I think i discovered who joseph was

by sammymj Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:16 pm

the below is just my speculation

ps: this is my first post. i hope that you'll not bash me or call me ridiculous.

it's becoming very clear to us that michael jackson MAY have employed a double.

to me, the difference btw a double and an impersonator is that a double shared the same " soul" as michael jackson whereas the impersonator was merely acting- an impersonation. hence, both jonathan and joe could had very possibly been related by blood. to account for their striking resemblance that one finds it difficult to tell them apart, they could possibly had been siblings. we're reminded that marlon jackson had a twin brother called brandon jackson. it must also be noted that marlon is just a year older than michael jackson.

marlon jackson-1957

michael joseph/joe jackson was born in -1958

INTRODUCING JOSEPH

marlon jackson-1957

michael joseph/joe jackson was born in -1958

Marlon Jackson never had a twin brother. It was a cover-up by the Jackson family.
Michael Joe Jackson and Michael Joseph Jackson were twin brothers who both had villigito. Their date of birth was 1958 in their birth certificates. Since Marlon was a year older than Michael, the Jackson family thought that there would be fewer suspicions in making Marlon the twin instead. Michael Joe Jackson was the one who did the first moonwalk.

Lisa Marie married Joseph Jackson. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKMAtWEm-M&feature=related )
There are actually photos of Joseph without his eyeliner on and i must say that his eyes look really different from that of the thriller Joe. During their marriage, Lisa Marie and Joseph frequented orphanages and it seemed that Joseph had a deep capacity of caring and love for children. Ever since Michael married Lisa marie, he started to look different. He was more "asexual" looking. if you know what i mean..
It also seemed that Joseph was taller than Joe. That was when all the " wacko jacko" nicknames started coming out.

youtube vid of a collection of pics of lisa marie and joseph:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54DC6OufSaA

i also remembered that lisa marie mentioned that michael hardly let anyone enter his world and see the person whom he really is. it appears that joseph had a really complicated past when lisa marie mentioned that she could not stop him from certain destructive behaviour and that he was like a boy angry at the world. Why was he angry? Had Joseph been abandoned or neglected by his parents earlier on in his childhood?
This reminds me of the song " Childhood".

Before you judge me, try hard to love me,
Look within your heart then ask,
Have you seen my Childhood?
People say I'm strange that way
'Cause I love such elementary things,
It's been my fate to compensate,
For the Childhood I've never known...

Personality Differences

both joseph and joe lost their childhood in different ways and perhaps regressed it in different ways too. Joseph was the more practical of the 2 and wanted to have children to regress himself. Joe liked to live in his own fantasy world.

Joseph badly wanted to have kids and hence Joseph married Debbie Rowe. Joe, on the other hand, invited children to stay with him and got into all kinds of trouble.
it seems that Joseph is the taller and more caucasian-looking of the 2

Joseph really enjoys chewing gum all the time. Joseph was a good friend of Elizabeth Taylor ( as for Joe, i'm not too sure)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qergecgMmaY&feature=related

It was Joseph doing the rebuttal video for the Bashir documentary and not Joe. Evidently, Joseph seemed to be more domineering than Joe.
Perhaps, Joe suffered from lupus and was in chronic pain. He turned to painkillers and simply could not perform on stage anymore.
Joe was alot more softspoken than Joseph and seemed to be awkward most of the time. He was more masculine-looking.
omar bhatti could had possibly been joseph jackson's son.

most importantly, joseph spoke much more emotionally and dramatically than joe. he gestulates alot while joe was always withdrawn and spoke slowly.

COMPARE THEIR EYES IN THE SAME YEAR

1995 interview( JOSEPH); mentions that he has 9 siblings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM_MjkCjGQQ&feature=related

TOP 1995 message( JOE):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKn-0Ey4T54

1996 interview( Joe):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kgBL3UVUXU

1992 interview( Joseph):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQjMy0JnDK4&feature=related

:
their eyes are clearly very different.

AROUND THE SAME TIME TO ADDRESS CHILD MOLESTATION CHARGES:

Michael Jackson - 60 Minutes ( JOE):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQwY4ll1Kfc&feature=related

Michael Jackson-geraldo ( JOE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dI46XY8S9E&feature=related

it seems that joe is always the one involved in clearing up child molestation accuses.

