Michael JOE Jackson is NOT Michael JOSEPH Jackson at all?O.o

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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:56 pm

neverlandsfairy wrote:I dont mean that he changed his name, im implying maybe it was the other person who died, ie imposter, as i said you can only change it once in life....from my research at the moment legally changing name in life would be valid on death certificate, as in a married woman her birth certificate would be maiden name but death cert would be married name if she was still married, also gender reassignment people.

Im starting to think that too, and as I said in the other post, it´d just be a circus about the other one death, but not really a fraud. So it will turn on a look alike decoy case with similar name.What would be ironic, but not a fraud of any type.[/quote]

It would seem so, im not a legal person and do not know legalities at all but it makes sense, and i respect your judgment being in the legal field, thanyou so much for verifying this....im so happy....i think we have cracked it...
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Post by Liberian.Girl. on Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:57 pm

I'm proposing to Annie tomorrow. :U She is made of Win and Logic. We will have beautiful logic babies together.
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Post by neverlandsfairy on Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:57 pm

Deb wrote:
Liberian.Girl. wrote:....

BRB, DIEING OF ABSOLUTE HAPPY.

me too!!

3!

Cause being a lawyer, you have no idea how that damn document yesterday vanished me, but this evidence would debunk that completly.

To find the entire truth we just now need to stick with peterpanswendy findings about the BC lacks of information;
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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:58 pm

Liberian.Girl. wrote:I'm proposing to Annie tomorrow. :U She is made of Win and Logic. We will have beautiful logic babies together.

Hahah, so what do u think, do u buy it??
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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:00 pm

i THINK THE BC ARE FAKE, MAYBE ITS WHAT CELEBS DO, MAYBE ITS FOR SOME SORT OF SECURITY, TMZ DID HAVE THEM FAST....I CANT SEE ANYONE PHOTOCOPYING THEM OUT FOR THE MEDIA FOR WHAT REASON??

IM GONNA LEAVE YOU TO IT NOW, AND PRAY THAT WHEN I RETURN TOMOROW NO ONE HAS DEBUNKED IT...THANKYOU ALL AGAIN...
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Post by neverlandsfairy on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:09 pm

Deb wrote:i THINK THE BC ARE FAKE, MAYBE ITS WHAT CELEBS DO, MAYBE ITS FOR SOME SORT OF SECURITY, TMZ DID HAVE THEM FAST....I CANT SEE ANYONE PHOTOCOPYING THEM OUT FOR THE MEDIA FOR WHAT REASON??

IM GONNA LEAVE YOU TO IT NOW, AND PRAY THAT WHEN I RETURN TOMOROW NO ONE HAS DEBUNKED IT...THANKYOU ALL AGAIN...

On other topic I also said that perhaps the BC released were indeed fake for security measures.Cause you know trial records are documents you can check, cause they are from public interest, so they can not content alteration on them.However BC´s are for private concerns. And the only way to verify its really autenticity is by the paper´s texture, what clearly we can not do on a computer screen.

And if Debbie´s name is spelled wrongly , and plus Prince´s one too.So yes the doc is fake.

The irony on it will be:the autopsy will be legit, but belongin to someone else!

Or in another perspective invalid, since its not Mike´s Joe one. Suspect
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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:22 pm

Ok before i go iv just looked at the birth certificates, they are both issued on 30th June 2009 this is because when the media or whoever got copies of them from registrations dept this is the issue date..

On the first certificate, it does not comply because Prince name is missing he is registered as Michael Joseph Jackson Jr.... Debbies middle name is spelt Jeanne and is correct on this.

On the second certificate, Paris Michael Katherine Jackson is correct but Debbies middle name is spelt as Jean which is wrong...

Therefore strong discrepancies in both certificates which have to be exact, they have to show correct information.
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Post by neverlandsfairy on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:28 pm

Therefore strong discrepancies in both certificates which have to be exact, they have to show correct information.[/quote]

Precisely.

Also the issued date is not about when they were assigned, but copied,it means to be a supposedly copy from its original.What clearly they are not, since their content have lack of main information, and wrong names on.

So while we really got it debunked, I still stick with the BC fake theory.


