see what peoples reactions were to Michael's changing appreance throughout the years. Many of you came to the conclusion that it wasn't the same man in the latter part of the pictures and this is the same lines that me and Bidoska have been working on. Here is the thread so you can have a look at it.

https://mjkit.forumotion.net/pictures-hoax-f11/let-s-play-a-game-t1504.htm

Now you will notice that after the 1992 picture, Michael starts to look like a different person in almost each picture. As The Little White Bird pointed out no amount of plastic surgery can change your apperance that much and there will always be some similarities to be able to establish that it's the same person. Now after 1995, me and Bidoksa don't see any evidence that this is the same person. The nose changes too many times, as do the cheek bones and have a look at the eyes. In some photos they look small and closed while in others they look big, like back in the BAD days. Also notice how from 2006 it was difficult to get a photo of Michael without his shades on. From the above can you see where I am going with this? The man we have bene seeing all these years was NOT the real Michael Jackson but a very convincing double.

Now let's go back to 1993 when me and Bidoska believe that all of this happened. This was the time when Michael was accused of child abuse by Jordan Chandler. I cannot even begin to imagine what that would have been like for Michael. Now if I place myself in his shoes, I would want to settle the matter as soon as possible and get the heck out of dodge. Let's entertain the idea for one moment that's what happened. However, Michael is the most famous man on the planet and wouldn't be able to just "dissapear". He would be hounded wherever he went. So he decided he needed someone to fill in for him and this is where the idea of a body double comes in. No-one heard of Michael for many years after 1993. He retreated to his home and didn't do any public performances, which would have given the double adequate time to perfect his mannerisms, such as his voice and the way Michael conducts himself.

Have a look at the following videos and tell me what you see. The first is a performance of "Smooth Criminal" in Mexico in 1993 from the "Dangerous" tour. The second is from the 3oth anniversary show where Michael is performing "You Rock My World". I chose these two because Michael is signing live. As much as I love Michael he rarely sang live and I wanted to point out the difference in his voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07v6tB_OLR8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENHn9UvjPrY

I know that there are 8 years in the two performances but look at the mannerisms. Have you ever wondered why in later years Michael covered his mouth a lot when he was performing? Almost like he was aware that people were judging him? I have never seen this happen before 1993, only after. Now back to the live vocals. In the first video Michael seems happy, relaxed and even though dancing a vigorous routine he is in control of his voice. In the second, he seems out of breath and not in control of his vocals. I don't mean to be rude so please don't think I am! As I mentioned above, Michael often lip synched even though he had an amazing voice. Why would he feel the need to do that? Both myself and Bidoska feel that someone who knew they couldn't pull of Michael's amazing vocal talent would feel the need to do so.

Now lets come to 2003 and the LWMJ documentary. I am sure many of you have seen this but lets take a step back and look at these two different pieces of footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7RDCDLLIm8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxzhD6jgNIY

To me they look like different people. The person in the second piece of footage looks bloated and while not fat, looks bigger in shape to the person who is the first video. While one can argue that this is shot over 8 months and a person will change, if you watch the whole thing you will see that there are several times thoughout the whole thing where Michael looks different. I would urge you to watch it again with fresh eyes! It's almost like Michael is constantly changing.

I want to come back to a comment that The Little White Bird left on the picture thread about how Michael looked different inbetween the "Dangerous" and "HIStory" tours but like the same person on the tours. I agree with him 100%. I believe that the real Michael HAD to perform on the tour because he knew there was no way he could fool anyone into believing that a subpar version was him. This ties in with "This Is It" and maybe why they never went ahead. Again the real Michael knows that no-one can do him justice and that a fake will be spotted straight away. Have a look at this footage from the 2006 WMAs. It's Michae singing "We Are The World".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp3F5IUrl3A

Firstly look at how he walks on stage, much like the O2 man. Also he only sings a few lines but listen to them. The voice is VERY breathy and not Michael like at all. I will let you draw your own conclusion to this. Also pause at 2:11 and have a look at the facial features. Small eyes and dark big lips. Not like the Michael we are used to seeing.

If we look at the facts that are detailed above it seems to indicate one thing. Even if "Michael" did die on June 25th it may not have been THE Michael Jackson, the one we all grew up with. So who's to say that Michael isn't going to make a come back?!

As I said above, this wasn't intended to hurt or offend anyone and if you don't believe it simply move on and don't comment and myself and Bidoska will not justify our findings. However I think we should keep an open mind as to EVERY possibility in this case because as we have seen it's far from simple.

Thanks for reading Smile

Rachel and Bidoska.


Last edited by Banessa on Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Sticky)
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Post by mjthelegendlives on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:42 pm

Rachel Bidoska, very interesting and good job. Thanks for taking the time to analyze and posting your theory.

*Edited twice* Sorry Rachel, Bid...Giving a second thought to what I had written, but this isnt the thread to discuss it...Smile again thanks girls


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Post by marsheliamorgan on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:45 pm

ok,so let me see if i am on the right track here,in the smooth criminal (fake michael?) on 30th anniversary (real michael?) and then 2 different michaels on two different parts of bashir ?and real at 2006 right?sorry i am kind of thick headed
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Post by Rach on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:51 pm

marsheliamorgan wrote:ok,so let me see if i am on the right track here,in the smooth criminal (fake michael?) on 30th anniversary (real michael?) and then 2 different michaels on two different parts of bashir ?and real at 2006 right?sorry i am kind of thick headed

Other way round Sweetie! We know it was the real Michael during "Smooth Criminal" but believe it to be a fake one in "You Rock My World". Also a fake in 2006 and as for the MB documentary, I'm at a loss about that but I DON'T believe they are the same person.
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Post by hungry on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:55 pm

I agree that there a slight differences in the Living With Michael Jackson documentary... he gets a bit bigger.
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Post by Human_nature on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:56 pm

Wherever. Whatever. Have a nice day."