CHANGES STARTED IN 1991- DANGEROUS ALBUM

Will You Be There? live performance( JOSEPH- no im not too sure):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck1nWeOwtDQ&feature=related

Barbara Walter's interview( JOSEPH):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRV_zpRiyqc&feature=related

MICHAEL JOE JACKSON'S SUPPOSED LAST BILLIE JEAN PERFORMANCE( 30th anniversary special):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l74Y_p6or00&feature=related

i personally feel that this was his best performance.
besides, michael seems to have "shrunk" back to his original height

On July 7, 2009, Marlon and his family offered their final eulogies for Michael, saying he was the "soul" of the family, and breaking down as he tearfully addressed the crowd: "Maybe now Michael, they will leave you alone" and "I would like for you to give our brother, my twin brother, Brandon, a hug for me" Marlon fought back tears as he said "Everytime you hugged us Michael we told you we love you and your response always was I love you more. I love you Michael and I miss you

- who was doing the concert tours? ( i believe mostly joe)
- then what happened to Michael Joseph Jackson?( dead or alive?)
- where is Michael Joe Jackson now? Why did he let his double perform in his place?

by wandulka Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:42 pm

I find this unlikely. I mean...Michael is Michael...yes, he had a double once...like 10 years ago, but the double looked nothing like him. He just put a facecloth on and pretended to be Mike while the real Michael was shopping without being chased by the paparazzi. To me, Michael has always been the sweet, funny, innocent guy who loves chewing gums. Smile

But I do respect your opinion.

By the way, I thought that Joe means Joseph...? Well, I'm an idiot I guess I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_biggrin

Can someone please explain?

by emo_pinkt Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:46 pm

Woah....I do not see eye to eye with this one though Smile

I do think that Marlon had a twin not Mike..ETA..I think that all of the Mikes are one and the same though.

by Human_nature Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:49 pm

Wherever. Whatever. Have a nice day."

by emo_pinkt Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:52 pm

Human_nature wrote:My opinion : Michael don't have a twin brother and it was one and only one Michael.

This "Informant" who came from nowhere and his speculations (about a double "Jonathan" seems to have affected alot of people here, and I think it's very sad.

Again, this is my personal opinion. Thanks, and peace.

But I thought that there was no Jonathon..but now I see people still talking about it. It was MJ at the o2..not some Johnaton. *Shrugs*

by EarthAngel90 Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:54 pm

Well , My Brother's Name is Joseph but we call him Joe for short ... that name can change from Joseph to Joe a lot of times ..... so I thinking ... the Middle Name bit isn't much to worry about ...

by wandulka Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:56 pm

Thank you. So, why do people make so much fuss about it? Joseph, Joe, it's the same. His father's Joseph, but everyone calls him Joe..

by Rach Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:01 pm

Very interesting theory and thanks for sharing!

I don't think it's any less plausible than some of the other theories we have heard on here. I will keep an open mind as to this.

I do agree with you though that there has been more than one Michael for a number of years. As to whether or not that person was related by blood, I'm not so sure.

by MJ_Fan_For_40_yrs Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:04 pm

I was in AWE when I read your post. This is why:

I've posted this already somewhere else, but I will post it here.

Where the Google banner ads are (above) they keep changing for me, as though they're "messages." I've "received" quite a few lately.

Today (coincidence? I don't believe ANY of this is coincidence!) the message that came up for me was this:

Forum Michael Wow Fans

Michael jackson Joe Jackson Faq Official

Good Page

(Someone has already mentioned to me that these banner ads are just some algorithym or something -- I don't understand it all -- w/ "key words" and such....BUT....I didn't TYPE in anything! I was just reading posts in the forum, and NOT on this thread!)

:~ Please Don't Judge Me ~:

by GirlInTheMirror1 Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:06 pm

Well, actually I don´t believe MJ had a twin brother. And I mean, if this was true, the parents must have planned everything right from their birth (in saying one of them is Marlon´s twin). When Michael was born, they couldn´t know what their son would do in later years (and how he would develop), so this seems unlikely. Also giving twins actually the same name (because "Joe" is just short for "Joseph").

But thanks for your research anyway. Smile

by MJFoReVeRandAlways Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:15 pm

I don´t know what to believe, BUT so far during my time in this forum I´ve never said never about anything. So I´m not going to now either. I keep an open mind to everything, that´s how one finds good stuff by not excluding anything.

The first thing that came to my mind when I read this was that that would explain why Katherine was so sad at the funeral. She did bury a son. At the same time it doesn´t explain why Joe is/was so neutral/happy: it would still be a son to him, just not Michael King of Pop, and he should be just as sad for this son as if it would have been Michael KOP. Just a thought.

by ishealive Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:16 pm

Human_nature wrote:My opinion : Michael don't have a twin brother and it was one and only one Michael.

This "Informant" who came from nowhere and his speculations (about a double "Jonathan" seems to have affected alot of people here, and I think it's very sad.

Again, this is my personal opinion. Thanks, and peace.