Last edited by neverlandsfairy on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:31 pm

The imposter theory makes sense because I know if I wanted to fake my death, I would list my fake DC with my middle name as MARIA instead of MARIE (my real middle name) so it is totally possible that this could be a fake DC. And those birth certificates are totally invalid (wrong first name and a wrong middle name, no listed races, etc etc) , like you guys said, it could be for security reasons but Michael's middle name is totally throwing me off.
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Post by Guest on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:32 pm

but since when could the media just go and say "hey I want a copy of Prince and Paris' birth certificates, THANKS A LOT!!!"
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Post by bibi on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:33 pm

I noticed that it says JOSPeh on the will too...not only the death certificate..
here's the will:

http://image.stirileprotv.ro/media/document//60319703.pdf
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Post by neverlandsfairy on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:55 pm

bibi wrote:I noticed that it says JOSPeh on the will too...not only the death certificate..
here's the will:

http://image.stirileprotv.ro/media/document//60319703.pdf

Yes I know. And this can be the reason why Katherine keeps complaining about the will.What means, to be an invalid will as well.
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Post by STARbaybeeRoqk on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:30 pm

Liberian.Girl. wrote:
Rachel wrote:I would freak out at the thought of an autopsy report on some rag site as well. You saw how I freaked tonight when I thought an "autopsy" picture has been leaked.

I guess I just figure that Michael was always so private that this would be hs worst nightmare. I also didn't like the comments on MJHD about how maybe the BC's for the children were fake. I am begging people not to bring the children into this.

I know we want the truth but I think at times we may go too far.....

i know idk how all his personal documents got out like that...i posted something only with his will though and everyone has seen that i posted to show that michael joe and joseph are the same person
i think there the same person...its really unlikely that there not..and yea sometimes people do go to far about posting things...how did his childrens BC's get all over the internet anyways that is personal information...they should take them off..birth certificates are only used for personal things hopefully they take them down...the jackson family probably knows nothing about that

and yea its waay better on this site sometimes its hard to say what you feel on mjhd because some people will shoot you down...its waaaaay different here i love it here even though i come every once in a while...i like mjhd chat though those people are cool the ones that dont get on the chat sometimes can be a lil rude


There's a reason I rarely go on MJDH. :/ And well, here, we at least try to respect is.. but if it's already on the 'net, there's not much we could do but learn from it.
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Post by Give.In.To.Me on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:39 pm

Sorry...I edited because someone already pointed Debbies middle name incorrectly spelled.


Last edited by Give.In.To.Me on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Give.In.To.Me on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:48 pm

I'd also like to add that during my crazy custody battle with my ex-husband the courts accidently reported my sons middle name as "Matt" instead of "Matthew". We could not continue on and I could not collect my child support until the name was officially changed and BC was used as prove for identity
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Post by bibi on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:51 pm

oh and i was just watching that movie "the jacksons:an american dream" and when katherine names baby michael she repeats 2 times: michael joe jackson michael joe jackson....NO JOSEPH!!


Last edited by bibi on Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by STARbaybeeRoqk on Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:09 am

okay bibi you just changed my whole mind on this...
where did joseph come from?
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:16 am

oh wow, bibi. that explains a lot!!! hmm..
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Post by Human_nature on Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:17 am

ok so I don't know if someone else noticed, but in Prince & Paris birth certificates, something don't fit.

The name of the mother, watch (screen captures from documents) :
+++ prince birth certificate name : Michael Joseph Jackson Jr. ...hmm ?? Really , so why his name is PRINCE ?

ok now about Debbie , in "Prince" birth certificate her name :
Deborah JEANNE Rowe

For Paris birth certificate :

Deborah JEAN Rowe

And in Michael's will :

Debbie = Deborah JEAN Rowe

Children's name : PRINCE Michael Jackson Jr. , Paris Michael Katherine Jackson.

ok, now screen captures :

Michael JOE Jackson is NOT Michael JOSEPH Jackson at all?O.o - Page 2 68666205
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Michael JOE Jackson is NOT Michael JOSEPH Jackson at all?O.o - Page 2 69610120
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:23 am

yeah I pointed out the inconsistencies in the birth certificates, but now that you have compared them to the will...hmmm...well that once again makes a HUGE difference...
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Post by STARbaybeeRoqk on Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:31 am

so which one is real
i think paris's is the real one
stating whats typed on the will....jean
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:42 am

idk because even though the middle name JEAN is the same in the will and on Paris' BC, she is listed as PARIS-MICHAEL on the BC and PARIS MICHAEL in the will. You may find this as something slight, but i official documents like this, especially a WILL which involves assets and estate, etc, they have to be EXACT because the slightest "oops" could cause it to be void. I personally think this was done for a reason, I just don't know which documents are correct and which aren't so it is hard for me to develop a theory. I also personally think that his middle name is JOE lol, but IDK.
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:47 am

This just proves that OMER is not Michaels sone. But we all knew that

Michael Joseph Jackson.