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Post by DreamsComeTrue on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:57 pm

marsheliamorgan wrote:ok,so let me see if i am on the right track here,in the smooth criminal (fake michael?) on 30th anniversary (real michael?) and then 2 different michaels on two different parts of bashir ?and real at 2006 right?sorry i am kind of thick headed

Well, it's all the other way!

Interesting theory about 2 Michael Jackson!

But I wonder, if in the last years we saw the double, where is Michael Jackson?

You two might be right, but since I've analized a lot of pictures during the last 3 months(almost), in my opinion he really did used doubles, but not for the big events!
And he utilized he shades in the last years because he had spots of vitiligo on his left eye!
Oh Gosh, I don't know what to believe...
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Post by CantStopLovingU on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:58 pm

Rach wrote:
marsheliamorgan wrote:ok,so let me see if i am on the right track here,in the smooth criminal (fake michael?) on 30th anniversary (real michael?) and then 2 different michaels on two different parts of bashir ?and real at 2006 right?sorry i am kind of thick headed

Other way round Sweetie! We know it was the real Michael during "Smooth Criminal" but believe it to be a fake one in "You Rock My World". Also a fake in 2006 and as for the MB documentary, I'm at a loss about that but I DON'T believe they are the same person.

You know I never thought about that - but the Rock my World Video is the only one that really looks off - BUT I did an analysis on his face, specifically the distance between his eyes which is wide, and in every picture I could find from when he was a child, the distance was the same ratio. You can try it yourself.
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Post by Harleyblonde on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:36 pm

WOW- you have really got me thinking, not sure about the Bashire interview documentary, will have to watch again a few times (dont you think Bashire would have spotted different MJs?) but is definately not MJ on the WMAs 2006 film, he cannot seem to sing and as you said his face frozen at at 2.11 is not right in the eyes and lips. There are other things that I cannot quite put explain-is not the chemistry and presence of the real Michael. Well done, you two have certainly had your thinking caps on!
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Post by hungry on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:48 pm

At the 2006 WMAs Michael looked generally the same, but his eyes were just smaller.
in my opinion.
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Post by Guest on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:48 pm

As Ive always said Rach, MJ has not been around for years!!

Thats all I can say!! E cas and others (doubles) have played very very good parts
in MJs life...MJ need them!

Well done Rach..By only researching and reading will we ,maybe find out the truth

but then again, if we are not ment to ....then so be it!
Thats MJS choice and right...

And the Plot Thickens,,,, Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_sunny
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Post by Guest on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:54 pm

They are ALL Michael. Every singel link.
Michael havent used a imposter at any of his concerts or live performences ever.
He has seen them perform live, but never on one of his shows, I mean insteadt of him.

Its also Michael at LWMJ In all of them
BTW That "Rock my world performence" I got sick in my stomack watching it. But it still sat me on fire aswell.
Michael is to damn hot, when he does this performence. HOLY JESUS

Michael has changed ofcause, we all do,, as we get older, but not to the unregonizeble.


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Post by GirlSaturday on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:01 pm

Based on the theory, how do you think that the real Michael Jackson looks in 2009?
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Post by Give.In.To.Me on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:02 pm

Rachel...all I have to say is I totally agree with you! Oddly enough...Banessa and I were also researching this exact same theory the other night with many videos and we both came to the conclusion you have. All I can say now is.....Where the F is the real MJ???
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Post by Rach on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:10 pm

GirlSaturday wrote:Based on the theory, how do you think that the real Michael Jackson looks in 2009?

I don't but that's my point, he could be anyone!

I forgot to mention it above but me and Bidoska feel that Michael is going back to the "Liberian Girl" look because of all the references to it since the "death".
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Post by EarthAngel90 on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:14 pm

I am lost - 2 different Michael is what I am comprending ... but they switch on different concerts ..... Please Explain .....
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Post by Human_nature on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:16 pm

Wherever. Whatever. Have a nice day."


Last edited by Human_nature on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:26 pm

Give.In.To.Me wrote:Rachel...all I have to say is I totally agree with you! Oddly enough...Banessa and I were also researching this exact same theory the other night with many videos and we both came to the conclusion you have. All I can say now is.....Where the F is the real MJ???


He is resting, I think he needs that for when he desides to return.. Its Michael in all of those links... Every singel one of them. Ive watched them all over and over again.

I will bet my house on this. It is Michael.
THIS IS IT
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Post by fa on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:34 pm

Hi,
This is my first post here
I'm from Brazil.
I was at Tey Don't Care About Us Making in Rio de Janeiro.
I went into Dona Marta Slam just for seing MJ. It was the crasiest thing I've ever donne in my life!
I Couldn't come close but it was magical!!!
Hope to be able to help, hope to make friends.
Sorry about my bad english. Smile
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Post by DreamsComeTrue on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:35 pm

Human_nature wrote:I know I don't ahve the right to tell my opinion, but, it's stronger than me, sorry. You don't have to read or comment about my comment ... Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_clown

Your theory means, he didn't have kids...so the kids we see today are an illusion.... Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect hmmmm, nope. Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_study

Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect

We already live in an illusion...so what's the difference?!
Just I don't agree that I'm inlove with the body and face of the impersonator, and I'm inlove with Michael's music and dance...NOT REALLY

There is just one Michael Jackson! With good days and with bad days...