I agree with you, there is only one Michael Jackson. He may have had the odd double here and there but that was it. Michael was only one person.

by ilprincipe Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:19 pm

I think the theory is interesting...especially when I mix it with some
parts of Rach's and Bidos theory....

and it would match to Liza Minelli's statement.....
"All hell will break loose" ....

by nlb Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:20 pm

Rach wrote:Very interesting theory and thanks for sharing!

I don't think it's any less plausible than some of the other theories we have heard on here. I will keep an open mind as to this.

I do agree with you though that there has been more than one Michael for a number of years. As to whether or not that person was related by blood, I'm not so sure.

Rach took the words right out of my mouth! I think i discovered who joseph was Lol

Thanks for sharing this with us and I look forward to reading more of your posts. Welcome to the forum! I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_smile

by Harleyblonde Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:21 pm

Very interesting theory but no I do not think this is likely at all. No-one knew at all what would happen in the future and twin Michaels would have been very cute in the Jackson 5 eh? No, I think some of the speculations are getting way out of hand. Get a grip y'all!!!!!!

I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_rr

by Rach Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:23 pm

Guys

I have a feeling peoples thoughts on this are going to get a little heated so can I please ask that this thread be kept clean and if you don't agree with the theory in hand don't be rude and move on.

Thank you.

by DreamsComeTrue Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:33 pm

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:Well, actually I don´t believe MJ had a twin brother. And I mean, if this was true, the parents must have planned everything right from their birth (in saying one of them is Marlon´s twin). When Michael was born, they couldn´t know what their son would do in later years (and how he would develop), so this seems unlikely. Also giving twins actually the same name (because "Joe" is just short for "Joseph").

But thanks for your research anyway.

I was thinking the same! I don't think Joe Jackson whould have lost the oportunity to exploit another one of his children...just to make a double for Michael?!
I don't think Katherine would have aloud to make from 2 persons just 1! I mean, two of her children with the same identity!

The story is very good, but IMO is a little far from reality (but, who know's?)!

I rather believe Michael wanted to create a confusion with this two middle names! I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_scratch

by GirlInTheMirror1 Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:36 pm

DreamsComeTrue wrote:
GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:Well, actually I don´t believe MJ had a twin brother. And I mean, if this was true, the parents must have planned everything right from their birth (in saying one of them is Marlon´s twin). When Michael was born, they couldn´t know what their son would do in later years (and how he would develop), so this seems unlikely. Also giving twins actually the same name (because "Joe" is just short for "Joseph").

But thanks for your research anyway.

I was thinking the same! I don't think Joe Jackson whould have lost the oportunity to exploit another one of his children...just to make a double for Michael?!
I don't think Katherine would have aloud to make from 2 persons just 1! I mean, two of her children with the same identity!

The story is very good, but IMO is a little far from reality (but, who know's?)!

I rather believe Michael wanted to create a confusion with this two middle names!

Yes, also, as was mentioned before, if there had been two cute little Michaels, who could sing...Joe wouldn´t have let this opportunity pass, I think.. But of course this is only my opinion;)

by mjssoulmate Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:41 pm

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:Well, actually I don´t believe MJ had a twin brother. And I mean, if this was true, the parents must have planned everything right from their birth (in saying one of them is Marlon´s twin). When Michael was born, they couldn´t know what their son would do in later years (and how he would develop), so this seems unlikely. Also giving twins actually the same name (because "Joe" is just short for "Joseph").

But thanks for your research anyway.

My thoughts exactly! No way did the Jackson "hide" a child from the public, just in case Michael planned to xcape later on in life.
I don't mean any disrespect, but that is just too far out for me.

by GirlSaturday Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:37 pm

Welcome. That was a very nice and thoughtful first post.

The whole Marlon Jackson having a twin news really surprised me. I never never never heard about this before June 25th. Granted, those were different times and the Jackson 5 had a strong image/public relations team. I understand keeping Joseph Jackson's (father) daughter outside of his marriage a secret but hiding a child such as Marlon's dead twin makes no sense. There was nothing scandalous or compromising to the Jackson brothers' image in revealing that a baby had died at birth.

sammymj wrote:the below is just my speculation

ps: this is my first post. i hope that you'll not bash me or call me ridiculous.

it's becoming very clear to us that michael jackson MAY have employed a double.

to me, the difference btw a double and an impersonator is that a double shared the same " soul" as michael jackson whereas the impersonator was merely acting- an impersonation. hence, both jonathan and joe could had very possibly been related by blood. to account for their striking resemblance that one finds it difficult to tell them apart, they could possibly had been siblings. we're reminded that marlon jackson had a twin brother called brandon jackson. it must also be noted that marlon is just a year older than michael jackson.

marlon jackson-1957

michael joseph/joe jackson was born in -1958

INTRODUCING JOSEPH

marlon jackson-1957

michael joseph/joe jackson was born in -1958

Marlon Jackson never had a twin brother. It was a cover-up by the Jackson family.
Michael Joe Jackson and Michael Joseph Jackson were twin brothers who both had villigito. Their date of birth was 1958 in their birth certificates. Since Marlon was a year older than Michael, the Jackson family thought that there would be fewer suspicions in making Marlon the twin instead. Michael Joe Jackson was the one who did the first moonwalk.