Thats Mikes name.
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Post by Silence on Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:35 am

neverlandsfairy wrote:
Rachel wrote:I feel a bit uncomfortable with Michael's passport and SSN all on the internet. I know we are trying to look at this from all angles but it seems so intrusive.

I wouldn't imagine he would like all of those documents surfacing now. I know I wouldn't. Sad

I know what you meant sweetie, but we need to check for another angle.If it really contents discrepancies on his name, also implies that no fraud had been commited.However we are checking their veracity to just figure out a mystery, and not to bring hits for its website.So somehow its less bad than have his "resume autopsy record" displayed on a gossip website. lol! By far this one of the supposedly best evidences ever!

I totally disagree.
Doing stuff like this is just as worse as the things paparazzi and the media did to him.

what are we doing ?
sitting in front of a screen and playing net detective.
digging deep in michael's private life making documents available to a billion of people ?


once again: the chance that mj is alive is like 0,1 % and not the other way round. so all research on the net should be done with respect to him, his family, his kids. just imagine in a year or so we all accepted his death... still everything that has been posted here will then be available to the public through website caches etc.

imagine paris, blanket and prince michael reading all this. reading
stuff like "oh the tears were not real", that their aunts and uncles
are liars, etc..... this site has already lost any respect to mj and
his family though you all think that you are the real fans... no you're
not!

pleaaaase realize that the net is not real life. NOONE will find out anything through the internet. UNLESS there will be someone who knows what happened first hand and will post it somewhere.

all the internet research is totally useless and leading in the totally wrong direction cause there simply is not any information on the net that could be hepful to know what happened on june 25th. only speculation.

the search has to take place in real life otherwise this all is just a silly hobby

sorry for being so directly but this site has nothing to do with research anymore it's just there to deny reality with mostly very stupid ideas. now ban me if you want..... but you know that I am right
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Post by beverleyflossy on Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:40 am

i posted this in an earlier thread when the coroners paper came out, just though that it could also have a place here,i think it fits into the line of thinking that we are having at the moment....
""""this might sound a little bit far fetched but i got to thinking that the press release only stated that it was Michael Jackson aged fifty, no date of birth, no place of residence, nothing that actually points to our hero,could be any Michael Jackson. i think that omitting these facts has given them a life line, and when everything comes out they can turn round and say "well we were talking about Michael Jackson who lives at no1 Rosebud lane and not the famous King of Pop,its your own faults for being so nosey"
I propably talking a load of crap here but it just entered my head so i had to get it out, scratch""""""
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Post by phoenix on Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:53 am

do you remember Elvis? it was the SAME story with his false spelled second name on his grave.....the history is really going in circles
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Post by EarthAngel90 on Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:28 am

Does it matter what is name really is ??? .. everyone knows him as Michael Joseph Jackson ... I.D.N.W. is such a big deal ???!!! ....
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Post by sunrise on Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:58 am

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Post by silvy on Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:35 am

Wow you got somethin there!
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Post by neverlandsfairy on Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:21 am

So we are really finding a loophole on the autopsy resume record?

And once again I want to remark the BC could be fake for security reasons, while the court one: never!Cause if you state the wrong name on a PUBLIC open to consult court document, you can literaly be sending someone else to jail.

good work dectetives.
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Post by ishealive on Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:57 am

Neverlandsfairy this is a brilliant find. It's really got us all thinking.
It fits into annies theory aswell, I wonder are we finally figuring this out...
Thank god we have a lawyer on the forum.
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Post by neverlandsfairy on Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:05 am

ishealive wrote:Neverlandsfairy this is a brilliant find. It's really got us all thinking.
It fits into annies theory aswell, I wonder are we finally figuring this out...
Thank god we have a lawyer on the forum.

Ty, tough the documents finding credits go to Hope and Mysteryangel777 on MJHD, im just matter helping to figure out the mystery behind, with my legal skills. Smile And I really pray for us to have found a big hole on this case.