Sorry, just my opinion... Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_rolleyes
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Post by GirlSaturday on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:36 pm

Welcome.
Congratulations...you came much closer than any of us did. Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Lol

fa wrote:Hi,
This is my first post here
I'm from Brazil.
I was at Tey Don't Care About Us Making in Rio de Janeiro.
I went into Dona Marta Slam just for seing MJ. It was the crasiest thing I've ever donne in my life!
I Couldn't come close but it was magical!!!
Hope to be able to help, hope to make friends.
Sorry about my bad english. Smile
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Post by Guest on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:39 pm

Human_natureInteresting !!! Yes a very highly possibility,I have ideas about that also.....but thats for another time.
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Post by DreamsComeTrue on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:40 pm

fa wrote:Hi,
This is my first post here
I'm from Brazil.
I was at Tey Don't Care About Us Making in Rio de Janeiro.
I went into Dona Marta Slam just for seing MJ. It was the crasiest thing I've ever donne in my life!
I Couldn't come close but it was magical!!!
Hope to be able to help, hope to make friends.
Sorry about my bad english. Smile

Welcome to our family!
All we ask here is respect...so if you do that you'll make many friends!
Don't worry about your english, is quit good!
Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_sunny
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Post by Truth_or_Dare on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:41 pm

I think he used doubles too but not at shows. I saw him in concert in 1996; it was live and it was MJ! And i saw the 30th aniv. several times and it looks to me like there was a problem with him mic. He was holding his hands over it for a better sound and he even signaled "up" several times. For the volume on his mic. And if i remember correctly he even said something about having a sound problem during the show.
And one more thing: of course I don't know Michael personally but I can tell you from an artist's point of view that artist have big egos when it comes to their work. And the bigger the artist the bigger the ego. ( And I mean ego in the best way possible Razz ) I don't think he would have let any double of his perform for him! I just don't belive that!
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Post by Sweet1 on Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:21 pm

DreamsComeTrue wrote:
Human_nature wrote:I know I don't ahve the right to tell my opinion, but, it's stronger than me, sorry. You don't have to read or comment about my comment ... Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_clown

Your theory means, he didn't have kids...so the kids we see today are an illusion.... Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect hmmmm, nope. Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_study

Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect

We already live in an illusion...so what's the difference?!
Just I don't agree that I'm inlove with the body and face of the impersonator, and I'm inlove with Michael's music and dance...NOT REALLY

There is just one Michael Jackson! With good days and with bad days...

Sorry, just my opinion... Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_rolleyes


You have that right. As far as I am concerned MJ's entire life was an illusion. Who knew about this? Who married LMP and Debbie? Who were the kids so in love with as their father? Perhaps Moonwalker and Liberian girl is what MJ looks like today! Who knows? I do belief MJ used impersonators for events and such but to have a double replace him for over 10 yrs is a little too far fetched for me. Although with MJ anything could be possible. I know without a doubt he has kept me entertained over the past 3 months. Keep the Faith!
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Post by Human_nature on Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:22 pm

Wherever. Whatever. Have a nice day."


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Post by DreamsComeTrue on Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:33 pm

Human_nature wrote:
DreamsComeTrue wrote:
Human_nature wrote:I know I don't ahve the right to tell my opinion, but, it's stronger than me, sorry. You don't have to read or comment about my comment ... Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_clown

Your theory means, he didn't have kids...so the kids we see today are an illusion.... Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect hmmmm, nope. Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_study

Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Suspect

We already live in an illusion...so what's the difference?!
Just I don't agree that I'm inlove with the body and face of the impersonator, and I'm inlove with Michael's music and dance...NOT REALLY

There is just one Michael Jackson! With good days and with bad days...

Sorry, just my opinion... Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_rolleyes

and I agree, I think you misunderstood my comment.

Michael is Michael, and his kids are REAL!

I actually have the same opinion as you do! The illusion i'm talking about was started by MJ! That's what I'm saying he has bad days and good days...sometimes he's briliant, sometimes makes mistakes....
But still, it's MJ!
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Post by CantStopLovingU on Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:53 pm

I know that there are 8 years in the two performances but look at the mannerisms. Have you ever wondered why in later years Michael covered his mouth a lot when he was performing? Almost like he was aware that people were judging him? I have never seen this happen before 1993, only after. Now back to the live vocals. In the first video Michael seems happy, relaxed and even though dancing a vigorous routine he is in control of his voice. In the second, he seems out of breath and not in control of his vocals. I don't mean to be rude so please don't think I am! As I mentioned above, Michael often lip synched even though he had an amazing voice. Why would he feel the need to do that? Both myself and Bidoska feel that someone who knew they couldn't pull of Michael's amazing vocal talent would feel the need to do so.

Rachel - I so noticed this. Michael sang live up until the mid 90's and then he was lip synching during the tours that followed. I also noticed the mouth covering alot, and I have never quite been able to figure out why he was doing that.

Remember this is the period that the Informant says Jonathan came on the scene in performaces, interviews, ect right in front of our faces.

Then again, I just dont think that Michael had others performing for him on stage or in the studio. What he did could not be copied by anyone, I dont care how good of a double. If Jonathan is real, I dont think he totally took over Michaels life. Thats the only thing that is hard for me with this theory. IDK - I think the double is there but I dont think any of us will be able to know to what extent. This is so hard. For some reason even the worst pics of Michael that you pointed out in the mid 90's, with the cheeks, and eyes ect look more like HIM then the MJ of the later years IE: the WMA awards. Thats the Michael that doesnt seem like the real one to me. Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_sad

To me they look like different people. The person in the second piece of footage looks bloated and while not fat, looks bigger in shape to the person who is the first video. While one can argue that this is shot over 8 months and a person will change, if you watch the whole thing you will see that there are several times thoughout the whole thing where Michael looks different. I would urge you to watch it again with fresh eyes! It's almost like Michael is constantly changing.