Lisa Marie married Joseph Jackson. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKMAtWEm-M&feature=related )
There are actually photos of Joseph without his eyeliner on and i must say that his eyes look really different from that of the thriller Joe. During their marriage, Lisa Marie and Joseph frequented orphanages and it seemed that Joseph had a deep capacity of caring and love for children. Ever since Michael married Lisa marie, he started to look different. He was more "asexual" looking. if you know what i mean..
It also seemed that Joseph was taller than Joe. That was when all the " wacko jacko" nicknames started coming out.

youtube vid of a collection of pics of lisa marie and joseph:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54DC6OufSaA

i also remembered that lisa marie mentioned that michael hardly let anyone enter his world and see the person whom he really is. it appears that joseph had a really complicated past when lisa marie mentioned that she could not stop him from certain destructive behaviour and that he was like a boy angry at the world. Why was he angry? Had Joseph been abandoned or neglected by his parents earlier on in his childhood?
This reminds me of the song " Childhood".

Before you judge me, try hard to love me,
Look within your heart then ask,
Have you seen my Childhood?
People say I'm strange that way
'Cause I love such elementary things,
It's been my fate to compensate,
For the Childhood I've never known...

Personality Differences

both joseph and joe lost their childhood in different ways and perhaps regressed it in different ways too. Joseph was the more practical of the 2 and wanted to have children to regress himself. Joe liked to live in his own fantasy world.

Joseph badly wanted to have kids and hence Joseph married Debbie Rowe. Joe, on the other hand, invited children to stay with him and got into all kinds of trouble.
it seems that Joseph is the taller and more caucasian-looking of the 2

Joseph really enjoys chewing gum all the time. Joseph was a good friend of Elizabeth Taylor ( as for Joe, i'm not too sure)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qergecgMmaY&feature=related

It was Joseph doing the rebuttal video for the Bashir documentary and not Joe. Evidently, Joseph seemed to be more domineering than Joe.
Perhaps, Joe suffered from lupus and was in chronic pain. He turned to painkillers and simply could not perform on stage anymore.
Joe was alot more softspoken than Joseph and seemed to be awkward most of the time. He was more masculine-looking.
omar bhatti could had possibly been joseph jackson's son.

most importantly, joseph spoke much more emotionally and dramatically than joe. he gestulates alot while joe was always withdrawn and spoke slowly.

COMPARE THEIR EYES IN THE SAME YEAR

1995 interview( JOSEPH); mentions that he has 9 siblings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM_MjkCjGQQ&feature=related

TOP 1995 message( JOE):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKn-0Ey4T54

1996 interview( Joe):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kgBL3UVUXU

1992 interview( Joseph):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQjMy0JnDK4&feature=related

:
their eyes are clearly very different.

AROUND THE SAME TIME TO ADDRESS CHILD MOLESTATION CHARGES:

Michael Jackson - 60 Minutes ( JOE):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQwY4ll1Kfc&feature=related

Michael Jackson-geraldo ( JOE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dI46XY8S9E&feature=related

it seems that joe is always the one involved in clearing up child molestation accuses.

CHANGES STARTED IN 1991- DANGEROUS ALBUM

- no more Joe but Joseph instead.

Black and white mv( JOSEPH):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyBs6-cmFvQ

Do you remember mv( JOSEPH):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk85M68MRh4

Will You Be There? live performance( JOSEPH):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck1nWeOwtDQ&feature=related

did anyone realise that joseph is very caucasian looking?

Barbara Walter's interview( JOSEPH):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRV_zpRiyqc&feature=related

MICHAEL JOE JACKSON'S SUPPOSED LAST BILLIE JEAN PERFORMANCE( 30th anniversary special):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l74Y_p6or00&feature=related

i personally feel that this was his best performance.
besides, michael seems to have "shrunk" back to his original height

On July 7, 2009, Marlon and his family offered their final eulogies for Michael, saying he was the "soul" of the family, and breaking down as he tearfully addressed the crowd: "Maybe now Michael, they will leave you alone" and "I would like for you to give our brother, my twin brother, Brandon, a hug for me" Marlon fought back tears as he said "Everytime you hugged us Michael we told you we love you and your response always was I love you more. I love you Michael and I miss you

- who was doing the concert tours? ( i believe mostly joe)
- then what happened to Michael Joseph Jackson?( dead or alive?)
- where is Michael Joe Jackson now? Why did he let his double perform in his place?

by MiaPaparazzi Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:00 pm

wandulka wrote:By the way, I thought that Joe means Joseph...? Well, I'm an idiot I guess Can someone please explain?