No real name no fraud!
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Post by ilprincipe on Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:15 am

That's good news...

well done Smile

Way to go!
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Post by Another.Part.Of.Me on Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:27 am

Just to clarify something.
Michael's eldest son - Prince - is not actually named Prince. He was born and named Michael Joseph Jackson Jr. His legal/birth name is not Prince.
Michael began calling/nicknaming him 'Prince' because he said that when he was born he looked just like Katherine's father who is named Prince Scruse.

This is how he came to be known as Prince - but it is not a legal name nor is it his birth name.

When his second son was born in 2002 - HE was officially and legally named Prince Michael Joseph Jackson II on the birth certificate - although he is nicknamed Blanket.

Hope that helps,
x
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:19 am

If people on here think we are invading privacy then you should not add to the thread...the whole idea of this forum is DEATH HOAX, and this is one of the best leads we have had, why not play detective is this not the idea, or i cant think why this forum should be operating....we have not gone through his personal stuff in his house or his trashcan, so please the ones who are moaning just dont post on this thread,.....

HOAX DEATH means we have to be detective to get to the bottom of it....i personally cannot see the harm to documents that have been on the internet already before we came into being...

This is only my opinion im sorry if i offend anyone, let the people on this thread carry on doing a great job, you know who you are...
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:24 am

Just a little bit of information....as someone already said re Elvis hoax death, the name AARON when his real name is ARON...also JOHN BRANCA was Priscilla Presleys lawyer and helped her make the Presley estate the success it is today....John Branca was fired twice by Michael Jackson but brought back weeks before his death, he is as you all know one of the executors of the Jackson estate!!
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:36 am

@sunrise good job this states true name....this is important its court documents

1:
” True Name: Michael Joe Jackson “
http://www.sbscpublicaccess.or…..lamend.pdf
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Post by DreamsComeTrue on Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:24 am

If anyone post it allready, sorry!
This is from courttranscripts 2005.

1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA BARBARA
3 SANTA MARIA BRANCH; COOK STREET DIVISION
4 DEPARTMENT SM-2 HON. RODNEY S. MELVILLE, JUDGE
5
6
7 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF )
8 CALIFORNIA, )
9 Plaintiff, )
10 -vs- ) No. 1133603
11 MICHAEL JOE JACKSON, )
12 Defendant. )
13
14
15
16 REPORTER’S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
17
18 MONDAY, MARCH 7, 2005
19
20 8:30 A.M.
21
22 (PAGES 960 THROUGH 996)
23
24
25
26
27 REPORTED MICHELE MATTSON McNEIL, RPR, CRR, CSR #3304
28 BY: Official Court Reporter 960
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:46 am

Zoom in on this i dont know how to upload a pic, its his mowtown id card, he signed it Michael JOE Jackson

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3739429

Everything before his death seems to be Joe, but since his death its Joseph....ie, will, death certificate, coroner statement...the only thing throwing me is the kids birth certificates but they have mispelling in Debbies name too which cant be right!!
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Post by Another.Part.Of.Me on Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:52 am

This makes sense - 'Joseph' only appeared after June 25th.
Granted the 2002 will says 'Joseph' too but that only appeared after June 25th - and by all counts there should be a 2007 will somewhere because Michael updated his will every 5 years.

'Joseph's' appearance means there's no fraud or illegality - it's a technicality but it means the fine line between something legal and something illegal.

The Debbie Jean/Jeanne thing does throw me slightly too because I don't know why they would mis-spell it on one and not the other. This [the correct name] is something that is presumably checked because Americans have medical insurance and have to fill in their insurance details when they get to hospital for treatment etc.
Surely Debbie would have noted the mispelling of her own name on her own child's birth certificate. There's something slightly off there.
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:03 am

@AnotherPartOfMe, i totally agree, we have had no official docs from coroners just a note really, the will well you said it about that, no hospital official ever made a statement, they normally do to say they recieved said person and they passed away at time, etc....The body being on show in the helicopter to make us believe, im thinking Michael Joseph Jackson deceased because he didnt exist, Michael Joe Jackson survived and im thinking along the theory as we have said before, the whole thing is a set up to rid these doctor feelgoods, i think its been an inquiry for years and this way MJ gets to retire from public life and the police get an excuse for all these arrests...I think it has been going on for years...Most celebs have an equity name anyway, ie stage name...Tom Cruise isnt really Tom Cruise, etc so i think this could be the reason for double identity....just my thoughts.
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Post by phoenix on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:05 am