I noticed this too, and always thought that the MJ at the end, in the red shirt - his stomach and posture didnt look like the MJ we saw earlier with Bashir. That has always bugged the heck out of me!

Remember the Informant words ... About a hoaxed life. I have to go back and read them again, but he said it wasnt MJ at the O2 and a very strange line about a hoaxed life.

I think you have some very valid points Rachel - and so many were so quick to dismiss what the Informant said, but the very small eyes like you pointed out, ect just doesnt add up.
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Post by mjssoulmate on Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:00 pm

MyBelovedMJ wrote:They are ALL Michael. Every singel link.
Michael havent used a imposter at any of his concerts or live performences ever.
He has seen them perform live, but never on one of his shows, I mean insteadt of him.

Its also Michael at LWMJ In all of them
BTW That "Rock my world performence" I got sick in my stomack watching it. But it still sat me on fire aswell.
Michael is to damn hot, when he does this performence. HOLY JESUS

Michael has changed ofcause, we all do,, as we get older, but not to the unregonizeble.


I totally agree with you. It is Michael every time and every time he is the hottest thing I've ever seen.
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Post by Banessa on Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:59 am

Rachel and Bid! You guys did and awesome job researching and posting this theory! Im glad that Im not the only one who noticed this!. As GITM mentioned she and I were researching the same thing and were left in shock to realize the differences through out the years! There is just no way...One person can change that much! Yes! I agree with age comes change but Shamoan! How can there be so many changes and at times during the same year???

I love Michael with all my heart and I wouldn't blame him or judge him if indeed he had a double "Jonathan" all these years. He must have his good reasons. But please all I want to know is that Im not going crazy because I can clearly see the difference! I agree with CANTSTOPLOVINGU in regards to the Bashir interview! I have a feeling MJ pulled one off on all of us and specially on Bashir during his interview.

On the Bashir interviews and the links you provided you can clearly Notice how his appearance changes big time. Not only his face looks different but his mannerism the first MJ looks shy and very childlike behavior. Whereas, the second MJ seems well poised and seems to have control of the interview and the camera. To me and GITM the differences were quite obvious and from what I read from CANTSTOPLOVINGU's post she seem to agree with the differences as well! Now my question is how can so many of us see the same thing without having been pointed out to them? Its all too weird! But you guys did a great job! I applaud you for your work! Smile All I Have left to say is:

I WANT MY MICHAEL BACK!!!I love you Wink
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Post by J.J_loves_MJ on Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:15 am

Rach wrote:Hey Guys.

I first of all want to start out by saying this is just a THEORY which myself and Bidoska have spent many hours working on. We don't know that is the absolute truth and to be honest, we never will do but after spending many hours researching videos, concerts and photographs we have come to the following conclusion. You don't have to believe and it and we won't justify it to to anyone. You are free to make your own mind up on it. We believe that Michael Jackson did indeed hoax his death or vanish but it wasn't on June 25th and to understand where we are coming from you need to go back to 1993.

I posted a thread yesterday with Michael's photos on them because I wanted to see what peoples reactions were to Michael's changing appreance throughout the years. Many of you came to the conclusion that it wasn't the same man in the latter part of the pictures and this is the same lines that me and Bidoska have been working on. Here is the thread so you can have a look at it.

https://mjkit.forumotion.net/pictures-hoax-f11/let-s-play-a-game-t1504.htm

Now you will notice that after the 1992 picture, Michael starts to look like a different person in almost each picture. As The Little White Bird pointed out no amount of plastic surgery can change your apperance that much and there will always be some similarities to be able to establish that it's the same person. Now after 1995, me and Bidoksa don't see any evidence that this is the same person. The nose changes too many times, as do the cheek bones and have a look at the eyes. In some photos they look small and closed while in others they look big, like back in the BAD days. Also notice how from 2006 it was difficult to get a photo of Michael without his shades on. From the above can you see where I am going with this? The man we have bene seeing all these years was NOT the real Michael Jackson but a very convincing double.

Now let's go back to 1993 when me and Bidoska believe that all of this happened. This was the time when Michael was accused of child abuse by Jordan Chandler. I cannot even begin to imagine what that would have been like for Michael. Now if I place myself in his shoes, I would want to settle the matter as soon as possible and get the heck out of dodge. Let's entertain the idea for one moment that's what happened. However, Michael is the most famous man on the planet and wouldn't be able to just "dissapear". He would be hounded wherever he went. So he decided he needed someone to fill in for him and this is where the idea of a body double comes in. No-one heard of Michael for many years after 1993. He retreated to his home and didn't do any public performances, which would have given the double adequate time to perfect his mannerisms, such as his voice and the way Michael conducts himself.

Have a look at the following videos and tell me what you see. The first is a performance of "Smooth Criminal" in Mexico in 1993 from the "Dangerous" tour. The second is from the 3oth anniversary show where Michael is performing "You Rock My World". I chose these two because Michael is signing live. As much as I love Michael he rarely sang live and I wanted to point out the difference in his voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07v6tB_OLR8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENHn9UvjPrY

I know that there are 8 years in the two performances but look at the mannerisms. Have you ever wondered why in later years Michael covered his mouth a lot when he was performing? Almost like he was aware that people were judging him? I have never seen this happen before 1993, only after. Now back to the live vocals. In the first video Michael seems happy, relaxed and even though dancing a vigorous routine he is in control of his voice. In the second, he seems out of breath and not in control of his vocals. I don't mean to be rude so please don't think I am! As I mentioned above, Michael often lip synched even though he had an amazing voice. Why would he feel the need to do that? Both myself and Bidoska feel that someone who knew they couldn't pull of Michael's amazing vocal talent would feel the need to do so.