Joe vs Joseph has been a big debate... Joe does mean Joseph, however, if you don't use your full legal name on legal docs it makes them invalid. There are lots of docs signed by Michael "JOE" Jackson (passport, etc) but death cert says "JOSEPH"... thus making it null and void... along with the fact that it was never signed by a doctor. Hope that helps. There are lots of threads about that topic alone...

by MiaPaparazzi Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:06 pm

Also, I never knew Marlon had a twin before the memorial, and to be completely honest, I had NO clue about Rebbie... I thought there were only 2 girls, Janet and LaToya... so I am keeping an open mind to this theory as well, it may not have started out as a "plan from birth" but if I (and I am not the only one who was surprised to hear there was a 3rd sister) didn't know about her, it could be possible.

Remember people, we are talking about THE Jacksons. ANYTHING is possible. Wink

by MJFoReVeRandAlways Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:09 pm

MiaPaparazzi wrote:Also, I never knew Marlon had a twin before the memorial, and to be completely honest, I had NO clue about Rebbie... I thought there were only 2 girls, Janet and LaToya... so I am keeping an open mind to this theory as well, it may not have started out as a "plan from birth" but if I (and I am not the only one who was surprised to hear there was a 3rd sister) didn't know about her, it could be possible.

Remember people, we are talking about THE Jacksons. ANYTHING is possible.

I found out recently, after MJ´s "death". "The Jacksons - An American Dream" was on tv. I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_biggrin

by GirlInTheMirror1 Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:43 pm

Well, the Jackson family was on wikipedia before that, also Rebbie and Brandon.

This reminds me a bit of "man in the iron mask".

by nlb Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:02 pm

MiaPaparazzi wrote:Also, I never knew Marlon had a twin before the memorial, and to be completely honest, I had NO clue about Rebbie... I thought there were only 2 girls, Janet and LaToya... so I am keeping an open mind to this theory as well, it may not have started out as a "plan from birth" but if I (and I am not the only one who was surprised to hear there was a 3rd sister) didn't know about her, it could be possible.

Remember people, we are talking about THE Jacksons. ANYTHING is possible.

I was unaware of the twin and Rebbie as well. I usually didn't pay much attention to the entire Jackson family. But after the last three ALL the Jacksons are worth watching!

by CantStopLovingU Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:58 pm

ishealive wrote:
Human_nature wrote:My opinion : Michael don't have a twin brother and it was one and only one Michael.

This "Informant" who came from nowhere and his speculations (about a double "Jonathan" seems to have affected alot of people here, and I think it's very sad.

Again, this is my personal opinion. Thanks, and peace.

I agree with you, there is only one Michael Jackson. He may have had the odd double here and there but that was it. Michael was only one person.

Please please remember the difference between a "double" and an "Impersonator" - The Informant was very adamant about using the term DOUBLE. What you both describe is an IMPERSONATOR.

If you read ANNIES THEORY she explains exactly what a DOUBLE is. A double is what is says, a duplicate version of a person. A double looks so much like the person that people cannot tell them apart, whereas an Impersonator takes on the persona of a person but they dont always look like them and never to the point of not being able to tell the difference.

Using a TWIN theory is a good way of explaining the difference.

Think of Tia and Tamara Mowry or any other set of identical twins. They LOOK exactly alike even though they might have little differences if you looked closely.

Then think of Michael and Navi - Even though Navi covered his face and at a glance or from a distance might fool some folks, you could clearly see that he did NOT look like Michael.

I do see the differences in the eyes and speech in the videos that she posted. Not saying that it was the twin of Marlon, but something is clearly not matching up. Again it points back to the same period of time that the Informant pointed us too.

I never had the time with working to try to find these inconsistences in Michael life that he referenced, but I'll what I can try to find this weekend.

by sammymj Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:31 am

guys, there clearly is a difference between Joe and Joseph. Joe is not the short-form for Joseph. These are 2 different people with their own legal names- Michael Joseph Jackson and Michael Joe Jackson.

though the twin theory is obviously far-fetched, we cannot forget the fact that there were indeed 2 legal michael jacksons.

we know that on the death certificate, it had Michael Joseph Jackson's name on it.