Deb wrote:Just a little bit of information....as someone already said re Elvis hoax death, the name AARON when his real name is ARON...also JOHN BRANCA was Priscilla Presleys lawyer and helped her make the Presley estate the success it is today....John Branca was fired twice by Michael Jackson but brought back weeks before his death, he is as you all know one of the executors of the Jackson estate!!

yes i already mentioned it earlier, you are right lol
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:07 am

phoenix wrote:
Deb wrote:Just a little bit of information....as someone already said re Elvis hoax death, the name AARON when his real name is ARON...also JOHN BRANCA was Priscilla Presleys lawyer and helped her make the Presley estate the success it is today....John Branca was fired twice by Michael Jackson but brought back weeks before his death, he is as you all know one of the executors of the Jackson estate!!

yes i already mentioned it earlier, you are right lol

Sorry i never seen it, my apologies, all i seen is the moaning of some people, haha, i think its the best lead we ever had, we mustnt give up!!
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Post by Another.Part.Of.Me on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:07 am

@Deb - Exactly.
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Post by neverlandsfairy on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:10 am

[
'Joseph's' appearance means there's no fraud or illegality - it's a technicality but it means the fine line between something legal and something illegal.

Its exactly what I´ve been saying since yesterday, for sure will be a circus, irony, a joke from destiny, but not a fraud.This is the blanket space we needed.In other words the autopsy resume is legit, but might belong to someone else!So for Michael Joe Jackson its invalid!

The Debbie Jean/Jeanne thing does throw me slightly too because I don't know why they would mis-spell it on one and not the other.

I believe that the BC what were shown on TMZ are fake print, since different of a court document that is opened to community to check, BC are from private concerns.Just family members can request it.So: Or someone from the Jacksons leaked it, or its really fake.

And
different again from an opened proccess, the only way for us to verify the veracity of the BCs is by checking the paper texture.What we can not do forsure, staring a picture of it.So , seems that the BCs are fake,while the court records are jenuine!Dunno if you got what I meant?


This [the correct name] is something that is presumably checked because Americans have medical insurance and have to fill in their insurance details when they get to hospital for treatment etc.
Surely Debbie would have noted the mispelling of her own name on her own child's birth certificate. There's something slightly off there.
[/quote]

I do think so


Last edited by neverlandsfairy on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:10 am

This is the most believable theory to me

PT Barnum: “a fake of a fake is not a fraud” ?
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Post by neverlandsfairy on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:12 am

Ditto.

The importance of this theory is:its not based on matter supppositions,but on real documents and evidences!


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Post by phoenix on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:12 am

Another.Part.Of.Me wrote:This makes sense - 'Joseph' only appeared after June 25th.
Granted the 2002 will says 'Joseph' too but that only appeared after June 25th - and by all counts there should be a 2007 will somewhere because Michael updated his will every 5 years.

'Joseph's' appearance means there's no fraud or illegality - it's a technicality but it means the fine line between something legal and something illegal.

The Debbie Jean/Jeanne thing does throw me slightly too because I don't know why they would mis-spell it on one and not the other. This [the correct name] is something that is presumably checked because Americans have medical insurance and have to fill in their insurance details when they get to hospital for treatment etc.
Surely Debbie would have noted the mispelling of her own name on her own child's birth certificate. There's something slightly off there.

i am not involved in that kind of things but you are visiting law school- so does it make any difference if he is joe or joseph? i mean the idea ist that if we call him joseph than we mean diffeent person but what we need to concider is probably that the number of his medical insurance and his birth date remain the same. i know my name is written differently on my medical insurance card and in my id card and different again on my student-id (lol i know strange but its true) but its still me- because i have always the same signature and my birthdate is the same (oh i hope you still can follow- i somehow have the feeling i am not explaining it very well lol) however i think it does not make difference as long as his signature stays the same right? okay you can fake signature too anyways :-/
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Post by Another.Part.Of.Me on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:14 am

Right on girls - we have a fresh lead, and another lease of hope. It all ties in with Annie's theory and it looks like we may be finally piecing it all together.

@Deb - Love the Barnum quote, I still think he plays a fundamental role here although some do dismiss him.
Keep at it, I'm popping off to bed for a couple of hours (I know it's 5pm here but sleep is always good lol). I'll talk to you all later, Love you xoxoxo
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Post by Grace on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:14 am

.


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