Now lets come to 2003 and the LWMJ documentary. I am sure many of you have seen this but lets take a step back and look at these two different pieces of footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7RDCDLLIm8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxzhD6jgNIY

To me they look like different people. The person in the second piece of footage looks bloated and while not fat, looks bigger in shape to the person who is the first video. While one can argue that this is shot over 8 months and a person will change, if you watch the whole thing you will see that there are several times thoughout the whole thing where Michael looks different. I would urge you to watch it again with fresh eyes! It's almost like Michael is constantly changing.

I want to come back to a comment that The Little White Bird left on the picture thread about how Michael looked different inbetween the "Dangerous" and "HIStory" tours but like the same person on the tours. I agree with him 100%. I believe that the real Michael HAD to perform on the tour because he knew there was no way he could fool anyone into believing that a subpar version was him. This ties in with "This Is It" and maybe why they never went ahead. Again the real Michael knows that no-one can do him justice and that a fake will be spotted straight away. Have a look at this footage from the 2006 WMAs. It's Michae singing "We Are The World".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp3F5IUrl3A

Firstly look at how he walks on stage, much like the O2 man. Also he only sings a few lines but listen to them. The voice is VERY breathy and not Michael like at all. I will let you draw your own conclusion to this. Also pause at 2:11 and have a look at the facial features. Small eyes and dark big lips. Not like the Michael we are used to seeing.

If we look at the facts that are detailed above it seems to indicate one thing. Even if "Michael" did die on June 25th it may not have been THE Michael Jackson, the one we all grew up with. So who's to say that Michael isn't going to make a come back?!

As I said above, this wasn't intended to hurt or offend anyone and if you don't believe it simply move on and don't comment and myself and Bidoska will not justify our findings. However I think we should keep an open mind as to EVERY possibility in this case because as we have seen it's far from simple.

Thanks for reading Smile

Rachel and Bidoska.

I am very sorry but I have to totally dissagree. Maybe Michael did use doubles in his personal life to escape of paparazzi, but on stage or interviews? NEVER! I am a person who can recognize Michael very well from all the impersonators he has. He cannot fool me, even if I am not a friend or a relative of his.Your theory is very well done and logical, but it cannoty be applied in his case. People change, Michael had to change too. He grown old, time doesnt forgive anyone. You will se when you will have his age that you will change too. Just because the media wants to put him in a unfavorable light, doesnt mean, that Michael is the person that they want to show us. Better believe in what Michael says than in media.Is the better way to know him.
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Post by pumpkin on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:35 am

So did Michael marry LMP or did the double marry her or was there no marriage? As it looks like Michael to me when they had their infamous smooch.
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Post by marsheliamorgan on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:50 am

i dont know because in the 30th anniversary special,i cant see the real michael not performing with his i could be wrong,i am just SO confused,i can see differences in the faces and body structure also tho.
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Post by CantStopLovingU on Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:39 am

J.J_loves_MJ wrote:
Rach wrote:Hey Guys.

I first of all want to start out by saying this is just a THEORY which myself and Bidoska have spent many hours working on. We don't know that is the absolute truth and to be honest, we never will do but after spending many hours researching videos, concerts and photographs we have come to the following conclusion. You don't have to believe and it and we won't justify it to to anyone. You are free to make your own mind up on it. We believe that Michael Jackson did indeed hoax his death or vanish but it wasn't on June 25th and to understand where we are coming from you need to go back to 1993.

I posted a thread yesterday with Michael's photos on them because I wanted to see what peoples reactions were to Michael's changing appreance throughout the years. Many of you came to the conclusion that it wasn't the same man in the latter part of the pictures and this is the same lines that me and Bidoska have been working on. Here is the thread so you can have a look at it.

https://mjkit.forumotion.net/pictures-hoax-f11/let-s-play-a-game-t1504.htm

Now you will notice that after the 1992 picture, Michael starts to look like a different person in almost each picture. As The Little White Bird pointed out no amount of plastic surgery can change your apperance that much and there will always be some similarities to be able to establish that it's the same person. Now after 1995, me and Bidoksa don't see any evidence that this is the same person. The nose changes too many times, as do the cheek bones and have a look at the eyes. In some photos they look small and closed while in others they look big, like back in the BAD days. Also notice how from 2006 it was difficult to get a photo of Michael without his shades on. From the above can you see where I am going with this? The man we have bene seeing all these years was NOT the real Michael Jackson but a very convincing double.

Now let's go back to 1993 when me and Bidoska believe that all of this happened. This was the time when Michael was accused of child abuse by Jordan Chandler. I cannot even begin to imagine what that would have been like for Michael. Now if I place myself in his shoes, I would want to settle the matter as soon as possible and get the heck out of dodge. Let's entertain the idea for one moment that's what happened. However, Michael is the most famous man on the planet and wouldn't be able to just "dissapear". He would be hounded wherever he went. So he decided he needed someone to fill in for him and this is where the idea of a body double comes in. No-one heard of Michael for many years after 1993. He retreated to his home and didn't do any public performances, which would have given the double adequate time to perfect his mannerisms, such as his voice and the way Michael conducts himself.