Lisa Marie exchanged marriage vows with Michael Joseph Jackson.
The ironic thing is that she seems to be in love with Michael Joe Jackson.

however, the child molestation charges were directed to Michael Joe Jackson instead of Michael Joseph Jackson.

court trial verdict was directed to Michael Joe Jackson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8hzaYNdNM

lisa marie exchanging marriage vows with Michael Joseph Jackson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFnbHQzv8-8

If Joe and Joseph were the same person, then the death certificate would be invalid. Someone by the name of Michael Joseph Jackson died instead of Michael Joe/Joseph Jackson.

i actually also found it far fetched that his double was not his twin too. however, it's difficult to rule out the possibility that this double could had been related to mj by blood.

by Guest Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:42 am

If Joe and Joseph were the same person, then the death certificate would be invalid. Someone by the name of Michael Joseph Jackson died instead of Michael Joe/Joseph Jackson.

i actually also found it far fetched that his double was not his twin too. however, it's difficult to rule out the possibility that this double could had been related to mj by blood......Written by.sammymj

Yes you are right...Well done!!

Who really knows for sure? No one except MJ and those involved. Etc Ecas I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_wink

A very good idea I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_sunny

And The Plot Thickens!!!

by J.J_loves_MJ Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:59 am

sammymj wrote:the below is just my speculation

ps: this is my first post. i hope that you'll not bash me or call me ridiculous.

it's becoming very clear to us that michael jackson MAY have employed a double.

to me, the difference btw a double and an impersonator is that a double shared the same " soul" as michael jackson whereas the impersonator was merely acting- an impersonation. hence, both jonathan and joe could had very possibly been related by blood. to account for their striking resemblance that one finds it difficult to tell them apart, they could possibly had been siblings. we're reminded that marlon jackson had a twin brother called brandon jackson. it must also be noted that marlon is just a year older than michael jackson.

marlon jackson-1957

michael joseph/joe jackson was born in -1958

INTRODUCING JOSEPH

marlon jackson-1957

michael joseph/joe jackson was born in -1958

Marlon Jackson never had a twin brother. It was a cover-up by the Jackson family.
Michael Joe Jackson and Michael Joseph Jackson were twin brothers who both had villigito. Their date of birth was 1958 in their birth certificates. Since Marlon was a year older than Michael, the Jackson family thought that there would be fewer suspicions in making Marlon the twin instead. Michael Joe Jackson was the one who did the first moonwalk.

Lisa Marie married Joseph Jackson. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DKMAtWEm-M&feature=related )
There are actually photos of Joseph without his eyeliner on and i must say that his eyes look really different from that of the thriller Joe. During their marriage, Lisa Marie and Joseph frequented orphanages and it seemed that Joseph had a deep capacity of caring and love for children. Ever since Michael married Lisa marie, he started to look different. He was more "asexual" looking. if you know what i mean..
It also seemed that Joseph was taller than Joe. That was when all the " wacko jacko" nicknames started coming out.

youtube vid of a collection of pics of lisa marie and joseph:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54DC6OufSaA

i also remembered that lisa marie mentioned that michael hardly let anyone enter his world and see the person whom he really is. it appears that joseph had a really complicated past when lisa marie mentioned that she could not stop him from certain destructive behaviour and that he was like a boy angry at the world. Why was he angry? Had Joseph been abandoned or neglected by his parents earlier on in his childhood?
This reminds me of the song " Childhood".

Before you judge me, try hard to love me,
Look within your heart then ask,
Have you seen my Childhood?
People say I'm strange that way
'Cause I love such elementary things,
It's been my fate to compensate,
For the Childhood I've never known...

Personality Differences

both joseph and joe lost their childhood in different ways and perhaps regressed it in different ways too. Joseph was the more practical of the 2 and wanted to have children to regress himself. Joe liked to live in his own fantasy world.

Joseph badly wanted to have kids and hence Joseph married Debbie Rowe. Joe, on the other hand, invited children to stay with him and got into all kinds of trouble.
it seems that Joseph is the taller and more caucasian-looking of the 2

Joseph really enjoys chewing gum all the time. Joseph was a good friend of Elizabeth Taylor ( as for Joe, i'm not too sure)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qergecgMmaY&feature=related

It was Joseph doing the rebuttal video for the Bashir documentary and not Joe. Evidently, Joseph seemed to be more domineering than Joe.
Perhaps, Joe suffered from lupus and was in chronic pain. He turned to painkillers and simply could not perform on stage anymore.
Joe was alot more softspoken than Joseph and seemed to be awkward most of the time. He was more masculine-looking.
omar bhatti could had possibly been joseph jackson's son.

most importantly, joseph spoke much more emotionally and dramatically than joe. he gestulates alot while joe was always withdrawn and spoke slowly.

COMPARE THEIR EYES IN THE SAME YEAR

1995 interview( JOSEPH); mentions that he has 9 siblings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM_MjkCjGQQ&feature=related

TOP 1995 message( JOE):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKn-0Ey4T54

1996 interview( Joe):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kgBL3UVUXU

1992 interview( Joseph):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQjMy0JnDK4&feature=related

:
their eyes are clearly very different.

AROUND THE SAME TIME TO ADDRESS CHILD MOLESTATION CHARGES:

Michael Jackson - 60 Minutes ( JOE):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQwY4ll1Kfc&feature=related

Michael Jackson-geraldo ( JOE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dI46XY8S9E&feature=related

it seems that joe is always the one involved in clearing up child molestation accuses.

CHANGES STARTED IN 1991- DANGEROUS ALBUM

- no more Joe but Joseph instead.

Black and white mv( JOSEPH):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyBs6-cmFvQ

Do you remember mv( JOSEPH):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk85M68MRh4

Will You Be There? live performance( JOSEPH):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck1nWeOwtDQ&feature=related

did anyone realise that joseph is very caucasian looking?

Barbara Walter's interview( JOSEPH):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRV_zpRiyqc&feature=related

MICHAEL JOE JACKSON'S SUPPOSED LAST BILLIE JEAN PERFORMANCE( 30th anniversary special):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l74Y_p6or00&feature=related

i personally feel that this was his best performance.
besides, michael seems to have "shrunk" back to his original height

On July 7, 2009, Marlon and his family offered their final eulogies for Michael, saying he was the "soul" of the family, and breaking down as he tearfully addressed the crowd: "Maybe now Michael, they will leave you alone" and "I would like for you to give our brother, my twin brother, Brandon, a hug for me" Marlon fought back tears as he said "Everytime you hugged us Michael we told you we love you and your response always was I love you more. I love you Michael and I miss you

- who was doing the concert tours? ( i believe mostly joe)
- then what happened to Michael Joseph Jackson?( dead or alive?)
- where is Michael Joe Jackson now? Why did he let his double perform in his place?

I completely dissagree. Michael Jackson is only one person. Michael created Michael Joseph Jackson name for the stage even if he didnt use also his middle name. Michael Joe Jackson is his legal name. There arent 2 real persons, there is only one person with two identities. Michael Joseph Jackson exists only on paper, the one who died on June 25th. The real one, Michael Joe Jackson is still alive, and is our beloved Michael. I am not surprised why they selled all his legal documents.Its for his protection until the hoax will be revealed.

by sammymj Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:07 am

mj_fan_for_40_years,

that's really interesting. haha. i dont really frequent this forum though and dont see any of the ads that you've described. do notify me if you do see more. i'm really curious.

by MJSmile4Us Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:09 am

I don't know if this is any help but I saw ET recently where they showed Michael swearing under an oath and when he was asked his full name, he replied Michael JOSEPH Jackson and even spelt it out word by word..

by GirlInTheMirror1 Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:23 am

MJSmile4Us wrote:I don't know if this is any help but I saw ET recently where they showed Michael swearing under an oath and when he was asked his full name, he replied Michael JOSEPH Jackson and even spelt it out word by word..

Could you find the link again?

by MJSmile4Us Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:30 am

GirlInTheMirror1 wrote:
MJSmile4Us wrote:I don't know if this is any help but I saw ET recently where they showed Michael swearing under an oath and when he was asked his full name, he replied Michael JOSEPH Jackson and even spelt it out word by word..

Could you find the link again?

I am really sorry but I caught him saying his full name on ET on tv (this Tuessay), which was a part of ET special. Michael's manager Dieter Weisner debunking Michael's complaint about spider bites as needle marks. Michael said his full name when he was sworn under an oath when he was facing charges in 2003 (prior to child molestation chrages) by his business partner..

by GirlInTheMirror1 Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:34 am

Oh ok.
This is weird. I don´t think there were two Michaels, as I said, but it´s weird anyway, with the name..

by MJSmile4Us Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:41 am

GirlIntheMirror1:

I found the link!! I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_smile

http://www.etonline.com/index.html?page=3&tag=

It's the one titled 'Michael Jackson's formermanager breaks his silence'..

Tonight, ET has never-before-seen video of Michael Jackson under oath, a side of the late King of Pop rarely seen -- and his former manager Dieter Weisner breaks his silence about it!

by sammymj Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:41 am

that's v. interesting mjsmile4us. i'll go check it out now

to add on:

1996 was a stormy year for Michael Jackson.