Have a look at the following videos and tell me what you see. The first is a performance of "Smooth Criminal" in Mexico in 1993 from the "Dangerous" tour. The second is from the 3oth anniversary show where Michael is performing "You Rock My World". I chose these two because Michael is signing live. As much as I love Michael he rarely sang live and I wanted to point out the difference in his voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07v6tB_OLR8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENHn9UvjPrY

I know that there are 8 years in the two performances but look at the mannerisms. Have you ever wondered why in later years Michael covered his mouth a lot when he was performing? Almost like he was aware that people were judging him? I have never seen this happen before 1993, only after. Now back to the live vocals. In the first video Michael seems happy, relaxed and even though dancing a vigorous routine he is in control of his voice. In the second, he seems out of breath and not in control of his vocals. I don't mean to be rude so please don't think I am! As I mentioned above, Michael often lip synched even though he had an amazing voice. Why would he feel the need to do that? Both myself and Bidoska feel that someone who knew they couldn't pull of Michael's amazing vocal talent would feel the need to do so.

Now lets come to 2003 and the LWMJ documentary. I am sure many of you have seen this but lets take a step back and look at these two different pieces of footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7RDCDLLIm8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxzhD6jgNIY

To me they look like different people. The person in the second piece of footage looks bloated and while not fat, looks bigger in shape to the person who is the first video. While one can argue that this is shot over 8 months and a person will change, if you watch the whole thing you will see that there are several times thoughout the whole thing where Michael looks different. I would urge you to watch it again with fresh eyes! It's almost like Michael is constantly changing.

I want to come back to a comment that The Little White Bird left on the picture thread about how Michael looked different inbetween the "Dangerous" and "HIStory" tours but like the same person on the tours. I agree with him 100%. I believe that the real Michael HAD to perform on the tour because he knew there was no way he could fool anyone into believing that a subpar version was him. This ties in with "This Is It" and maybe why they never went ahead. Again the real Michael knows that no-one can do him justice and that a fake will be spotted straight away. Have a look at this footage from the 2006 WMAs. It's Michae singing "We Are The World".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp3F5IUrl3A

Firstly look at how he walks on stage, much like the O2 man. Also he only sings a few lines but listen to them. The voice is VERY breathy and not Michael like at all. I will let you draw your own conclusion to this. Also pause at 2:11 and have a look at the facial features. Small eyes and dark big lips. Not like the Michael we are used to seeing.

If we look at the facts that are detailed above it seems to indicate one thing. Even if "Michael" did die on June 25th it may not have been THE Michael Jackson, the one we all grew up with. So who's to say that Michael isn't going to make a come back?!

As I said above, this wasn't intended to hurt or offend anyone and if you don't believe it simply move on and don't comment and myself and Bidoska will not justify our findings. However I think we should keep an open mind as to EVERY possibility in this case because as we have seen it's far from simple.

Thanks for reading Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_smile

Rachel and Bidoska.

I am very sorry but I have to totally dissagree. Maybe Michael did use doubles in his personal life to escape of paparazzi, but on stage or interviews? NEVER! I am a person who can recognize Michael very well from all the impersonators he has. He cannot fool me, even if I am not a friend or a relative of his.Your theory is very well done and logical, but it cannoty be applied in his case. People change, Michael had to change too. He grown old, time doesnt forgive anyone. You will se when you will have his age that you will change too. Just because the media wants to put him in a unfavorable light, doesnt mean, that Michael is the person that they want to show us. Better believe in what Michael says than in media.Is the better way to know him.


This isnt about an Impersonator - We are talking a double almost an exact likeness which is different from an impersonator
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Post by CantStopLovingU on Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:46 am

I re-watched the Bashir interview parts you posted and I noticed 2 things about Michael at the end. Number 1. his thumb, there is no mistaken the shape of his thumb and that was his. The 2nd thing was his nails, I could see the shading, but the thing that stood out the most was his thumb. I think it was MJ even though he looks different.
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Post by phoenix on Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:52 am

Girls thank you for sharing your theory with us- i am very sure its the way you describe it and i also gonna say why i think so- i have bought a magazine 2 weeks after "death" and there is a MJ- pics timeline which goes over 3 pages and my little brother- okay is is not that young any more but still younger than me lol...told me look at thouse pics- he looks so differnet in some of them- sometimes he looks older and then 3 years later younger again- which is clearly impossible right? i did not think too much about what my brother said to me but it came to my mind yesturday when Rachel posted the game-thread and i am sure she and bido are right about that
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Post by rowdyangel on Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:11 am

phoenix wrote:Girls thank you for sharing your theory with us- i am very sure its the way you describe it and i also gonna say why i think so- i have bought a magazine 2 weeks after "death" and there is a MJ- pics timeline which goes over 3 pages and my little brother- okay is is not that young any more but still younger than me lol...told me look at thouse pics- he looks so differnet in some of them- sometimes he looks older and then 3 years later younger again- which is clearly impossible right? i did not think too much about what my brother said to me but it came to my mind yesturday when Rachel posted the game-thread and i am sure she and bido are right about that

Phoenix, I too got a pull-out from a newspaper a couple of weeks after he 'died' and it has 2 whole pages of pictures of Michael through the years. Now unfortunately, the pics are not dated but they seem to be in chronological order. I can clearly see the differences other people have noticed.

I might go and scan them in so that people can see it.
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Post by J.J_loves_MJ on Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:26 am

CantStopLovingU wrote:
J.J_loves_MJ wrote:
Rach wrote:Hey Guys.