1 ) January 1996 wrongful termination lawsuit:

2) on January 18, 1996, Michael Joseph Jackson and Lisa Marie were divorced.

1996 lawsuit deposition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8_JhGAGZLE

1996 Brit Awards:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydb-w6xvGrU

How did Michael look so different within such a short span of time?
- Did he go for surgery?
- Was it someone else?

yet in 1997,

Ghost mv:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtJ6NGsIW5Emichael looks the same as he did in the 96 deposition video.

by sammymj Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:49 am

if i'm not wrong, the video doesnt include the oath portion. haha

by MJSmile4Us Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:54 am

sammymj wrote:if i'm not wrong, the video doesnt include the oath portion. haha

arrrgh I've looked everywhere for the video but it's hard getting it I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_cry

but I am going to keep on looking..

I am googling with the title Entertainment Tonight Michael Jackson Oath and is going thru each site that came up one by one...

by sammymj Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:59 am

alright thank you! i checked it out on youtube too and they cut off the oath portion too

by sammymj Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:04 am

Now lets come to 2003 and the LWMJ documentary.
I am sure many of you have seen this but lets take a step back and look
at these two different pieces of footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7RDCDLLIm8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxzhD6jgNIY

To
me they look like different people. The person in the second piece of
footage looks bloated and while not fat, looks bigger in shape to the
person who is the first video. While one can argue that this is shot
over 8 months and a person will change, if you watch the whole thing
you will see that there are several times thoughout the whole thing
where Michael looks different. I would urge you to watch it again with
fresh eyes! It's almost like Michael is constantly changing.

credits: rach

i originally wanted to post these 2 videos too. i have never read rach's theory before but when i did minutes ago, it just totally amazed me that we spotted 2 different michaels in the Martin Bashir documentary.

by Human_nature Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:09 am

by MJSmile4Us Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:21 am

I found it...FINALLY I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_smile

Michael says his full name from 0:25;

by J.J_loves_MJ Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:35 am

MJSmile4Us wrote:I found it...FINALLY Michael says his full name from 0:25;

If Michael said in this footage that his full name is Michael JOSEPH Jackson, then what is all about with those documents where it says JOE? The laws cannot be broken, in legal documents it must be written the full LEGAL name.

by MJSmile4Us Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:40 am

Although I hate saying this myself but those documents that listed Michael JOE Jackson would not be legit, maybe? I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_scratch

because Michael would have been in serious trouble if he lied about his full name when under an oath...

by icy55 Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:43 am

MJSmile4Us wrote:I found it...FINALLY Michael says his full name from 0:25;

SERIOUSLY! Leave Michael alone! For God's Sake! URGH! I hate the insider... And MJ's "friends". How could they!

by Human_nature Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:51 am

icy55 wrote:
MJSmile4Us wrote:I found it...FINALLY Michael says his full name from 0:25;

SERIOUSLY! Leave Michael alone! For God's Sake! URGH! I hate the insider... And MJ's "friends". How could they!

I think now..nobody will leave him alone, not here, and not the media and friends...
The sad truth about "humanity" I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_sad

by beverleyflossy Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:00 am

have you noticed at 2.44 the reporter says Michael Joe Jackson

by MJSmile4Us Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:12 am

beverleyflossy wrote:have you noticed at 2.44 the reporter says Michael Joe Jackson

yes and Michael didn't correct the man who said it too I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_question

- does this mean that they, JOE and JOSEPH, are indeed the same and that's why Michael used them interchangeably?? I think i discovered who joseph was Icon_scratch

by sammymj Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:14 am

- Michael Joe Jackson faced child molestation charges in 1993

- Michael Joe jackson went to rehab in 1993

- Michael joseph Jackson started making more appearances from 93 onwards.

- Michael Joseph Jackson married Lisa Marie in 1994

- Michael Joe Jackson faced a lawsuit in early Jan 1996

- Michael Joseph Jackson divorced Lisa Marie in 1996

- Michael Joseph Jackson was the one who attended the brit awards in 96.

what happened during the rehabilitation?

by J.J_loves_MJ Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:18 am

beverleyflossy wrote:have you noticed at 2.44 the reporter says Michael Joe Jackson

Yes... I noticed that. And I know why. Michael didnt said his legal name, only his full name which can be even his stage name.

Although I hate saying this myself but those documents that listed Michael JOE Jackson would not be legit, maybe? because Michael would have been in serious trouble if he lied about his full name when under an oath...

Not really. I think that those documents are legit.And if there are legit, Michael wouldnt be in trouble. Joseph could be his pseudonime. Keep in mind that the reporter DIDNT ask : can you tell you full LEGAL name? He asked only for his full name.

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