I first of all want to start out by saying this is just a THEORY which myself and Bidoska have spent many hours working on. We don't know that is the absolute truth and to be honest, we never will do but after spending many hours researching videos, concerts and photographs we have come to the following conclusion. You don't have to believe and it and we won't justify it to to anyone. You are free to make your own mind up on it. We believe that Michael Jackson did indeed hoax his death or vanish but it wasn't on June 25th and to understand where we are coming from you need to go back to 1993.

I posted a thread yesterday with Michael's photos on them because I wanted to see what peoples reactions were to Michael's changing appreance throughout the years. Many of you came to the conclusion that it wasn't the same man in the latter part of the pictures and this is the same lines that me and Bidoska have been working on. Here is the thread so you can have a look at it.

https://mjkit.forumotion.net/pictures-hoax-f11/let-s-play-a-game-t1504.htm

Now you will notice that after the 1992 picture, Michael starts to look like a different person in almost each picture. As The Little White Bird pointed out no amount of plastic surgery can change your apperance that much and there will always be some similarities to be able to establish that it's the same person. Now after 1995, me and Bidoksa don't see any evidence that this is the same person. The nose changes too many times, as do the cheek bones and have a look at the eyes. In some photos they look small and closed while in others they look big, like back in the BAD days. Also notice how from 2006 it was difficult to get a photo of Michael without his shades on. From the above can you see where I am going with this? The man we have bene seeing all these years was NOT the real Michael Jackson but a very convincing double.

Now let's go back to 1993 when me and Bidoska believe that all of this happened. This was the time when Michael was accused of child abuse by Jordan Chandler. I cannot even begin to imagine what that would have been like for Michael. Now if I place myself in his shoes, I would want to settle the matter as soon as possible and get the heck out of dodge. Let's entertain the idea for one moment that's what happened. However, Michael is the most famous man on the planet and wouldn't be able to just "dissapear". He would be hounded wherever he went. So he decided he needed someone to fill in for him and this is where the idea of a body double comes in. No-one heard of Michael for many years after 1993. He retreated to his home and didn't do any public performances, which would have given the double adequate time to perfect his mannerisms, such as his voice and the way Michael conducts himself.

Have a look at the following videos and tell me what you see. The first is a performance of "Smooth Criminal" in Mexico in 1993 from the "Dangerous" tour. The second is from the 3oth anniversary show where Michael is performing "You Rock My World". I chose these two because Michael is signing live. As much as I love Michael he rarely sang live and I wanted to point out the difference in his voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07v6tB_OLR8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENHn9UvjPrY

I know that there are 8 years in the two performances but look at the mannerisms. Have you ever wondered why in later years Michael covered his mouth a lot when he was performing? Almost like he was aware that people were judging him? I have never seen this happen before 1993, only after. Now back to the live vocals. In the first video Michael seems happy, relaxed and even though dancing a vigorous routine he is in control of his voice. In the second, he seems out of breath and not in control of his vocals. I don't mean to be rude so please don't think I am! As I mentioned above, Michael often lip synched even though he had an amazing voice. Why would he feel the need to do that? Both myself and Bidoska feel that someone who knew they couldn't pull of Michael's amazing vocal talent would feel the need to do so.

Now lets come to 2003 and the LWMJ documentary. I am sure many of you have seen this but lets take a step back and look at these two different pieces of footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7RDCDLLIm8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxzhD6jgNIY

To me they look like different people. The person in the second piece of footage looks bloated and while not fat, looks bigger in shape to the person who is the first video. While one can argue that this is shot over 8 months and a person will change, if you watch the whole thing you will see that there are several times thoughout the whole thing where Michael looks different. I would urge you to watch it again with fresh eyes! It's almost like Michael is constantly changing.

I want to come back to a comment that The Little White Bird left on the picture thread about how Michael looked different inbetween the "Dangerous" and "HIStory" tours but like the same person on the tours. I agree with him 100%. I believe that the real Michael HAD to perform on the tour because he knew there was no way he could fool anyone into believing that a subpar version was him. This ties in with "This Is It" and maybe why they never went ahead. Again the real Michael knows that no-one can do him justice and that a fake will be spotted straight away. Have a look at this footage from the 2006 WMAs. It's Michae singing "We Are The World".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp3F5IUrl3A

Firstly look at how he walks on stage, much like the O2 man. Also he only sings a few lines but listen to them. The voice is VERY breathy and not Michael like at all. I will let you draw your own conclusion to this. Also pause at 2:11 and have a look at the facial features. Small eyes and dark big lips. Not like the Michael we are used to seeing.

If we look at the facts that are detailed above it seems to indicate one thing. Even if "Michael" did die on June 25th it may not have been THE Michael Jackson, the one we all grew up with. So who's to say that Michael isn't going to make a come back?!

As I said above, this wasn't intended to hurt or offend anyone and if you don't believe it simply move on and don't comment and myself and Bidoska will not justify our findings. However I think we should keep an open mind as to EVERY possibility in this case because as we have seen it's far from simple.

Thanks for reading Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_smile

Rachel and Bidoska.

I am very sorry but I have to totally dissagree. Maybe Michael did use doubles in his personal life to escape of paparazzi, but on stage or interviews? NEVER! I am a person who can recognize Michael very well from all the impersonators he has. He cannot fool me, even if I am not a friend or a relative of his.Your theory is very well done and logical, but it cannoty be applied in his case. People change, Michael had to change too. He grown old, time doesnt forgive anyone. You will se when you will have his age that you will change too. Just because the media wants to put him in a unfavorable light, doesnt mean, that Michael is the person that they want to show us. Better believe in what Michael says than in media.Is the better way to know him.


This isnt about an Impersonator - We are talking a double almost an exact likeness which is different from an impersonator

There is no such double.
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Post by mommy on Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:32 am

Uhh, I don't know. Looking at the vids I totally see your point and especially while singing "We are the world" - who's voice is that? Notice in the end, how he stops when the music is fading out. Or maybe he just had a cold?? Bless ya!
Also - the cheekbones are very outstanding in the first Bashir vid. Not so much in the second one.

I am open for anything. I will look more closely at the vids again and see what I can come up with. I am actually supposed to go to a meeting now. What kind og excuse can I use? Got stuck with MJ??? Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Lol I wish I was.
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Post by phoenix on Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:33 am

rowdyangel wrote:
phoenix wrote:Girls thank you for sharing your theory with us- i am very sure its the way you describe it and i also gonna say why i think so- i have bought a magazine 2 weeks after "death" and there is a MJ- pics timeline which goes over 3 pages and my little brother- okay is is not that young any more but still younger than me lol...told me look at thouse pics- he looks so differnet in some of them- sometimes he looks older and then 3 years later younger again- which is clearly impossible right? i did not think too much about what my brother said to me but it came to my mind yesturday when Rachel posted the game-thread and i am sure she and bido are right about that

Phoenix, I too got a pull-out from a newspaper a couple of weeks after he 'died' and it has 2 whole pages of pictures of Michael through the years. Now unfortunately, the pics are not dated but they seem to be in chronological order. I can clearly see the differences other people have noticed.

I might go and scan them in so that people can see it.

thats a great idea- i gonna try to find the magazine and scan it too because on my pics its always a year written down on the side- hopefully i did not throw it away!!
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Post by rowdyangel on Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 am

OK take a look at the 2 sets of pics below. They were taken from a newspaper pull-out soon after MJ died and it was entitled "The Changing Face of Michael Jackson".

I have scanned these into my PC, uploaded to Photobucket and added some text on the pics that I consider dubious. The pics are in order of left to right across both pages (hope this makes sense!!).

I can see what Rachel means with her theory by looking through these pics.

Let me know what you all think.

Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Mirror1-1 Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Mirror2-1
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Post by phoenix on Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:21 am

@rowdyangel i know exactly what you are referring to! i really need to post my pics too so we have more stuff to compare!
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Post by mo2kidzs on Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:15 am

Hey guys check out http://epitarot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=tmjs&action=display&thread=573


Empathy has been talking about tow worlds for a very long time.. and she is always right on......
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Post by yaya on Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:34 am

honestly, i think in all the video clips it was michael. it's kind of like saying the real michael died in 1980-something. i can't grasp that for some reason and i think the explanation for his minor changes in appearance is age, plus the fact that he was always changing. sometimes we'd go for quite a while without having seen him. so how are we to say that it's not him the next time we do see him. but i do think the theory was very well laid out tho Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_smile
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Post by ballongiraf on Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:36 am

If the real MJ truly did disappear back in 1993 and has let a double live his life ever since, then what was the purpose of the june 25th "death"?
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Post by yaya on Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:40 am

ballongiraf wrote:If the real MJ truly did disappear back in 1993 and has let a double live his life ever since, then what was the purpose of the june 25th "death"?

that's a good question Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Icon_rr
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Post by Black_Orchid on Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:41 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l74Y_p6or00
Rachel and Bid, thank you for doing this great job. I'm sure that Michael was using doubles since '93 but, in my opinion, it was definately him in the "You Rock My World" performance. Compare that Michael with the one in the link I gave you. I know it's the same show (30th Anniversary Special) and there must be the same person. Just look the way he does the Moonwalk Michael did indeed hoax his death/vanish.....but not on June 25th. Herz He is irreplaceable.
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Post by Guest on Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:52 am

ballongiraf wrote:If the real MJ truly did disappear back in 1993 and has let a double live his life ever since, then what was the purpose of the june 25th "death"?


He didnt
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Post by Make.A.Difference on Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:37 am

Rach and Bidoska...
Excellent work. I have looked through those pictures too. In fact, now I look for those differences in every picture that I see.

I believe he did most of his performances, televised or on film (I think that there is an acknowledged fact that ECas stood in for him for the "Who Is It?" video), but I watched the LWMJ several times. Before anything was said on this thread about believing that MJ was the person at the end, I thought it was him and the other MJ's, in the inspiration tree and in Germany, might be somebody else. The clue for me was his nervousness in handling Blanket in Germany. For a person who has had and cared for two previous children, he was very awkward in his handling of Blanket. MJ would not have been like that...even if he had nanny's helping him raise the little ones. Just not happening. His answer for hanging Blanket over the balcony was a little sketchy IMO too. This was a PR nightmare, as we all know. With MJ being SO good at PR and trying to protect or cultivate his image, why on earth would he hang his own child over a balcony? Doesn't make sense to me.

The other thing that really caught my eye in the interview was the anger I saw in his eyes at the end. When MB was talking to him about having little boys in his bed. (I'm looking at this from my own viewpoint. I don't believe MJ had any illicit relations with any children...he cares too much about their well being) Bashir kept pushing the point about how it looks and started "lecturing" MJ about it, there was a definite flash of anger in his eyes. Then he sat there and listened to the cr*p coming out of MB and it seemed to me he was really trying to control his anger because he knew the camera's were rolling, but his eyes didn't lie about how angry he was. I know if it was me in that situation, being accused of such a thing before, I would have looked just like that...fighting with myself not to take the bait that MB was throwing at me.

Just my thoughts ...

Peace

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Post by Human_nature on Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:48 am

Wherever. Whatever. Have a nice day."


Last edited by Human_nature on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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